[pnosker]

I picked up a Nov 2012 production 2013 335i M Sport with the Adaptive M suspension in Europe and drove it for 1000 miles, didn't hear any odd noises or anything and the suspension blew my mind for something that came stock on a regular BMW. My daily driver is a 2008 135i with KW V2 and Swift springs in the front with camber plates and the M3 front end pieces. The 335i felt between as good as my 135i stock and my 135i with $3000 in suspension upgrades. But the killer was driving it on rough roads in Eco Pro and having almost no joltiness due to pot holes, expansion joints, etc. where my 135i would be bouncing all over the place. In sport mode you can feel them all more but the ride is still fairly comfortable yet under aggressive cornering, the Adaptive seemed to feel as perfect as I've experienced in any stock BMW including the E36/7 M Roadster, E36 M3, 135i, etc. In my opinion, it's a must-get option for someone who wants the best suspension without changing out parts and who wants a comfortable ride for long journeys.

[MikeVictor]

Originally Posted by pnosker

I picked up a Nov 2012 production 2013 335i M Sport with the Adaptive M suspension in Europe and drove it for 1000 miles, didn't hear any odd noises or anything and the suspension blew my mind for something that came stock on a regular BMW. My daily driver is a 2008 135i with KW V2 and Swift springs in the front with camber plates and the M3 front end pieces. The 335i felt between as good as my 135i stock and my 135i with $3000 in suspension upgrades. But the killer was driving it on rough roads in Eco Pro and having almost no joltiness due to pot holes, expansion joints, etc. where my 135i would be bouncing all over the place. In sport mode you can feel them all more but the ride is still fairly comfortable yet under aggressive cornering, the Adaptive seemed to feel as perfect as I've experienced in any stock BMW including the E36/7 M Roadster, E36 M3, 135i, etc. In my opinion, it's a must-get option for someone who wants the best suspension without changing out parts and who wants a comfortable ride for long journeys.

Nicely said. Came from a 135i with similar mods (H&R Springs, BMW Perf shocks, M3 sways and control arms) and I agree with what you've written here.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ks200906

I agreed with your point about that it's pretty subjective and each driver will have a preference. How technology works is very factual and rocket science. The double-blind test is not to prove that there is a difference between VDC and passive, it's more for the actual "feedback" by the driver or passenger without prior knowledge of "which is which". I bet not 100% of all drivers (not to mention passengers) can tell the differences if you don't tell them.

Just take any BMW model with same size wheels "with and without" variable damping on poor surfaces, I believe any decent driver (and passengers) will know and feel the difference.

The only really viable "testing" would be with instrumentation fitted, and measure values like pitch, roll and body frequencies. Perhaps adding assessment of differences in head toss, NVH and the like.

HighlandPete

[ks200906]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Just take any BMW model with same size wheels "with and without" variable damping on poor surfaces, I believe any decent driver (and passengers) will know and feel the difference.

The only really viable "testing" would be with instrumentation fitted, and measure values like pitch, roll and body frequencies. Perhaps adding assessment of differences in head toss, NVH and the like.

HighlandPete

Again, that's all about numbers... driver's experience and feedback cannot be quantified. You were suggesting that feedback can be subjective and now you are talking about taking real data by instruments. That's self contradicting...

Perhaps you missed my point here. Anyways...
(1) If you want to test the two suspension systems, yes, you use instruments, take some data and work out a meaningful conclusion (quantitative)
(2) If you want to test the driver's feedback on the two systems, you use a blind-test and get their feedback (qualitative)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ks200906

Again, that's all about numbers... driver's experience and feedback cannot be quantified. You were suggesting that feedback can be subjective and now you are talking about taking real data by instruments. That's self contradicting...

Perhaps you missed my point here. Anyways...
(1) If you want to test the two suspension systems, yes, you use instruments, take some data and work out a meaningful conclusion (quantitative)
(2) If you want to test the driver's feedback on the two systems, you use a blind-test and get their feedback (qualitative)

Do it whatever way you want, get data or get user feedback, I've no issue with how we arrive at a conclusion.

User feedback can be debated all day long, just as whether an 18" or 19" wheel is the best performer. Data shows the truth, but you'll hardly ever convince a driver who wants 19" wheels the car performs better on the 18" wheels. But the 'judgement' is not usually made on the whole performance, it is dominated by one or two characteristics and they come to the top of the personal choice. One will have 19" for sharper steering turn in, another 18" for better ride quality. We can debate which is best forever. But a blind test will still show up those characteristics, unless we are really dumb.

BTW, have you tried two cars, one with and one without VDC? If you have, you'll know the characteristics are different. It is like the example of the tyres, the characteristics come through.

The whole idea of VDC is to improve ride comfort and also increase driving dynamics. If that does not shine through to any particular driver, so be it. I'm not talking of the modes here, but the subtle differences which add refinement in a given setting. I can accept that to some drivers the differences don't have value, or a passive system is good enough. But that has nothing to do with the chassis itself.

BTW, I've no issues with blind testing, but not sure what that will prove when we all know the differences will be there, whatever the opinion of their benefits to the drive. Do you really feel drivers won't detect the differences if they blind test 'back to back'?

HighlandPete

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Do it whatever way you want, get data or get user feedback, I've no issue with how we arrive at a conclusion.

User feedback can be debated all day long, just as whether an 18" or 19" wheel is the best performer. Data shows the truth, but you'll hardly ever convince a driver who wants 19" wheels the car performs better on the 18" wheels. But the 'judgement' is not usually made on the whole performance, it is dominated by one or two characteristics and they come to the top of the personal choice. One will have 19" for sharper steering turn in, another 18" for better ride quality. We can debate which is best forever. But a blind test will still show up those characteristics, unless we are really dumb.

BTW, have you tried two cars, one with and one without VDC? If you have, you'll know the characteristics are different. It is like the example of the tyres, the characteristics come through.

The whole idea of VDC is to improve ride comfort and also increase driving dynamics. If that does not shine through to any particular driver, so be it. I'm not talking of the modes here, but the subtle differences which add refinement in a given setting. I can accept that to some drivers the differences don't have value, or a passive system is good enough. But that has nothing to do with the chassis itself.

BTW, I've no issues with blind testing, but not sure what that will prove when we all know the differences will be there, whatever the opinion of their benefits to the drive. Do you really feel drivers won't detect the differences if they blind test 'back to back'?

HighlandPete

They might or not. But a good test you could put two of the same back to back as a control.

[Gift2self]

Originally Posted by ManGGouste

I think it would be highly interesting to have a comparison on the behaviour on snow.
I drive often on snowy roads in winter but don't want to switch to x-drive (LSD does the job good enough).
However I'd love to have softer suspensions each time I'm driving on slippery/snowy roads.
Have you felt some substantial improvement on the snow ?

I actually find driving in Eco pro to be very effective on snow and ice as it reduces the power which increase control. I don't have xdrive and many told me I was crazy. With good winter tires I find I have better control than I used to with front wheel drive car with winter tires.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by Gift2self

I actually find driving in Eco pro to be very effective on snow and ice as it reduces the power which increase control. I don't have xdrive and many told me I was crazy. With good winter tires I find I have better control than I used to with front wheel drive car with winter tires.

that's what I've been preaching on the boards...EcoPro with RWD winter tires FTW!

[Propagator]

So the guy who owns the adaptive found it to be superior in every regard, even in terms of NOISE LEVEL. The guy who owns passive did not notice much difference overall, except that the comfort mode is nice.

This is a text book example of why one needs to conduct a double blind test. When you are dealing with subtle differences like this, personal bias and preconceived notion trump any real differences.

[SteveAus]

Just waiting for delivery on my 335i M-Sport with adaptive M-Suspension. Thanks for the great feedback - better than the BMW dealership. Looks like I made the right choice :-). My previous car was an M3 and I wanted something that was sporty for me, but also generally comfortable for passengers (my wife hated the ride in the M3 Convertible with 19" rims).

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Do it whatever way you want, get data or get user feedback, I've no issue with how we arrive at a conclusion.

User feedback can be debated all day long, just as whether an 18" or 19" wheel is the best performer. Data shows the truth, but you'll hardly ever convince a driver who wants 19" wheels the car performs better on the 18" wheels. But the 'judgement' is not usually made on the whole performance, it is dominated by one or two characteristics and they come to the top of the personal choice. One will have 19" for sharper steering turn in, another 18" for better ride quality. We can debate which is best forever. But a blind test will still show up those characteristics, unless we are really dumb.

BTW, have you tried two cars, one with and one without VDC? If you have, you'll know the characteristics are different. It is like the example of the tyres, the characteristics come through.

The whole idea of VDC is to improve ride comfort and also increase driving dynamics. If that does not shine through to any particular driver, so be it. I'm not talking of the modes here, but the subtle differences which add refinement in a given setting. I can accept that to some drivers the differences don't have value, or a passive system is good enough. But that has nothing to do with the chassis itself.

BTW, I've no issues with blind testing, but not sure what that will prove when we all know the differences will be there, whatever the opinion of their benefits to the drive. Do you really feel drivers won't detect the differences if they blind test 'back to back'?

HighlandPete

HLP - I agree 100% with you. I mean numbers are needed if the judgement is close, or if you want to reach a number target. That's great.

Subjective does have value for anything in between that - in fact this is how we test drive our cars at the dealership right? 1) We test drive on feel and 2) We don't buy the car soley based on numbers. Otherwise, we'd all have...<insert generic or impossible car here>

Does anyone debate what Top Gear says if they don't show their math? I mean ALL their math? Nope.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Seagull

HLP - I agree 100% with you. I mean numbers are needed if the judgement is close, or if you want to reach a number target. That's great.

Subjective does have value for anything in between that - in fact this is how we test drive our cars at the dealership right? 1) We test drive on feel and 2) We don't buy the car soley based on numbers. Otherwise, we'd all have

Does anyone debate what Top Gear says if they don't show their math? I mean ALL their math? Nope.

I know that other posters believe that we really need a blind test to eliminate a placebo effect, but personally I can't see what it will tell us, no more than what is a 'personal assessment' from an individual driver's test drive.

Suspension feel and feedback is so subjective, we still won't get definitive results from human testers. There is one key reason, it is our individual perception of ride quality. We can't even be 100% united on what is defined as ride comfort, and from the science it is clear why. From those trying to evaluate definitons of ride comfort....

Methods to Estimate the Ride Comfort Perception of the vehicle’s ride comfort is different from one passenger to another, depending on its taste and physical constitution. However, the ride comfort of a certain vehicle can be evaluated based on ..... the transfer function of vibration from the rough road to the vehicle’s body.

Now add the frequencies in which ride comfort is typically understood.

Ride is perceived as most comfortable when the natural frequency is in the range of 60 to 90 cycles per minute (CPM), or about 1 Hz to 1.5 Hz. When the frequency approaches 120 CPM (2 Hz), occupants perceive the ride as harsh. Consequently, the suspension of the average family sedan will have a natural frequency of about 60 to 90 CPM. A high-performance sports car will have a stiffer suspension with a natural frequency of about 120 to 150 CPM (2 to 2.5 Hz).

Take this forum (or any other) and ask what sort of suspension a driver prefers, again the differences are so wide that we have no definitive suspension/wheel setup, we'd all agree on is "the" setup, so must rely on data for what is ride comfort, or just go for what we personally like. We've all seen the reports on changing from run-flats to non run-flat tyres, where clearly the ride frequency is changed. Clearly not extreme in any way, but the feel and feedback ranges from "far too soft and uncontrolled", to "fantastic change in ride and handling qualities". Neither driver is necessarily right or wrong, just each driver prefers a certain ride frequency, and the nearer to it, that the vehicle is riding, the better it is received.

Now add BMW's design intent, with adaptive M-sport suspension.

The primary objective of the EDC (adaptive) system is to increase ride comfort and maintain a high standard of driving safety without compromise. Greater ride comfort is achieved if the vertical movement of the vehicle body is virtually eliminated despite excitation of the vehicle due to the roadway (unevenness, joints) or cornering. This is why the adjustable dampers are operated using a soft, comfortable damping characteristic in as many situations as possible.

I can't speak for others but I know from my own testing in the 5-series F10/F11 models, that the adaptive damping transforms the feel and feedback, when we speak of "to increase ride comfort and maintain a high standard of driving safety without compromise". For me, driving an F11 touring on 18" wheels on standard suspension, and then my F11 with the adaptive suspension in normal mode (as the nearest comparison) there is refinement of an order that, for me, puts the adaptive suspension in a different league. True, I've read the motor magazines (like WhatCar?) and know they say the following from their tests.....

BMW F11 5-Series
Ride & Handling On standard suspension, the Five’s ride and handling are nowhere near as good as they should be. However, you can add Variable Damper Control to four-cylinder models and Adaptive Drive to six-cylinder models, and these options transform the car. They aren’t cheap, but they’re essential, as they make the ride more cosseting and the handling sharper.

But I can only make a decision on my own "seat of the pants" driving, even if BMW and motoring critics do claim the same as I feel myself. What I did know ahead of driving tests, I was after the most refined ride and handling balance I could find, in the model I was looking to buy.

What I've just posted is a long way of saying for the F30 suspension, "test for yourselves", make a judgement on what you feel and want from a suspension. There is no right and wrong, make a valued decision on what you find, but don't expect everyone to agree and rate a suspension the same as we personally do.

HighlandPete

[B///MWGuy]

Hi, I'm at So Cal and I'm having extremely hard time finding f30 equipped with Adaptive M Sport suspension..... I tried entering VIN of every f30 I find on the dealership websites.. but every one of them have M Sports Suspension.. Is the adaptive version included on the "M sport Package"? I find it being separate option in the BMWUSA.com build page.

I have found no F30 equipped with adaptive suspension... Is it not available in U.S. yet?

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by fyun89

Hi, I'm at So Cal and I'm having extremely hard time finding f30 equipped with Adaptive M Sport suspension..... I tried entering VIN of every f30 I find on the dealership websites.. but every one of them have M Sports Suspension.. Is the adaptive version included on the "M sport Package"? I find it being separate option in the BMWUSA.com build page.

I have found no F30 equipped with adaptive suspension... Is it not available in U.S. yet?

It's an option on M-Sport. I didn't order it because I am always in Sport Mode, and I'm the only driver. Coming from an M3 with 19s I'm quite happy with the regular sports suspension.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by snowghost

It's an option on M-Sport. I didn't order it because I am always in Sport Mode, and I'm the only driver. Coming from an M3 with 19s I'm quite happy with the regular sports suspension.

It's a regular option, it's part of the Dynamic Handling package called Adaptive M Suspension, for $1k.

Looks like you can get it on all lines. I have it on my sports line. It's definitely not M Sport only.

[n55x3]

I had a similar experience when looking for a 335i. I probably looked up 300+ vins and maybe 5% had adaptive suspension but none were m sport. I finally gave up and did a custom order. For the low price of the option and constant praise of adaptive suspension it really surprises me that it is so incredibly rare.

[sean10mm]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

It's a regular option, it's part of the Dynamic Handling package called Adaptive M Suspension, for $1k.

Looks like you can get it on all lines. I have it on my sports line. It's definitely not M Sport only.

Yep, can get it on any line, and RWD or xDrive. At least in the US.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by n55x3

I had a similar experience when looking for a 335i. I probably looked up 300+ vins and maybe 5% had adaptive suspension but none were m sport. I finally gave up and did a custom order. For the low price of the option and constant praise of adaptive suspension it really surprises me that it is so incredibly rare.

Interesting. I bought mine off the lot. Apparently, it was the first one they ordered to show off the new F30 and loaded it up. Didn't even look at the other ones, so can't comment on their suspensions.

[Lorde]

Originally Posted by SteveAus

Just waiting for delivery on my 335i M-Sport with adaptive M-Suspension. Thanks for the great feedback - better than the BMW dealership. Looks like I made the right choice :-). My previous car was an M3 and I wanted something that was sporty for me, but also generally comfortable for passengers (my wife hated the ride in the M3 Convertible with 19" rims).

The DHP in my F30 M-Sport is a lot harsher than my E90 M3 with EDC.

[cGodin]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

that's what I've been preaching on the boards...EcoPro with RWD winter tires FTW!

I second this!! That's my plan for next winter. I used to live in the Farmington valley and had to go over Avon mountain, but now I'm in west Hartford and it's mostly flat.

Planning to mount some serious snows and always keep it in EcoPro. I'm thinking it'll be better than my GTIs were with FWD and snows.

[atomicS]

Originally Posted by Diagnosic

Great review

I bought my 335i xDrive with M-Package in December 2012. I am also quite happy with the adaptive dampers. But what I can hear is a very disturbing "rumbling" over small unevennesses of the road. Does somebody made the same experience?

I have a 335i with M adaptive suspension. Mine gives out extra sounds coming from the direction of the wheel under the steering wheel over slightly uneven roads. I wouldn't call it a rumble but more like a very annoying "cook cook" sound with additional echoes as if it continues to vibrate after the jolt. I thought it sounded like something was loose or falling apart. It is most apparently heard from the driver and front passenger seat.

I have brought the car back to the dealer and after months of checks and troubleshooting, told that it was a characteristic of the M adaptive suspension. I was told told that BMW AG is working on a fix. Meanwhile I turn on the music and enjoy the drive of an otherwise awesome car.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by atomicS

I have a 335i with M adaptive suspension. Mine gives out extra sounds coming from the direction of the wheel under the steering wheel over slightly uneven roads. I wouldn't call it a rumble but more like a very annoying "cook cook" sound with additional echoes as if it continues to vibrate after the jolt. I thought it sounded like something was loose or falling apart. It is most apparently heard from the driver and front passenger seat.

I have brought the car back to the dealer and after months of checks and troubleshooting, told that it was a characteristic of the M adaptive suspension. I was told told that BMW AG is working on a fix. Meanwhile I turn on the music and enjoy the drive of an otherwise awesome car.

I have DHP too on x drive 335i. In comfort and Eco pro modes I do hear sounds coming from the tire absorbing the bumps. However this is a pleasant sound, I interpret this as feedback of the active suspension at work, nothing intrusive at all and only hear this when the windows are open. Once in sport and sport + the sound goes away as the chassis is stiffened up. I would say if you find the turbo whistles intrusive and noisy then you will find the sound from the suspension intrusive in comfort or Eco pro mode, if the whistles are music, same goes for the Suspension. I also have to add that I don't feel as if something is falling off so its also possible something is wrong with your car