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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > B58 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > 340i / 440i (B58) BMW M Performance Power and Sound Kit (MPPSK) Official Release
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      09-13-2016, 10:41 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachima View Post
The 3195 price is port installed? With just the MPPSK it is 2,820.00 MSRP so they are adding ~400 for the install which is about what I would expect. Has anyone been quoted install prices for post delivery yet?
Yes that price is port installed.
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      09-13-2016, 11:07 PM   #68
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Im sure the videos do it no justice, my 335i sounds much better in person than in any video I've taken and the cracks a burbles sound amazing in person.
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      09-13-2016, 11:08 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr D View Post
That is exactly a thought I'm having.

Is it worth it to spend $3500 on this option or just upgrade to M3 all together?
Trust me just get the M3. You'll never regret it.
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      09-13-2016, 11:09 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by mwh2009 View Post
Definitely thinking about JB4 again. I had talked myself into the MPPSK until I saw the 6MT version was derated vs 8AT.

Wish I knew why. Can't think of a good technical reason, given that JB4 seems to make no such distinction.

And if that's the case is it a BMW product positioning thing? Can't see why that would be the case either... :
I'm guessing it's just anti-marketing of the manual. I'm willing to bet my left nut that a MPPSK MT and AT on the same Dyno would produce very similar WHTQ numbers
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      09-13-2016, 11:21 PM   #71
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The excessive over run sounds less than stellar. A little too contrived compared to my M3 MPE. Other than that, the overall tone is better.
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      09-14-2016, 12:08 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Nodge
Quote:
Originally Posted by drivethemachine View Post
Not sure I care for the machine gun sound..
From everything I've seen that video overstates the machine gun backfiring.
It's definitely not as bad as the video. It's nowhere near that in mines. Only burbles on decel for me. Especially when in Sport/Sport+ and I love it!
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      09-14-2016, 12:11 AM   #73
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That sounds nice.
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      09-14-2016, 02:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegetable View Post
I'm guessing it's just anti-marketing of the manual. I'm willing to bet my left nut that a MPPSK MT and AT on the same Dyno would produce very similar WHTQ numbers
You guys are funny... why would someone try anti-marketing their own products? The decision going for manual or auto shouldn't be dependend on some Nm of torque anyways.

As stated by others its just due to the transmissions' torque limit. The manual transmission of the E9x back then was designed for 400Nm and could handle 420Nm - exactly what the MPPK produced. The auto could handle 450Nm - exactly what the MPPK produced. The smaller version of new 8 speed auto is designed for 500Nm of torque - exactly what the MPPK delivers. So I'm willing to bet the manual just can't handle more - though I don't know the exact figure (the 6 speed manual of the N55 F3x was 450Nm and exactly what the old version of the 8 speed was capable of, hence the same output with MPPK btw).

And please don't think by exceeding those transmission limits you just need a new clutch... there are numerous little cog wheels inside designed to handle a defined force. Usually you put at least 10%-20% as a "security margin" on top to make sure even bad fabricated parts don't break. That means if all parts are solid you are fine to tune up 20% torque trying to win the lottery.

But gambling's obviously not what OEMs do. Especially not with your crazy product liability laws over there.
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      09-14-2016, 03:58 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkirsch78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris330 View Post
Had this installed last week on my 340i in the UK. Fantastic noise and boost. It puts a huge grin on your face!

The numbers I've been given states 360bhp upgrade on S-Drive and 500nm torque. But that feels undercooked vs what it's actually giving out.
Does the sound change at all in comfort vs. sport/sport+?
Absolutely. Comfort is a slightly toned down stock Sport mode, whilst Sport mode with the MPPK is loud, aggressive and a lot of fun.
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      09-14-2016, 05:03 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegetable View Post
I'm guessing it's just anti-marketing of the manual. I'm willing to bet my left nut that a MPPSK MT and AT on the same Dyno would produce very similar WHTQ numbers
You guys are funny... why would someone try anti-marketing their own products? The decision going for manual or auto shouldn't be dependend on some Nm of torque anyways.

As stated by others its just due to the transmissions' torque limit. The manual transmission of the E9x back then was designed for 400Nm and could handle 420Nm - exactly what the MPPK produced. The auto could handle 450Nm - exactly what the MPPK produced. The smaller version of new 8 speed auto is designed for 500Nm of torque - exactly what the MPPK delivers. So I'm willing to bet the manual just can't handle more - though I don't know the exact figure (the 6 speed manual of the N55 F3x was 450Nm and exactly what the old version of the 8 speed was capable of, hence the same output with MPPK btw).

And please don't think by exceeding those transmission limits you just need a new clutch... there are numerous little cog wheels inside designed to handle a defined force. Usually you put at least 10%-20% as a "security margin" on top to make sure even bad fabricated parts don't break. That means if all parts are solid you are fine to tune up 20% torque trying to win the lottery.

But gambling's obviously not what OEMs do. Especially not with your crazy product liability laws over there.
Thanks - you're right about the 6MT 335 MPPK also having a smaller TQ increase than the auto. Glad you pointed that out.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that it's not only a clutch limitation, but also a transmission torque limitation, and that the MPPK used up all of the design safety margin. (Or at least as much as the BMW factory is willing to give up)

Is this something you know, or are you speculating? Here's why I'm asking - the Internet seems full of JB4-like mods for BMW cars, not just the B58 going far, far beyond the ~20% safety margin you mentioned. And rarely (never?) do I read about manual transmission failures.

I just haven't seen anything that would make me believe that the 6MT is already tiptoeing so close to the edge of its limits. Unless BMW is just that conservative with their safety margins.

On the other side of the previous statement, I don't know what anti-marketing is, but what I meant by product positioning is very real and happens all the time in auto companies' lineups. E.g. The Porsche Cayman S can't be faster than the base 911, even when it could easily be modified to do so.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts - especially if you know something specific about the 6MT limits!
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      09-14-2016, 06:22 AM   #77
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There seems to be some confusion as to the cost of installing Port Installed Accessories. This amount is zero for ANY port option you choose, no matter how many options you choose.

Any other amount coming from your dealer's lips is bullshit. The installation cost is $0.00.

PIAs are a built-in, cost-of-doing-business item. BMWNA charges nothing to the dealer, and, more importantly, charges nothing to you for putting these items on when your car arrives at port.

I'll be getting this installed at my dealer, so I will be charged for the work being done.

Now, who has the invoice price for the U.S MPPSK?
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      09-14-2016, 06:34 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivethemachine
Not sure I care for the machine gun sound..
Agreed. Ghetto.
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      09-14-2016, 06:37 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyasaxa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyasaxa
BMW isn't paying to replace your clutch if you go JB4... That's why.
Jb4 is not detectable when taken off. I don't think they will replace a clutch stock. Is that not considered a wear item like tires?
BMW reduced the power for the manual on the MPPK because the manual transmission clutch would have a shorter lifespan with the increased torque. The JB4 guys don't care about the life of your clutch. I think maybe you were skimming past the context of my remark. Hopefully this clarifies it.
How would increased torque shorten the life of your clutch, unless it were slipping? If there's a risk of it slipping, then the clutch is simply underrated.
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      09-14-2016, 06:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyasaxa
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwh2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xccelerate
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwh2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Nodge
Quote:
Originally Posted by drivethemachine View Post
Not sure I care for the machine gun sound..
From everything I've seen that video overstates the machine gun backfiring.
Yeah - don't need that - just want the power.

Wish there was a power and a little bit of sound option.

#firstworldproblems
Jb4 will get that 340 cruising
Definitely thinking about JB4 again. I had talked myself into the MPPSK until I saw the 6MT version was derated vs 8AT.

Wish I knew why. Can't think of a good technical reason, given that JB4 seems to make no such distinction.

And if that's the case is it a BMW product positioning thing? Can't see why that would be the case either... :
BMW isn't paying to replace your clutch if you go JB4... That's why.
Jb4 is not detectable when taken off. I don't think they will replace a clutch stock. Is that not considered a wear item like tires?
Um, sorry. But you're completely wrong about that.

The car will always register, along with other items, the over boost that the car runs.

If they look deep enough they will ALWAYS see that any tune was put on the car.
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      09-14-2016, 06:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
Well I wouldve got this PIA had it come earlier but now I really have to think it over given only a 2 yr warranty and a 3 grand price tag.. maybe I'll wait on this one to see what first adopters in the US think.
Reread the warranty part.

Quote:
The kit is available for port install on new vehicles, and comes with a 4 yr / 50k mile warranty when purchased with new vehicle. If purchased after delivery, the warranty is 2 years / unlimited miles or the balance of the new vehicle warranty, whichever is greater.
The warranty is the full 4 years 50k miles when added as a PIA. If you get it installed at your dealer it's 2 years no mileage limit OR the remainder of your warranty WHICHEVER is greater.

If you took delivery a week ago and got this installed by your dealer it would carry a 3 year 51 week 50k - current mileage warranty.
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      09-14-2016, 07:18 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
Um, sorry. But you're completely wrong about that.

The car will always register, along with other items, the over boost that the car runs.
I thought the JB4 intercepted the boost pressure signal and lied about it?

Quote:
If they look deep enough they will ALWAYS see that any tune was put on the car.
But there probably are still ways, IF they look deep enough, as you say.
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      09-14-2016, 08:39 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultraveler00 View Post
Parts are coming into the dealer tomorrow and I have an installation appointment on Monday. Hopefully everything goes smoothly. I will dyno before and after.
This!!!
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      09-14-2016, 08:56 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid_Ice View Post
I got a quote from my CA - MSRP is $3195 + $300 for the Chrome tips (more if you want the Carbon Fiber tips).

I am getting it for ~$2700 - so $1500 more than I would have gotten just the MPE Axleback exhaust for. Probably not worth it when you consider how much Jb4 is, but since it is a lease - it will actually only cost me $15 more a month for 36 months or $540 versus the cost of the car with MPE ... So when you look at it that way - totally worth it!
Was the $2700 invoice price for PIA or just a negotiated number? Must be pretty close looks like you got 20%+ off
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      09-14-2016, 09:33 AM   #85
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I don't understand the tips being an additional charge???

What is the alternative??

To use the tips that come with the car from the factory?

If not, why not just bundle the chrome tips into the package, and make the CF tips an additional charge?
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      09-14-2016, 10:04 AM   #86
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While there seems to be a lot of security around having the new mapping installed(10 code attempts only etc) does anyone know how susceptible the new ECU mapping is to being removed by the dealership?

For example when I took my car in for a drivetrain malfunction my invoice said 'completely reprogrammed car' but they assure me the mapping is separate and wasn't affected.

Is there any type of report that can be request to assure the mapping is still in place? Something like the equivalent of a firmware version on other computer devices that can be flashed.
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      09-14-2016, 10:10 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachima
While there seems to be a lot of security around having the new mapping installed(10 code attempts only etc) does anyone know how susceptible the new ECU mapping is to being removed by the dealership?

For example when I took my car in for a drivetrain malfunction my invoice said 'completely reprogrammed car' but they assure me the mapping is separate and wasn't affected.

Is there any type of report that can be request to assure the mapping is still in place? Something like the equivalent of a firmware version on other computer devices that can be flashed.
Great question - especially on the 6MT where the difference in performance would be more subtle
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      09-14-2016, 10:14 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
I don't understand the tips being an additional charge???

What is the alternative??

To use the tips that come with the car from the factory?

If not, why not just bundle the chrome tips into the package, and make the CF tips an additional charge?
So, you want people who want the carbon tips to pay an additional $250, while the people who get the chrome tips don't pay anything extra? Makes perfect sense.
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