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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > B58 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Is it possible to retrofit the Supra/M340i HPFP?
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      12-05-2019, 04:19 PM   #67
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What do we think the results would be putting the TU pump onto a OTS mapped Stage 2 BM3 car?

Fueling all over the place?
Marginal power increase?
More reliability if running the E30 Stg2 Map?

Im aware that the potential would need a custom map. Will be interesting to see what the stock turbo will do with the correct fueling on 93 Ron
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      12-05-2019, 05:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
What do we think the results would be putting the TU pump onto a OTS mapped Stage 2 BM3 car?

Fueling all over the place?
Marginal power increase?
More reliability if running the E30 Stg2 Map?

Im aware that the potential would need a custom map. Will be interesting to see what the stock turbo will do with the correct fueling on 93 Ron
From what I have been told by pure they aren't seeing very large increases in power by adding more ethanol beyond e-40.
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      12-05-2019, 05:08 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
What do we think the results would be putting the TU pump onto a OTS mapped Stage 2 BM3 car?

Fueling all over the place?
Marginal power increase?
More reliability if running the E30 Stg2 Map?

Im aware that the potential would need a custom map. Will be interesting to see what the stock turbo will do with the correct fueling on 93 Ron
There would be no point in getting a HPFP for OTS maps tbh. Only thing you'd see is better rail pressure.
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      12-05-2019, 05:17 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
What do we think the results would be putting the TU pump onto a OTS mapped Stage 2 BM3 car?

Fueling all over the place?
Marginal power increase?
More reliability if running the E30 Stg2 Map?

Im aware that the potential would need a custom map. Will be interesting to see what the stock turbo will do with the correct fueling on 93 Ron
I'd expect to see excessively high fuel rail pressures as that pump is designed for a 5000 PSI system and ours are 3000 PSI. AFR's would be the same.

No power increase, until you get a custom map with more boost, which would be possible now with additional fuel rail pressure/flow stability
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      12-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #71
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Interesting, Im tempted to buy it and see if the stock turbo will do 450whp on pump gas
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      12-05-2019, 06:37 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
Interesting, Im tempted to buy it and see if the stock turbo will do 450whp on pump gas
I'm very interested in this as well . I don't ever want to mess with meth or e85 and would ideally like to leave the car at just a tune+DPs+maybe a pump if it's worth it. Wondering how much power we could get with just a B58tu pump and a custom tune on 91 octane.
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      12-05-2019, 07:03 PM   #73
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No need or point in getting a HPFP upgrade to run normal gas on the stock turbo.
It's not even needed to run 98 ron with a Pure Stage 2 (original version).
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      12-05-2019, 07:16 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure View Post
I'm very interested in this as well . I don't ever want to mess with meth or e85 and would ideally like to leave the car at just a tune+DPs+maybe a pump if it's worth it. Wondering how much power we could get with just a B58tu pump and a custom tune on 91 octane.
But then do you really want to max the stock turbo out long term? You might as well upgrade the turbo and run it at a lower psi. Just my thoughts. I'm like you, wanting to stick with a tune + dp + stock turbo. Stage 2 91 is the limit for me lol.
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      12-05-2019, 07:20 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
No need or point in getting a HPFP upgrade to run normal gas on the stock turbo.
It's not even needed to run 98 ron with a Pure Stage 2 (original version).
I was under the impression that you ran out of fuel on the stock turbo? bootmod3 doesnt have a very high psi target for the turbo and i always assumed that was due to fueling limitations
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      12-05-2019, 08:33 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
I was under the impression that you ran out of fuel on the stock turbo? bootmod3 doesnt have a very high psi target for the turbo and i always assumed that was due to fueling limitations
You're knock limited with straight 93 and stock turbo. Your run out of octane before fuel pressure becomes a problem
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      12-05-2019, 08:50 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
You're knock limited with straight 93 and stock turbo. Your run out of octane before fuel pressure becomes a problem
Exactly. My understanding is that the advantages of the upgraded fuel pump is higher fueling volume to run higher ethanol blends. The additional volume is needed because although ethanol has a higher resistance to pre-ignition at higher compression, it has a lower stoich value and therefore requires more volume. If you don't plan to run any ethanol, don't really need additional volume. But you won't be able to max out the stock turbo before the engine pulls timing.

Here to learn so if I've got something wrong here, call me out.
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      12-05-2019, 09:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SÁpreme View Post
Exactly. My understanding is that the advantages of the upgraded fuel pump is higher fueling volume to run higher ethanol blends. The additional volume is needed because although ethanol has a higher resistance to pre-ignition at higher compression, it has a lower stoich value and therefore requires more volume. If you don't plan to run any ethanol, don't really need additional volume. But you won't be able to max out the stock turbo before the engine pulls timing.

Here to learn so if I've got something wrong here, call me out.
nope your spot on with the ethanol/race fuels needing to use more volume.

I wish in the UK it was easy to have E85 pumps, for a country so keen on going green it piss's me off we dont have any lol!
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      12-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
nope your spot on with the ethanol/race fuels needing to use more volume.

I wish in the UK it was easy to have E85 pumps, for a country so keen on going green it piss's me off we dont have any lol!
I live in South Dakota and although it's a horrible frigid wasteland with almost no redeeming qualities we do have easy access to E85 at every gas station!
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      12-05-2019, 10:08 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
You're knock limited with straight 93 and stock turbo. Your run out of octane before fuel pressure becomes a problem
Spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
I was under the impression that you ran out of fuel on the stock turbo? bootmod3 doesnt have a very high psi target for the turbo and i always assumed that was due to fueling limitations
That is a tuning decision by whoever made the PTF OTS maps, less boost and more timing.

My Mission Performance tune ran over 22psi (with little to no timing) with a richer AFR and didn't run out of fuel. But did feel doughier and heatsoaked.
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      12-06-2019, 03:29 AM   #81
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Found an alternative to the B58TU pump. Same price and better flow.

https://dorchengineering.com/product...-hpfp-upgrade/

Photo from Peter Oleks's post on B58 Enthusiast on Facebook, he just installed and is testing out their Stage 2 pump.

Screenshot from their site
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      12-06-2019, 05:15 AM   #82
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FYI - If you swap a TU pump on an OTS map, it won't exceed 2900psi just because of the pump. Targets should stay the same as long as the fuel pressure regulator can handle it, which it appears several people have proven our fuel system is capable.

Also, it'll support higher boost levels so even on 93 there could be gains. This is my first car where a tune targetted less than 20psi, so the hpfp would definitely support 20+. No turbo is in it's efficiency range below 20psi anyway.
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      12-06-2019, 06:38 AM   #83
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Can anyone provide links to logs, including fuel rail target and actual, where the B58TU pump has been installed and running on a regular B58 with a standard OTS MHD or BM3 tune?

Great to see some options now, other than the XDI unicorn pump.
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      12-06-2019, 08:07 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Can anyone provide links to logs, including fuel rail target and actual, where the B58TU pump has been installed and running on a regular B58 with a standard OTS MHD or BM3 tune?

Great to see some options now, other than the XDI unicorn pump.
I will be doing this, just taking forever for my pump to get here from Germany. DHL loves to tell you it's left the port, and never give you an update until the day before it's being delivered no ETA or anything.
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      12-06-2019, 09:38 AM   #85
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I will be doing this, just taking forever for my pump to get here from Germany. DHL loves to tell you it's left the port, and never give you an update until the day before it's being delivered no ETA or anything.
Just placed my order with VTT this morning, website says on backorder. Hope we both get ours soon!
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      12-06-2019, 11:00 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Can anyone provide links to logs, including fuel rail target and actual, where the B58TU pump has been installed and running on a regular B58 with a standard OTS MHD or BM3 tune?

Great to see some options now, other than the XDI unicorn pump.
We have a log in our turbo post showing the pump following stock B58 HPFP targets. The pump will do what it is told. It will follow the target rail pressure until it cannot keep up. It will NOT add more pressure just because you change the pump. People often mistake pressure, and volume for being the same, they are not.
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      12-06-2019, 04:57 PM   #87
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So some conflicting ideas about if the pump will or wont allow you to make more power on the stock turbo then.

On another note, i have seen a comment on FB about the TU pump causing damage to the cam follower when fitted to the Gen1 B58 engines, im finding it a bit hard to believe but its the first iv heard of it.
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      12-06-2019, 07:17 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by jackstrath View Post
So some conflicting ideas about if the pump will or wont allow you to make more power on the stock turbo then.

On another note, i have seen a comment on FB about the TU pump causing damage to the cam follower when fitted to the Gen1 B58 engines, im finding it a bit hard to believe but its the first iv heard of it.
If I understand correctly I think the nuance here is:
B58 with stock turbo and existing OTS tune +add the upgraded hpfp = no real additional gains.

B58 with stock turbo +add the upgraded hpfp + add custom tune= you'll see additional gains.
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