[Kal101]

Currently I’m sat in a Centre Parcs for a relaxing few days with she who must be obeyed and I’m kind of gob smacked by the number of children of a school going age that are here. There’s no appropriate school holidays so I presume they’re bunking off - with the parents consent and knowledge

Looking at some of the parents they appear to be typical middle class centre parc going types who would look down on “ other” parents whose kids bunk off - yet aren’t they doing exactly the same.

A truancy officer here would make more than the average speed camera - just at this location.

With the two fat kids when they were of school going age we put education before saving money on holiday !

[Watsey]

IMO there's a difference between big truancy and a child being taken out of school during term time. Parents tend not to know about the former, but are the decision-makers in the latter.

We occasionally take our girls out of term time for a couple of extra days before or after the school holidays as often it makes massive difference to the cost of holidays, especially as we tend to select flights and accommodation that make the £££s go a lot further. The school doesn't condone it but also doesn't penalise it (in our County there's an unofficial limit of 5 days unauthorised absence per academic year).

The children have a very good attendance record and very good levels of achievement so a few days sway on holidays doesn't appear to be doing any harm.

[JD6]

We take the odd day as well. We used to inform the Head out of politeness, who would have to refuse permission, but actually not mind given the usual attendance/achievement pattern, however, a hint was dropped that we should make up an excuse instead. Apparently this way it doesn’t form part of the OFSTED figures. We’re not entirely comfortable with lying, not being a great example for the kid, but it seems to be the preferred option.

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by Watsey

IMO there's a difference between big truancy and a child being taken out of school during term time. Parents tend not to know about the former, but are the decision-makers in the latter.

We occasionally take our girls out of term time for a couple of extra days before or after the school holidays as often it makes massive difference to the cost of holidays, especially as we tend to select flights and accommodation that make the £££s go a lot further. The school doesn't condone it but also doesn't penalise it (in our County there's an unofficial limit of 5 days unauthorised absence per academic year).

The children have a very good attendance record and very good levels of achievement so a few days sway on holidays doesn't appear to be doing any harm.

Agree with what you’ve said there and can sort of appreciate a couple of days at the start/ end of term as schools don’t often do much in the way of education at this time. Especially when the holiday companies do bend you over during holiday time.

But this is now in the middle of term time, when education should be in full swing . I just can’t get my head around it - sacrificing education - maybe I’m old fashioned but you’re sending out the wrong message to kids ie it’s ok to shirk off, perhaps ?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Kal027

Agree with what you’ve said there and can sort of appreciate a couple of days at the start/ end of term as schools don’t often do much in the way of education at this time. Especially when the holiday companies do bend you over during holiday time.

But this is now in the middle of term time, when education should be in full swing . I just can’t get my head around it - sacrificing education - maybe I’m old fashioned but you’re sending out the wrong message to kids ie it’s ok to shirk off, perhaps ?

We're on the same page. Very unlikely we'd take them out at other times - education is to be valued.

[Bibbles]

I've been to Center Parcs a fair few times when the kids Pre school age. What made you think it would be a relaxing few days? It's purgatory at any time of year. You can book a nice spa hotel for less money.

[teaston]

Centre parcs is great if you have kids, free swimming and everything within walking distance and lodges rather than hotel rooms you’d be stuck in all evening.

By I don’t understand why anyone without kids would go there! A nice city break or one of the national parks would be much better surely?

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Bibbles

I've been to Center Parcs a fair few times when the kids Pre school age. What made you think it would be a relaxing few days? It's purgatory at any time of year. You can book a nice spa hotel for less money.

I was thinking the same, Butlins in a forest...no ta.

[Lynxi2k]

Depends on age, really. I think it's acceptable for anything as long as not GCSE's or A-level years. If holiday companies and airlines are going to rip parents off then why not?

I think kids/parent should be given the option of a week or two to avoid massive price hikes, as long as pre agreed with school and then parents and school can make sure the kids education doesn't suffer.

The problem is common sense is rarely applied by schools and that leads to a lack of dialogue and lies etc that doesn't teach the kids any good lessons either. Would be far better all round to show them how 2 parties can work together to accommodate each other's needs without damaging either side.

Like much of things in the world these days common sense and empathy seems in short supply.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Lynxi2k

Depends on age, really. I think it's acceptable for anything as long as not GCSE's or A-level years. If holiday companies and airlines are going to rip parents off then why not?

I think kids/parent should be given the option of a week or two to avoid massive price hikes, as long as pre agreed with school and then parents and school can make sure the kids education doesn't suffer.

The problem is common sense is rarely applied by schools and that leads to a lack of dialogue and lies etc that doesn't teach the kids any good lessons either. Would be far better all round to show them how 2 parties can work together to accommodate each other's needs without damaging either side.

Like much of things in the world these days common sense and empathy seems in short supply.

It’s a difficult one really, on one hand I can see the logic in what does a few days matter, but then surely the other parents at that school who do stick to the rules will think you’re arseholes?

[pensioned off]

Originally Posted by teaston

Centre parcs is great if you have kids, free swimming and everything within walking distance and lodges rather than hotel rooms you’d be stuck in all evening.

By I don’t understand why anyone without kids would go there! A nice city break or one of the national parks would be much better surely?

Traffic free too!

[Kyuuseishu]

Just to give the teacher opinion on this since we regularly deal with this, especially close to half terms and major holidays periods.

I completely understand why parents, especially those from less well off backgrounds would take their kids on holiday during term time since the costs outside of it are mental. One of the main reasons I've not followed by dream Holiday to Japan yet is because of the cost during the summer.

The only thing I disagree with is that their isn't an understanding from the parents side (usually) that the time missed must be caught up. It is an absolute pain to catch a student up on a week worth of work after the holidays because it will be too late by that point as you have to get a move on to the next topic for the 29+ other kids.

I disagree with your paragraph though Lynx, schools make it perfectly clear the disadvantages of missing school, and teachers do work to catch kids up, but there isn't always support from the parents side because whats a week worth of school eh? Schools are understanding of a variety of absences and permission is at the heads discretion, unfortunately holidays which take a massive chunk out of term time aren't one of those things usually given permission. A day or two before the end of term is given a lot more leeway.

What needs to change is the price gouging outside of term time by holiday companies, not how schools operate themselves because they are just doing what the government tells them. Attendance is closely monitored and we have targets to meet in regards to this. It isn't a lack of common sense or empathy, because every teacher I know is empathetic to the plight of parents, unfortunately we have a job to do and a mixture of term time holidays and a lack of support from parents in catching their own kids up mean schools can come across as a bit heartless in this respect.

[Lynxi2k]

For the sums of money that can be saved, I'd be happy for people to think I'm an arsehole! I'm sure many do already!

As to catching up a child at the detriment of others learning, that should be down to the parents to do before the child returns, but as with many things this wouldn't/won't happen.

I'm not sure I give the same importance of a weeks worth of school outside of exam years. That's another argument I appreciate as it comes down to what that child might be actually missing in that week, how the child learns, behavioural issues etc etc. Which is why sensible dialogue should be undertaken as to the "best" time to miss if that week is fundamentals of other learning. However I think this would be rare outside of GCSEs or A-level years.

Ultimately the issue is with the holiday companies and airlines. Parents and schools shouldn't be in this situation. As someone else mentioned it can mean the difference to being able to afford a family holiday or not for families. So reserving one more thing for the middle classes and above, or encouraging further debt.

I just don't see the problem as black and white as maybe suggested above. Which is why common sense and sensible dialogue should be the norm, rather than fines and stigmatism.

I do agree that neither parents or schools should be in this situation though!

[Kyuuseishu]

Originally Posted by Lynxi2k

For the sums of money that can be saved, I'd be happy for people to think I'm an arsehole! I'm sure many do already!

As to catching up a child at the detriment of others learning, that should be down to the parents to do before the child returns, but as with many things this wouldn't/won't happen.

I'm not sure I give the same importance of a weeks worth of school outside of exam years. That's another argument I appreciate as it comes down to what that child might be actually missing in that week, how the child learns, behavioural issues etc etc. Which is why sensible dialogue should be undertaken as to the "best" time to miss if that week is fundamentals of other learning. However I think this would be rare outside of GCSEs or A-level years.

Ultimately the issue is with the holiday companies and airlines. Parents and schools shouldn't be in this situation. As someone else mentioned it can mean the difference to being able to afford a family holiday or not for families. So reserving one more thing for the middle classes and above, or encouraging further debt.

I just don't see the problem as black and white as maybe suggested above. Which is why common sense and sensible dialogue should be the norm, rather than fines and stigmatism.

I do agree that neither parents or schools should be in this situation though!

The problem is that schools are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to term time family holidays. Weddings, funerals etc are given proper consideration and 99% of the time get approved as they are usually only day affairs (maybe two). In terms of holidays, schools can't be seen encouraging taking time off school for a holiday as it contradicts the push on attendance by the powers that be. It isn't even the school themselves that issues fines, it is the council who issue and take the payment, school doesn't see any of it.

I don't see the issue as black and white per say, it is just how it is presented to the public really since schools are sympathetic to those who cannot afford a holiday outside of term time. Unfortunately we are forced to take a hard line on it by the higher ups.

In terms of dialogue and picking a 'best time', during term time isn't one for a large number of subjects which rely heavily on prior learning. A week missed even during year 7 has a knock on effect with later learning as most subjects use a spiral curriculum. With the sheer number of subjects as well, one week may be fine for some subjects but not for others, it's impossible to juggle them all. If I was to suggest to parents it would be the last few days of a half term that is best since the less time missed the better. Prices are still significantly cheaper a couple of days before holidays compared to during them, just not as cheap as mid-term.

However, we still come up against students, even those in year 11 taking a week out during term and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack for their sake. Teachers do it because they care, but no one likes extra work because of the choice of others.

[R0B]

Holiday companies should not be allowed to raise prices in school holidays. It's actually pretty evil to my mind.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Kyuuseishu

The problem is that schools are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to term time family holidays. Weddings, funerals etc are given proper consideration and 99% of the time get approved as they are usually only day affairs (maybe two). In terms of holidays, schools can't be seen encouraging taking time off school for a holiday as it contradicts the push on attendance by the powers that be. It isn't even the school themselves that issues fines, it is the council who issue and take the payment, school doesn't see any of it.

I don't see the issue as black and white per say, it is just how it is presented to the public really since schools are sympathetic to those who cannot afford a holiday outside of term time. Unfortunately we are forced to take a hard line on it by the higher ups.

In terms of dialogue and picking a 'best time', during term time isn't one for a large number of subjects which rely heavily on prior learning. A week missed even during year 7 has a knock on effect with later learning as most subjects use a spiral curriculum. With the sheer number of subjects as well, one week may be fine for some subjects but not for others, it's impossible to juggle them all. If I was to suggest to parents it would be the last few days of a half term that is best since the less time missed the better. Prices are still significantly cheaper a couple of days before holidays compared to during them, just not as cheap as mid-term.

However, we still come up against students, even those in year 11 taking a week out during term and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack for their sake. Teachers do it because they care, but no one likes extra work because of the choice of others.

But let’s face it, a lot of kids will end up working in Mcdonalds or in Tesco’s stacking shelves etc anyway, so it’s not going to make any difference to them

[AndyMD]

Holiday companies will never change their pricing structure and let's face it, if I owned Center Parcs neither would I. Center Parcs has the highest all year round occupancy rates of any holiday company, almost 97% full all year round and it's true that if you go a week before or after a school holiday you will save on average £800 on your holiday.

Looking at it from a completely different angle, yes of course education is important, but the British school curriculum is antiquated and produces too many pupils who suffer the stress of cramming it all in as our wonderful government want them to learn as the attitude is 'it was good for us 30 years ago, so it should be good for kids today'.

The majority of European counties have modernised their education system for 4 - 11 year olds which allows a flexible approach to learning and encourages pupils to go on family holidays in term time, as quality time with parents learning life skills and new practical skills is as important as learning inside a classroom. Most pupils don't even start school until they are 6 and in Sweden it's 7.

So it's the school system that needs to change and then the holiday pricing will follow. However with this bunch of backward privately educated donkeys in charge of the British education system, I don't think it will anytime soon.

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by Bibbles

I've been to Center Parcs a fair few times when the kids Pre school age. What made you think it would be a relaxing few days? It's purgatory at any time of year. You can book a nice spa hotel for less money.

Originally Posted by teaston

Centre parcs is great if you have kids, free swimming and everything within walking distance and lodges rather than hotel rooms you’d be stuck in all evening.

By I don’t understand why anyone without kids would go there! A nice city break or one of the national parks would be much better surely?

I find it quite relaxing - away from all the traffic and hustle and bustle of city life.
Geat for walking and swimming-one of the few holidays I come back fitter than I went.

Have done city breaks and long haul stuff as well - each to their own I guess !!

[Kal101]

Here’s my concern as well and maybe I’m overthinking here

So we’re teaching kids that it’s ok to bunk off - after all the parents (example setters) are saying it’s ok and supporting it - appreciate the cost issues and it did grind my gears when my two were of a school age.

Is this likely to alter their values and work ethics?

I would only be allowed time off from school if I was at deaths door and this has followed me into my working life, after 30+ years of working my absence due to health, snow etc etc can probably be counted on one hand. Now I regularly come across staff whose attitude is incredibly laissez faire re coming into work, even come across staff who felt they had to take their sick entitlement or were loosing out. ( Even caught sick staff out shopping,going out clubbing and in one case a supervisor booking sick time off before she went on holiday!!)

Like I said maybe I’m overthinking the whole issue.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by R0bb0

Holiday companies should not be allowed to raise prices in school holidays. It's actually pretty evil to my mind.

How can you legislate that in a free market?

I must have missed the bit where having children is compulsory or is it still optional? Assuming it's still optional than surely you know that expense, in all sorts of ways, is one of the downsides and you make the decision accordingly.

If it's too expensive and / or curtails other things you want to do then don't have them. If you decide to then don't moan about the associated costs.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by R0bb0

Holiday companies should not be allowed to raise prices in school holidays. It's actually pretty evil to my mind.

I think couples who can prove they have never bared kids should get the non inflated school holiday rates. Why sure I have to pay twice as my for a Euro Tunnel crossing, because some selfish couple have decided to have kids.

[Harryg]

Originally Posted by Kal027

Here’s my concern as well and maybe I’m overthinking here

So we’re teaching kids that it’s ok to bunk off - after all the parents (example setters) are saying it’s ok and supporting it - appreciate the cost issues and it did grind my gears when my two were of a school age.

Is this likely to alter their values and work ethics?

I would only be allowed time off from school if I was at deaths door and this has followed me into my working life, after 30+ years of working my absence due to health, snow etc etc can probably be counted on one hand. Now I regularly come across staff whose attitude is incredibly laissez faire re coming into work, even come across staff who felt they had to take their sick entitlement or were loosing out. ( Even caught sick staff out shopping,going out clubbing and in one case a supervisor booking sick time off before she went on holiday!!)

Like I said maybe I’m overthinking the whole issue.

I don't think you are overthinking and I personally think you are right as schooling goes. We have kids and know that its an upward struggle to fit every thing in including holidays, yes its costly but that's life. As for taking kids on holiday out of term to save a few quid it shouldn't be allowed as people who are not so fortunate cant do this you would have everyone doing this, just because you can doesn't say this should be allowed. Think of the less privileged parents and how their kids would feel when they see other kids trotting off on jollies that they cant afford.
You see a lot of posts on here where people don't complain about getting all the bells and whistles with their cars yet moan about extra cost for hols.

People complain about costs yes its a disgrace these companies charging excessive amounts for holidays term time and something needs to be done.


My two are looking at new Ipads and a host of other things at Christmas that would pay for the extra cost of the holiday term time will they get them of course they will and the holiday its worth the extra to have quality time with the children.


Rant over
and no children should not be taken out of school for hols school is for learning and discipline is part of it.