[ZeroFx]

The advice on here is laughable.

S172 is worse than speeding and carries the same sentence as what they were asking you to provide the driver for.

Because of this your insurance sky rockets and the points can be worse

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Wills2

You don't have to appear in court there is no requirement to do so, however a lawyer will advise that you do with them in attendance to present your case....if you want to stand any chance of not being banned.

The lawyer that I contacted for a similar offence gave me different advice in a similar situation to the OP. I was caught doing 51 in a 30, country road, speed limit changed a few hundred yards before a village and I didn't see the sign......or the van.

The lawyer said that if you really don't want to get banned, and that is more important than decreasing the fine, then plead by post. The logic being you have to be there in person to get a ban, they would have to adjourn and ask you back on another date if they were considering that. He said that with the pressure on courts, it took months to get my first date through, they would just never do it, they'd give you the points and fine and move on.

That is exactly what happened in my case. £680 fine, which ended at £980 after all their other bolt ons and 6 points.

He said if you plead by post, and at that first hearing they do adjourn and ask you back, then this time definitely get a lawyer to attend with you. Doing it first time is just wasting money in the lawyers own opinion. Stay at home. The lawyer will cost you more than they save you, and you can't be banned sat at home.

Basically, don't lawyer up until you know you absolutely need to.....

[muffking]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

The advice on here is laughable.

S172 is worse than speeding and carries the same sentence as what they were asking you to provide the driver for.

Because of this your insurance sky rockets and the points can be worse

I would be interested to know what facts those statements are based on.

Originally Posted by JNW1

Not saying you're wrong but it doesn't make sense to me to allow someone to not name the driver and for the punishment to then be less than would be handed-out for the offence in question.

A £1k fine and 6 points is obviously a big deterrent for refusing to name the driver if the offence was (say) 40mph in a 30 limit. However, for doing the quoted 62 in a 30 I'd have thought the fine could be more than £1k (certainly for a high earner) and potentially it could be a ban rather than just points for being more than double the limit. In those circumstances would simply refusing to name the driver really be an option nowadays?

I agree in principal. It sounds strange that an S172 carries a lesser penalty, but it comes back to the point of criminality. If you don't name the driver then you get prosecuted for a different offence to the one that you may or may not have committed.


For clarity here is an extract from Pattersons Law.
The guidelines for failure to provide details offences will be six Penalty Points on a licence and a fine of up to £1000. There may be alternatives to this punishment if the offence is thought to be a deliberate attempt to pervert the course of justice. Perverting the course of justice is a far more serious offence and carries with it a maximum prison sentence of 14 years.

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by muffking

I would be interested to know what facts those statements are based on.




I agree in principal. It sounds strange that an S172 carries a lesser penalty, but it comes back to the point of criminality. If you don't name the driver then you get prosecuted for a different offence to the one that you may or may not have committed.


For clarity here is an extract from Pattersons Law.
The guidelines for failure to provide details offences will be six Penalty Points on a licence and a fine of up to £1000. There may be alternatives to this punishment if the offence is thought to be a deliberate attempt to pervert the course of justice. Perverting the course of justice is a far more serious offence and carries with it a maximum prison sentence of 14 years.

S172 is used by people to try and get away with a number of offences where they have to name the driver on a NIP. Because the insurance companies cant tell exactly which offence you were going to be done for they then sting you even harder than if you admitted the speeding.

I also think they can hand out bans and even perverting the course of justice charges if they think you are obstructing the prosecution of the offence.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

S172 is used by people to try and get away with a number of offences where they have to name the driver on a NIP. Because the insurance companies cant tell exactly which offence you were going to be done for they then sting you even harder than if you admitted the speeding.

I also think they can hand out bans and even perverting the course of justice charges if they think you are obstructing the prosecution of the offence.

I seem to recall someone who failed to identify the owner of a speeding BMW M3 or M4, who was prosecuted for failing to identify the driver (let's face it, most likely himself) of his company car earlier this year. The case was discussed on here.
He was banned for 12 months, £1000 fine.

The driver of the Ferrari (who was overtaken by the BMW driver, the Ferrari was clocked at 135, the BMW at 145) was given a 12 week ban.

So 3 month ban for the speeding, or a 12 month ban if they think you're taking the piss. Or they go the whole hog on perverting the course of justice, and you end up in prison.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Any news OP? What does the paperwork say? Court attendance? Or plead guilty by post.

nothing as yet. I sent the nip back over a week ago

[Hanchurch]

Still no news?

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by Hanchurch

Still no news?

still no news!

[Richard52]

Originally Posted by stefan4

still no news!

80 something in a 50 , took ages to come through for some reason. 6 points and a fine

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by stefan4

still no news!

Once you have sent the NIP back then there is no rush to move to next step. Suspect if it was a Fixed penalty or SAC it would be out quite quickly, but a notice to appear in court with take longer...

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Once you have sent the NIP back then there is no rush to move to next step. Suspect if it was a Fixed penalty or SAC it would be out quite quickly, but a notice to appear in court with take longer...

this is my current thinking

[t5pilot]

Originally Posted by stefan4

this is my current thinking

The courts will be busy on the run-up to Christmas, so don't hold your breath. It will be a Court summons you receive for this. Please don't have any false hopes of a fixed penalty or SAC.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by t5pilot

The courts will be busy on the run-up to Christmas, so don't hold your breath. It will be a Court summons you receive for this. Please don't have any false hopes of a fixed penalty or SAC.

Yeah I don't, I have accepted my fate.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by stefan4

Yeah I don't, I have accepted my fate.

Your speed puts it automatically at a court appearance. Technically they have 6 months from the date of the offence to let you know of the court date.

The court date itself can be outside this window, as long as you are told about it within the 6 months.

A couple of years ago I was caught speeding in April. The court summons arrived with about 4 days to go in October, for a date in December. 8 months from offence to points and fine. Luckily the points are back dated and start in April, so come back off quicker.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Your speed puts it automatically at a court appearance. Technically they have 6 months from the date of the offence to let you know of the court date.

The court date itself can be outside this window, as long as you are told about it within the 6 months.

A couple of years ago I was caught speeding in April. The court summons arrived with about 4 days to go in October, for a date in December. 8 months from offence to points and fine. Luckily the points are back dated and start in April, so come back off quicker.

bloody hell! didn't expect that kind of delay!

suppose I have chance to save some pennies!

[nik patel]

Originally Posted by stefan4

bloody hell! didn't expect that kind of delay!

suppose I have chance to save some pennies!

Hopefully you get off lightly


This post has got me thinking about my driving style lol

[Z_Victor1]

Originally Posted by Z_Victor1

This might cheer you up...

Daughter got flashed at 05:00am doing 49 in a 30 limit in a residential area, road empty....JEEEEEZ!!!

• Pled guilty
• Age 26
• First offence
• Citroen C2

Result = 3 points + £100........

She was not asked her income. Unemployed anyway, on her way to job interview (!!)

Pled guilty and responded to NIP immediately

I wish you luck mate.

And as a corollary, she's just renewed her insurance and because of her speeding conviction, her insurance has gone up by....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Wait for it
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
£15.61pa.....
.
.
.
So, don't believe all the crud you hear about speeding, fines & insurance....there are good news stories.

[Stoo]

I got caught at 77/50 in April
6pts and £867 fine

I got caught again recently at 100+ on the M5.
Facing a totting ban.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I got caught at 77/50 in April
6pts and £867 fine

I got caught again recently at 100+ on the M5.
Facing a totting ban.

I'm on 6pts and have toned it down, no more 100+ bats along the A1 when no one is about at 5am.

Thing is I've never been nicked when having a blast it's always when I'm just bimbling along in a 30 or 40 at 36 or 47, and we have roads that were NSL for 40 years that council has now dropped to 40mph, big straight roads with no houses, schools or kitten factories along them yet the war on getting home in a reasonable time continues.

Good luck.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I got caught at 77/50 in April
6pts and £867 fine

I got caught again recently at 100+ on the M5.
Facing a totting ban.

Ouch, that will be painful. But as Wills2 says, not worth the risk any more. Rarely go above 90 these days and then normally to get out of the way of some dick who has flashed me when I am. Overtaking a queue if traffic at 80....

And I still got caught at 42 in a 30 and 61 in a 50 VSL on M1 within about 12 weeks... at least I got a SAC for one of them!

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Ouch, that will be painful. But as Wills2 says, not worth the risk any more. Rarely go above 90 these days and then normally to get out of the way of some dick who has flashed me when I am. Overtaking a queue if traffic at 80....

And I still got caught at 42 in a 30 and 61 in a 50 VSL on M1 within about 12 weeks... at least I got a SAC for one of them!

So who's in for a 316d ??

come to think of it, maybe that 320d m3 conversion that the Turkish guy did is the way forward!

is anyone else utterly fed up with the totalitarian, many state that we call England these days? suggestions for more amenable countries to live in?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by stefan4

So who's in for a 316d ??

come to think of it, maybe that 320d m3 conversion that the Turkish guy did is the way forward!

is anyone else utterly fed up with the totalitarian, many state that we call England these days? suggestions for more amenable countries to live in?

I got both of those referenced in an E220d estate - its not the car but the driver.... So far not been caught or stopped in my SQ5...but then I dont do 40k miles a year now and certainly most of my driving isnt time bound. I feel Wills pain, when I was commuting up and down the M1 the thought of a 9am meeting (8.30 when my boss was being a prick!) was enough to send my licence into meltdown...