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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes > Finally, a good non-camber plate camber solution for xDrive (and RWD too)!
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      01-30-2019, 12:17 AM   #1
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Finally, a good non-camber plate camber solution for xDrive (and RWD too)!

One of the things I've been chasing last year was how to get more negative camber, without having to resort to noisy camber plates. I started off seeing how much the stock components could be pushed (-0.6deg), followed by Superpro's camber adjustable bushings (-1.1deg). Powerflex also has a camber adjustable bushings, but the adjustment range is the same as Superpros (+/- 0.5deg). RWD owners are lucky enough to be able to use M3/4 lower control arms/wishbones, but it's a bit interesting since you need to put shims between the bushing and subframe mounts. xDrive owners are out of luck with that method as Kies Motorsports found out.

I read in the 2-series forum that K-Mac had made a camber adjustable bushing, and was able to get a larger adjustment range than Superpro or Powerflex. I got in contact with them last August, and found that they did have a design, but it wasn't very well vetted since Australia doesn't get xDrive cars. So after a significant amount of back and forth, and multiple revisions, I feel comfortable that K-Mac is in a place to deliver a solid product to us.

K-Mac's bushing (PN 193616-8H) uses a steel core "main bushing" encapsulated by polyurethane caps and steel washers which go between the subframe mounts. On the opposite side of the subframe mounts go "bite washers," which clamp the bushing in place to hold the camber setting you want. The polyurethane caps are two pieces, so you don't need a press to install this bushing, and you don't need one to remove the original either since K-Mac includes an extraction cup/tool (however I didn't use it and did use a press to remove my old bushings). Adjusting the camber is easier than other solutions too. You just use a regular socket or wrench and turn the head of the included bolt to rotate the bushing/camber setting. No proprietary skinny wrenches required!



All the pieces with "teeth" are meant to bite into the subframe mounts, and the end washers need to be even/on the same plane as the ends of the main bushing so both sets of teeth can bite. There's a washer with tabs to fold and "lock" the nut in place that the main bolt screws into, but I don't recommend using it. Torquing the nut to spec (100Nm / ~74ft-lbs) crushes the washer and you'll need to use a dremel to cut it off. Note that the bolt included isn't a torque to yield bolt, so don't do the extra 90deg after torquing to spec.

So after all was said and done, what camber was I able to get? -1.8deg! This is -1.2deg more over stock, and right in the range I was hoping for (-1.5 to -2deg). It made a very significant difference at the track this weekend and my tire wear and corner grip was noticeably improved. In addition to the two track days I had this past weekend I've also put about 1500mi on them in daily/weekend driving. I'm glad xDrive owners finally have a non-camber plate solution that you can get a respectable amount of negative camber with.

*EDIT* I finally got around to making a video on these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Index
0:00 Intro
0:36 Components and assembly
5:23 Arm/components orientation in sub frame
6:34 How to adjust camber
8:32 Design positives
10:46 Design negatives
13:17 Closing remarks

Last edited by FaRKle!; 10-03-2020 at 03:34 PM..
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      02-01-2019, 09:20 AM   #2
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Thanks for the write-up. I looked into K-Mac camber plates last year but decided against as I'd heard repeated stories of their customer support being dreadful, and the components not being particularly good quality. It sounds like you've had a better experience thus far.

Being able to get to -1.8 is a good result, and pretty much exactly what I've opted for using Millway top mounts (-1.75). Being able to keep the OEM top mount means no increase in NVH; a big plus point.

One thing that I've noticed in favour of aftermarket top mounts is improved damper response due to the lack of the OEM top mount compliance bearing. Have you had the chance to compare ?

The K-Mac camber bush looks to be a good product - presumably no need to change any other components. Good find
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      02-04-2019, 07:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Thanks for the write-up. I looked into K-Mac camber plates last year but decided against as I'd heard repeated stories of their customer support being dreadful, and the components not being particularly good quality. It sounds like you've had a better experience thus far.

Being able to get to -1.8 is a good result, and pretty much exactly what I've opted for using Millway top mounts (-1.75). Being able to keep the OEM top mount means no increase in NVH; a big plus point.

One thing that I've noticed in favour of aftermarket top mounts is improved damper response due to the lack of the OEM top mount compliance bearing. Have you had the chance to compare ?

The K-Mac camber bush looks to be a good product - presumably no need to change any other components. Good find
I can't say I'm brave enough to try K-Mac's camber plates right now either. There just aren't as many design solutions to combat the noise there while maintaining robustness.

Unfortunately I've never had anything other than the OE top mounts, so I can't speak to how different ones would affect damper response due to the more rigid connection.
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      02-05-2019, 05:39 PM   #4
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Great info.
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      02-12-2019, 09:34 PM   #5
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Man, I had forgotten about these after some folks tried them and then had issues. I was the one that was inquiring about them on the 2er side of the forum. I had a F22 228i but went to the F31 recently. I will be doing this. Thanks for the contribution to the community.
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      02-18-2019, 07:01 PM   #6
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A few questions:

1. Do these require any maintenance? Grease, etc.
2. Did you feel any increased stiffness? That might be hard to notice or describe, but I know usually these solid bushings have a noticeable feel of improved steering response and feedback from the wheels
3. Do you have any pics of it installed? It might make more sense when it's in my hands, but I had some trouble following your description for how all the washers and bolts stack up.

For me it's between these and super pro, but if you're able to install these without a press then that makes the decision easy.
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      02-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
A few questions:

1. Do these require any maintenance? Grease, etc.
2. Did you feel any increased stiffness? That might be hard to notice or describe, but I know usually these solid bushings have a noticeable feel of improved steering response and feedback from the wheels
3. Do you have any pics of it installed? It might make more sense when it's in my hands, but I had some trouble following your description for how all the washers and bolts stack up.

For me it's between these and super pro, but if you're able to install these without a press then that makes the decision easy.
1) They come with a grease packet to apply some grease to the metal main bushing before sliding the PU caps on there. I didn't read anything about having to apply more in the future. That's the only possible maintenance I see.

2) I didn't notice any significant increase in stiffness or NVH with just the camber bushings.

3) I'll grab a pic next time I'm under the car. Basically the bite washer and end washer/main bushing clamp onto the subframe mounts from either side to hold the bushing in place.

Yup, no press is required to install the K-Macs. I used a press to remove the original bushings instead of using their cup tool because I had access to one. A 32mm socket works great as a "pressing cup" for pushing the old bushings out.

I actually have my old control arms with Super-pros installed if you're interested (I was going to list them for sale soon)... If you're tracking your car, then I'd recommend going with the K-Macs, but for a street car, the Super-pros should be fine.
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      02-19-2019, 12:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
1) They come with a grease packet to apply some grease to the metal main bushing before sliding the PU caps on there. I didn't read anything about having to apply more in the future. That's the only possible maintenance I see.

2) I didn't notice any significant increase in stiffness or NVH with just the camber bushings.

3) I'll grab a pic next time I'm under the car. Basically the bite washer and end washer/main bushing clamp onto the subframe mounts from either side to hold the bushing in place.

Yup, no press is required to install the K-Macs. I used a press to remove the original bushings instead of using their cup tool because I had access to one. A 32mm socket works great as a "pressing cup" for pushing the old bushings out.

I actually have my old control arms with Super-pros installed if you're interested (I was going to list them for sale soon)... If you're tracking your car, then I'd recommend going with the K-Macs, but for a street car, the Super-pros should be fine.
Yeah definitely let me know. I'd be interested because my car is only street driven and I want to dial in camber a little more to get rid of some rubbing I have up front in the fender well. Thanks for answering all my questions.
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      02-19-2019, 11:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Yeah definitely let me know. I'd be interested because my car is only street driven and I want to dial in camber a little more to get rid of some rubbing I have up front in the fender well. Thanks for answering all my questions.
Well darn, I just did some checking and even though the bushing is the same between RWD and AWD, the wishbone arm has a different PN. I guess you can't use my set after all for your RWD 440i.
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      02-20-2019, 06:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Well darn, I just did some checking and even though the bushing is the same between RWD and AWD, the wishbone arm has a different PN. I guess you can't use my set after all for your RWD 440i.
No problem, thanks for checking. I guess I'm back to the drawing board.
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      02-22-2019, 05:36 PM   #11
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FaRKle! How much adjustment do those super-pro bushings give you? I mostly street my car but plan to do a couple track days a year as I start getting the suspension bits worked out. I'm also in an f31 albeit a gasser rather than a diesel. I think I'd still be able to use the same arms since I'm also an AWD car. If I can get some extra camber with those bushings, I'll take those arms off your hands. I'm also probably local since I'm in SFbay as well.
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      02-22-2019, 06:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
FaRKle! How much adjustment do those super-pro bushings give you? I mostly street my car but plan to do a couple track days a year as I start getting the suspension bits worked out. I'm also in an f31 albeit a gasser rather than a diesel. I think I'd still be able to use the same arms since I'm also an AWD car. If I can get some extra camber with those bushings, I'll take those arms off your hands. I'm also probably local since I'm in SFbay as well.
You can get +/- 0.5deg with the SuperPros, so that'll take you to about -1.1deg.

I'll shoot you a PM about the arms.
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      02-26-2019, 01:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
You can get +/- 0.5deg with the SuperPros, so that'll take you to about -1.1deg.

I'll shoot you a PM about the arms.
Not thread jacking, just adding my experience for the benefit of others of using the SuperPro camber adjustable bushes in an otherwise OEM setup. Camber was able to be increased from -0º57' and -0º35' to -1º15' to -1º17' (i.e around -1.25 degrees). Obviously the camber was matched L-R.

The SuperPro bushes have been in the car for >18 months without any issues (i.e. squeaking).
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      02-26-2019, 09:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Well darn, I just did some checking and even though the bushing is the same between RWD and AWD, the wishbone arm has a different PN. I guess you can't use my set after all for your RWD 440i.
Do they work for F30 335i RWD?

Where are you sourcing parts from?
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      02-26-2019, 10:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Not thread jacking, just adding my experience for the benefit of others of using the SuperPro camber adjustable bushes in an otherwise OEM setup. Camber was able to be increased from -0º57' and -0º35' to -1º15' to -1º17' (i.e around -1.25 degrees). Obviously the camber was matched L-R.

The SuperPro bushes have been in the car for >18 months without any issues (i.e. squeaking).
Wow, that's awesome you were able to get so much adjustment out of the SuperPros. I had lots of alignments done (due to me changing things up all the time) and I was never able to get more than about a half a degree extra with them. Maybe that's due to the differences in RWD and AWD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Do they work for F30 335i RWD?

Where are you sourcing parts from?
Yes, the K-Mac bushing (PN 193616-8H) works on both RWD and AWD F3x cars since they use the same bushing PN for the lower control arm/wishbone. I bought mine direct through K-Mac via email, although I know they're listed on ECS Tuning's site as well.
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      03-30-2019, 01:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
One of the things I've been chasing last year was how to get more negative camber, without having to resort to noisy camber plates.
Any more updated impressions on these KMACs? I'm looking to get these for my 135i. I read elsewhere on here that it raised your ride height by a bit as well. How does that work? It sounds perfect for my situation.

I like how they're adjustable while the suspension is loaded too.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par.../1939164h~kma/
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      03-30-2019, 02:16 PM   #17
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I had these installed two days ago and took the car to the track yesterday. My mechanic said they got to -1.75* at the front but there was more available.

This may be unrelated to the KMAC's because I had the whole alignment done, but turn in feels much better and more precise. There's no more slop either side of center on the steering.

I had been planning on installing these myself, but I'm glad I didn't because my mechanic said the tool they provide to push out the stock bushings was totally inadequate and bent. They had to use their shop press to get 'em out.

So far, so 👍🏼
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      03-30-2019, 04:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funseries View Post
Any more updated impressions on these KMACs? I'm looking to get these for my 135i. I read elsewhere on here that it raised your ride height by a bit as well. How does that work? It sounds perfect for my situation.

I like how they're adjustable while the suspension is loaded too.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par.../1939164h~kma/
These bushings are keepers IMO. I'm satisfied, and they've held up just fine to track days (have an additional track weekend next week), and off roading. I don't recall writing that they changed my ride height. If it did that was due to the change in caster it caused (the wheel gets pushed more forward in the wheel well with more negative camber).
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      03-30-2019, 04:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon69 View Post
I had these installed two days ago and took the car to the track yesterday. My mechanic said they got to -1.75* at the front but there was more available.

This may be unrelated to the KMAC's because I had the whole alignment done, but turn in feels much better and more precise. There's no more slop either side of center on the steering.

I had been planning on installing these myself, but I'm glad I didn't because my mechanic said the tool they provide to push out the stock bushings was totally inadequate and bent. They had to use their shop press to get 'em out.

So far, so 👍🏼
Yeah, the removal tool for the OE bushings would work better with some washers that can push the outer edge of the bushing. I used a 32mm long socket as a pressing cup in a press to get the OE bushings out.
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      03-30-2019, 04:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
These bushings are keepers IMO. I'm satisfied, and they've held up just fine to track days (have an additional track weekend next week), and off roading. I don't recall writing that they changed my ride height. If it did that was due to the change in caster it caused (the wheel gets pushed more forward in the wheel well with more negative camber).
Cool, thanks. Is there anything unusual involved in installing them?

I was debating wheter or not to go with the SuperPro ones since I don't actually need too much more camber, but I saw a few bad follow up posts about them on these forums.
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      03-30-2019, 05:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funseries View Post
Cool, thanks. Is there anything unusual involved in installing them?

I was debating wheter or not to go with the SuperPro ones since I don't actually need too much more camber, but I saw a few bad follow up posts about them on these forums.
Installation is super easy. Put grease on the outside of the metal cylinder/main bushing, slide an end cap on it, put that into the control arm (can do this by hand), and then slide the other end cap on from the other side. Then it's just putting the brass colored end washers on and mounting it to the subframe mount. With the SuperPro you have to press in the bushing with either a vise or press.
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      03-30-2019, 06:01 PM   #22
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So with any of these adjustable camber bushings, none of them should move the top of the wheel closer to the fender at all, is that right? I was going to go with full M3 control arms but they don't actually help with fender clearance at all.
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