[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

I run a check valve now (had a solenoid die on me) ~40cm upstream from my nozzles. No matter check valve or solenoid they dont work for anti-siphoning. For this you need in-nozzle check valve.

Solenoid would be better for progressive control, but that doesn't matter as you want to run 100% for max atomization and even distribution. Adjust your volumen with the nozzle size - not the PWM.

What controller have you chosen?

My setup...

I have not gotten a controller yet. That's the last thing I need for this to be complete, waiting for parts to come in as we speak, I was going to keep it simple with an aem controller, I'm not tuning for the additional octane, and I know there's more advanced controllers such as yours, I don't have a computer at the house, just an iPad, so I probably won't be able to program anything advanced like that any way.

I'm using a check valve right on top of the nozzle with 20 psi cracking pressure, hopefully it works well enough

[Pussiwillow]

Are there any actual disadvantages to running a backend flash with MHD and jb4 and letting jb4 control the meth?
Seems the most integrated and easiest yet clean way to do things..

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Are there any actual disadvantages to running a backend flash with MHD and jb4 and letting jb4 control the meth?
Seems the most integrated and easiest yet clean way to do things..

Not really except the poor drivability of the JB4. I had JB4 before and used all of those ~3 years trying to make it run so it felt integrated with the car, eventually gave up and now run MHD full flash.

If just for cooling then why not a simple Hobbs switch? You really just need on/off for that - and if you dont need the octane or fuel volume then you dont need any safeties.

If you want to go the JB4 route then I suggest you to run it in map0 and only use it for meth injection. I got a custom firmware from Terry that allow this.

[Pussiwillow]

I spoke with a few guys at bms and another person running jb4 for meth control, apparently you can run your backend flash (MHD) and set jb4 up just for meth injection, if I have the option to spend a little extra and actually gain performance for it and have safeties in place using this, I'll go this route, my initial idea was just to supplement the tune I'm on for octane stability and cooling, because I didn't have the knowledge to wire in safeties yet with the set up I planned on, but would later.
I misunderstood jb4 and had the concerns with drivability but was assured you can set it up specifically to feed meth how you want it while retaining your drivability.

[harkes]

Regarding pushing the car a bit more...

In your shoes I would just go ahead and experiment with the OTS maps and the meth/water mixture. Start with Stage1 91 map and just work your way up until you start getting timing corrections - job done.
I run 100% meth because I need the octane/volume more than the cooling (and because I am too lazy to mix haha).

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

Regarding pushing the car a bit more...

In your shoes I would just go ahead and experiment with the OTS maps and the meth/water mixture. Start with Stage1 91 map and just work your way up until you start getting timing corrections - job done.
I run 100% meth because I need the octane/volume more than the cooling (and because I am too lazy to mix haha).

See I'm all about that, but in the off chance meth stops spraying. I'm out an engine without that fail safe, surely I could get lucky and the dme saves me one time but I dunno if I wanna gamble that between a 160$ aem controller vs 200$ used jb4 and 150$ for the fsb for meth integration. atleast there's some form of fail safe, and I still have fully programmable progressive methanol, and like you, I plan on running 100% meth, I can find is for nearly the same price per gallon as boost juice mix anyway so why not.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

See I'm all about that, but in the off chance meth stops spraying. I'm out an engine without that fail safe, surely I could get lucky and the dme saves me one time but I dunno if I wanna gamble that between a 160$ aem controller vs 200$ used jb4 and 150$ for the fsb for meth integration. atleast there's some form of fail safe, and I still have fully programmable progressive methanol, and like you, I plan on running 100% meth, I can find is for nearly the same price per gallon as boost juice mix anyway so why not.

Meth is not the best for cooling (I thought that was the goal). If you just want WMI to improve timing then the DME is all the safety you need, but, of course, use safeties if that is what you like.

AEM over JB4 10 of 10 times!

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

Meth is not the best for cooling (I thought that was the goal). If you just want WMI to improve timing then the DME is all the safety you need, but, of course, use safeties if that is what you like.

AEM over JB4 10 of 10 times!

Sorry if this has been confusing. My initial goal was that, I wasn't considering jb4 because of drivability and what not, but after confirming some things it's back on the table as an option. I just didn't have a plan of attack for a stand-alone system with a fail safe right away so I wasn't going to push the car until then, so the temp goal was just to spray it and have it help keep things stable and clean.

But if the option is there to use safeties and jb4 offers that, I'm not hurting anything blushing the car at that point.

I don't think the dme can handle something like an e20 tune pushing meth on 91 pump, and meth stops flowing. People get super knock on a bad batch of 91 pushing the car.. aem is nice and I think they offer a fail safe as well, it just won't be as integrated as jb4 imo without extensive work

[harkes]

Alright - hope you'll have less issues than me with the JB4 N54tech.com will be your best friend in the future

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

Alright - hope you'll have less issues than me with the JB4 N54tech.com will be your best friend in the future

Thank you, I appreciate it, worst case I move to a different set up later if it doesn't work right, we shall see.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Thank you, I appreciate it, worst case I move to a different set up later if it doesn't work right, we shall see.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Sorry if this has been confusing. My initial goal was that, I wasn't considering jb4 because of drivability and what not, but after confirming some things it's back on the table as an option. I just didn't have a plan of attack for a stand-alone system with a fail safe right away so I wasn't going to push the car until then, so the temp goal was just to spray it and have it help keep things stable and clean.

But if the option is there to use safeties and jb4 offers that, I'm not hurting anything blushing the car at that point.

I don't think the dme can handle something like an e20 tune pushing meth on 91 pump, and meth stops flowing. People get super knock on a bad batch of 91 pushing the car.. aem is nice and I think they offer a fail safe as well, it just won't be as integrated as jb4 imo without extensive work

Meth failure/safeties aside, you don't want to run an ethanol OTS map that is not designed for meth with pump gas and meth. The ethanol maps are going to increase fueling (based on the assumption you are running the ethanol mix the map is designed for) as compared to a pump gas map which means you are going to run even more rich on tip in and rely further on negative fuel trims when you are spraying meth. It quite possible you could max out your fuel trims and continue to run rich. Ive seen -25% already when people run meth on OTS maps. This will be even more true if you run 100% meth and no water.

If you are going to use your meth to push into higher octane OTS maps stick only to the pump gas ones or race gas. I believe there was someone running BM3 stage 2+ with stock HPFP and meth (and pump gas), but then you really are relying on meth for both octane and fueling in a big way.

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Meth failure/safeties aside, you don't want to run an ethanol OTS map that is not designed for meth with pump gas and meth. The ethanol maps are going to increase fueling (based on the assumption you are running the ethanol mix the map is designed for) as compared to a pump gas map which means you are going to run even more rich on tip in and rely further on negative fuel trims when you are spraying meth. It quite possible you could max out your fuel trims and continue to run rich. Ive seen -25% already when people run meth on OTS maps. This will be even more true if you run 100% meth and no water.

If you are going to use your meth to push into higher octane OTS maps stick only to the pump gas ones or race gas. I believe there was someone running BM3 stage 2+ with stock HPFP and meth (and pump gas), but then you really are relying on meth for both octane and fueling in a big way.

I was going to run pump gas logs step by step, and see where things sit, I probably won't be running any ethanol maps, I may log e20 to see what's going on, for fun, but was just going to keep it simple, I was making an example that the hypothetically running an e20 map on pump gas, I don't think the dme could save the engine if meth stopped spraying, as a response to above comments. So failsafe will be in place, I've heard of even meth to supplement octane no tune for it, can lead to detonation if it stops spraying as the dme adjusts to the fuel trims and the like, so even for a simple set up I feel better having what I can to keep things smooth.
I appreciate the details and insight you provided on this topic.

Most of this is in prep to a bigger picture set up later this year, I do plan on upgrading the turbo, not sure the direction yet, whether it be ps2 or a big boost garret gtx800 set up, but I know I'm limited to fueling here with only 91 available, and the worst 91 at that, so meth was the easiest push for cleaning up octane even if I don't push more aggressive timing or boost with it. I feel it will be a major benefit on its own.

[AmuroRay]

ZM2 Says his TTE turbo has stock like spool and he's near 500WHP on E50.

But I would LOVE to see a BEF dyno if you ever do one, and I believe that Terry provides the free custom maps?

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

ZM2 Says his TTE turbo has stock like spool and he's near 500WHP on E50.

But I would LOVE to see a BEF dyno if you ever do one, and I believe that Terry provides the free custom maps?

I'll see what I can do, I think we have a roller here in town now.
I'm very curious to see what 100% meth and 91 can do on stock turbo properly set up

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

I'll see what I can do, I think we have a roller here in town now.
I'm very curious to see what 100% meth and 91 can do on stock turbo properly set up

Probably about the same as stock turbo on ~E70-85 since you will likely be turbo limited rather than fuel/octane limited. Would likely be similar to a race gas + HPFP power level.

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Probably about the same as stock turbo on ~E70-85 since you will likely be turbo limited rather than fuel/octane limited. Would likely be similar to a race gas + HPFP power level.

That would be really awesome. I'll take it step by step and see where it lands safely

[Pussiwillow]

Little update
Lines came in, I'm piecing my own kit together. Almost there. I do need jb4, fsb and solenoid from them. But I'm hoping to have it plumbed and purged this weekend to make sure no leaks.

[harkes]

So.......let me show you why you dont actually need any safeties

Tested a new map today and forgot to turn on my meth. Map is made to use meth for both fuel volume AND octane.

Without meth - multiple timing corrections, HPFP drop and STFT corrections
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

With meth
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

Had the HPFP completely tanked the DME would have shut down injectors to supply enough fuel for the other cylinders to not run lean.

Just FYI for insight

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

So.......let me show you why you dont actually need any safeties

Tested a new map today and forgot to turn on my meth. Map is made to use meth for both fuel volume AND octane.

Without meth - multiple timing corrections, HPFP drop and STFT corrections
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

With meth
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

Had the HPFP completely tanked the DME would have shut down injectors to supply enough fuel for the other cylinders to not run lean.

Just FYI for insight

I'll check these out shortly, my only concern is a super knock, or something catastrophic if meth stops spraying, I know the dme is very smart and very fast, faster than jb4 as a safety, I just don't know the limits of something like this being corrected is all, otherwise I'll be happy to run a simple aem controller which I may end up

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by harkes

So.......let me show you why you dont actually need any safeties

Tested a new map today and forgot to turn on my meth. Map is made to use meth for both fuel volume AND octane.

Without meth - multiple timing corrections, HPFP drop and STFT corrections
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

With meth
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/mapswitc...25-26-27-28-29

Had the HPFP completely tanked the DME would have shut down injectors to supply enough fuel for the other cylinders to not run lean.

Just FYI for insight

do you log actual timing instead of just timing corr? im interested to see.

also, the DME capability to adjust STFT is not as quick/effective for 6MT after gear shift

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Little update
Lines came in, I'm piecing my own kit together. Almost there. I do need jb4, fsb and solenoid from them. But I'm hoping to have it plumbed and purged this weekend to make sure no leaks.

nice kit. consider a filter. i added one and the peace of mind is worth it. what are you going to use for mixture?