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      12-03-2018, 05:12 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I think there's a mis-understanding.

Let's take this particular scenario. You buy a Mann (non-BMW but compatible) oil filter to be used in your BMW. You install that oil filter and the Mann oil filter's media breaks apart and gets sucked into the crank case. Your BMW engine is damaged because the Mann oil filter has failed.

Assume this is a case where it's clear that the non-BMW part was the root cause of the failure.

BMW is not responsible for that damage. It was not a BMW part that caused the failure. It was a Mann part that caused the engine failure. Therefore, you, as the consumer, would have to go to Mann to seek damages.

I think you're mis-understanding that case with one in which a BMW part fails and they deny your warranty because you used a Mann oil filter.

Is this clear now?
I'm clear, we just disagree on the resolution.

Most parts are not made by BMW. It's all purchased by BMW and then rebranded. So I don't know the brand that makes the OEM filter, but like you said it might be Mann. Typically for something as high volume as a filter, it could be more than one supplier.

If the filter is found to be a Mann filter, then they (BMW) would seek damages from the supplier (Mann or otherwise). On the corporate end, the next step is BMW has to prove that the part failed due to a manufacturing defect as well. They'll go back and forth until they come to an agreement, or sometimes the cost is just split down the middle when no resolution is found. So again, none of it is just cut and dry as far as who owns the cost.

But at no point does the owner have to seek damages from specific parties when using OEM compatible parts. As a supplier for an OEM, you sign a contract to get the designs that are needed to make compatible parts and promise to support these kinds of warranty claims. That is what allows you to sell the parts under an OEM part number. That goes for every supplier that you see listed on sites like ECS, Rockauto, etc.
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      12-03-2018, 06:09 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
I'm clear, we just disagree on the resolution.

Most parts are not made by BMW. It's all purchased by BMW and then rebranded. So I don't know the brand that makes the OEM filter, but like you said it might be Mann. Typically for something as high volume as a filter, it could be more than one supplier.

If the filter is found to be a Mann filter, then they (BMW) would seek damages from the supplier (Mann or otherwise). On the corporate end, the next step is BMW has to prove that the part failed due to a manufacturing defect as well. They'll go back and forth until they come to an agreement, or sometimes the cost is just split down the middle when no resolution is found. So again, none of it is just cut and dry as far as who owns the cost.

But at no point does the owner have to seek damages from specific parties when using OEM compatible parts. As a supplier for an OEM, you sign a contract to get the designs that are needed to make compatible parts and promise to support these kinds of warranty claims. That is what allows you to sell the parts under an OEM part number. That goes for every supplier that you see listed on sites like ECS, Rockauto, etc.
If the filter is found to be made and branded as a Mann filter, it's on the customer to seek damages from Mann if the Mann filter but BMW compatible filter is found to be the root cause of the engine damage. BMW has no obligation to warranty a defective non-BMW branded item or any resulting damage from that defective non-BMW branded item regardless of whether it is "BMW compatible" or not. In this case, you'll have to deal with the part manufacturer (Mann in this case) and a shop for the repair if you cannot repair the damaged components yourself.

If the filter is found to be made by Mann but branded by BMW ("Genuine BMW part"), it's on BMW to make the customer good if the Mann manufactured but BMW branded filter is found to be the root cause of engine damage. BMW can seek damages from the supplier of the BMW branded part later on. But you, as the owner, just have to deal with the BMW dealership for a warranty claim.


The same case could be applied to BMW branded engine oil vs OEM branded engine oil. However, a dealership service department can't tell the difference between BMW branded engine oil and OEM branded engine oil after it has been drained simply based on a visual inspection. They may not be able to tell even after oil analysis if the two products are truly identical.

This isn't necessarily the case for the oil filters as oil filter is labeled/packaged with slight variations in branding and text that any non blind person can see.

If BMW were to warranty any resulting damage from a "BMW compatible" item, there's no point to purchase a Genuine BMW part at all. It wouldn't make sense.

At the end of the day, here's how I see it. I may take the risk on a OEM part like a strut top mount, wheel bearing, etc. An OEM part where the potential damage from a defective part is easy to diagnose and the damage would be minimal in terms of cost to remedy. If the cost difference between a Genuine BMW oil filter and a BMW compatible oil filter is $3, that's peanuts compared to the potential repair costs of a catastrophic powertrain failure which may result from the use of a non Genuine BMW part. That's a no brainer.

But if you've already done something to your car like an aftermarket ECU tune where BMW would void your warranty anyways, then whatever.

Last edited by Polo08816; 12-03-2018 at 06:16 PM..
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      12-04-2018, 07:47 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
If BMW were to warranty any resulting damage from a "BMW compatible" item, there's no point to purchase a Genuine BMW part at all. It wouldn't make sense.
Man, you can go on believing that. I told you I worked for an OEM and a supplier. No matter how much you think it doesn't work like that, it does. There is no point to buying OEM. The only reason people do is because they are stuck in a mindset like yours or they just don't know that there are other options. BMW is REQUIRED BY LAW to support other options so that it is more fair to the consumer. All you really need is appropriate paperwork and receipts to show that you followed the recommended maintenance. There are virtually 0 parts that only have 1 option for use. Everything from tires to fluids to suspension to powertrain.

Look at it another way. What really wouldn't make sense is BMW allowing other companies to make parts to their design and with their tooling to undercut their sales on OEM parts. If they weren't required by law, they would be suing and shutting down all of the companies selling parts with their part numbers.

If you still don't believe me, that's up to you. But I'm presenting facts man. They got one thing right on this one, so I would hope more people would want to be aware. But ultimately our free maintenance seems to coincide with the warranty period more or less, so there is little to no reason to pay for either option under warranty.
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      12-04-2018, 08:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Man, you can go on believing that. I told you I worked for an OEM and a supplier. No matter how much you think it doesn't work like that, it does. There is no point to buying OEM. The only reason people do is because they are stuck in a mindset like yours or they just don't know that there are other options. BMW is REQUIRED BY LAW to support other options so that it is more fair to the consumer. All you really need is appropriate paperwork and receipts to show that you followed the recommended maintenance. There are virtually 0 parts that only have 1 option for use. Everything from tires to fluids to suspension to powertrain.

Look at it another way. What really wouldn't make sense is BMW allowing other companies to make parts to their design and with their tooling to undercut their sales on OEM parts. If they weren't required by law, they would be suing and shutting down all of the companies selling parts with their part numbers.

If you still don't believe me, that's up to you. But I'm presenting facts man. They got one thing right on this one, so I would hope more people would want to be aware. But ultimately our free maintenance seems to coincide with the warranty period more or less, so there is little to no reason to pay for either option under warranty.
Again, this is true if the root cause was a Genuine BMW part that failed and caused a cascading set of expensive failures afterwards. BMW may inquire about your maintenance and documentation.

If your non-Genuine BMW part was the root cause of the failure and caused a cascading set of expensive failures afterwards, BMW is not financially liable for any of that. That's the risk you're taking with non-Genuine BMW parts and it's up to you to decide whether the savings is worth it.

BMW is not certifying each and every product that some supplier claims as "BMW compatible".

As for warranty and maintenance, I purchased the extended BMW Platinum 5 year / 100k mile warranty. Maintenance only lasted for the new car warranty period. Other than that, the extended warranty was well worth it's price. I've had some big jobs done under that extended warranty such as a transmission replacement, oil pan gasket replacement (need to lower front subframe), etc.

I would only use a OEM part if it was reasonable to believe that if the part were defective, resulting damage would be limited and easy to diagnose and the savings were worth it.

I don't think that's the case with a Genuine BMW oil filter versus a BMW compatible oil filter. It's a $2-3 savings per oil filter. If your car lasts 200,000 miles and you're doing an oil filter change every 5,000 miles, you're only saving $120 through the entire life of the car by going with an OEM non BMW branded oil filter. The savings is not worth my time for that particular part.

Last edited by Polo08816; 12-04-2018 at 08:58 AM..
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      12-05-2018, 05:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Man, you can go on believing that. I told you I worked for an OEM and a supplier. No matter how much you think it doesn't work like that, it does. There is no point to buying OEM. The only reason people do is because they are stuck in a mindset like yours or they just don't know that there are other options. BMW is REQUIRED BY LAW to support other options so that it is more fair to the consumer. All you really need is appropriate paperwork and receipts to show that you followed the recommended maintenance. There are virtually 0 parts that only have 1 option for use. Everything from tires to fluids to suspension to powertrain.

Look at it another way. What really wouldn't make sense is BMW allowing other companies to make parts to their design and with their tooling to undercut their sales on OEM parts. If they weren't required by law, they would be suing and shutting down all of the companies selling parts with their part numbers.

If you still don't believe me, that's up to you. But I'm presenting facts man. They got one thing right on this one, so I would hope more people would want to be aware. But ultimately our free maintenance seems to coincide with the warranty period more or less, so there is little to no reason to pay for either option under warranty.
Again, this is true if the root cause was a Genuine BMW part that failed and caused a cascading set of expensive failures afterwards. BMW may inquire about your maintenance and documentation.

If your non-Genuine BMW part was the root cause of the failure and caused a cascading set of expensive failures afterwards, BMW is not financially liable for any of that. That's the risk you're taking with non-Genuine BMW parts and it's up to you to decide whether the savings is worth it.

BMW is not certifying each and every product that some supplier claims as "BMW compatible".

As for warranty and maintenance, I purchased the extended BMW Platinum 5 year / 100k mile warranty. Maintenance only lasted for the new car warranty period. Other than that, the extended warranty was well worth it's price. I've had some big jobs done under that extended warranty such as a transmission replacement, oil pan gasket replacement (need to lower front subframe), etc.

I would only use a OEM part if it was reasonable to believe that if the part were defective, resulting damage would be limited and easy to diagnose and the savings were worth it.

I don't think that's the case with a Genuine BMW oil filter versus a BMW compatible oil filter. It's a $2-3 savings per oil filter. If your car lasts 200,000 miles and you're doing an oil filter change every 5,000 miles, you're only saving $120 through the entire life of the car by going with an OEM non BMW branded oil filter. The savings is not worth my time for that particular part.
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Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
If BMW were to warranty any resulting damage from a "BMW compatible" item, there's no point to purchase a Genuine BMW part at all. It wouldn't make sense.
Man, you can go on believing that. I told you I worked for an OEM and a supplier. No matter how much you think it doesn't work like that, it does. There is no point to buying OEM. The only reason people do is because they are stuck in a mindset like yours or they just don't know that there are other options. BMW is REQUIRED BY LAW to support other options so that it is more fair to the consumer. All you really need is appropriate paperwork and receipts to show that you followed the recommended maintenance. There are virtually 0 parts that only have 1 option for use. Everything from tires to fluids to suspension to powertrain.

Look at it another way. What really wouldn't make sense is BMW allowing other companies to make parts to their design and with their tooling to undercut their sales on OEM parts. If they weren't required by law, they would be suing and shutting down all of the companies selling parts with their part numbers.

If you still don't believe me, that's up to you. But I'm presenting facts man. They got one thing right on this one, so I would hope more people would want to be aware. But ultimately our free maintenance seems to coincide with the warranty period more or less, so there is little to no reason to pay for either option under warranty.

BMW doesn't warranty the performance of non-OEM parts nor any associated damage from the use thereof. I think you two are talking about different things.
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      12-05-2018, 05:17 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
BMW doesn't warranty the performance of non-OEM parts nor any associated damage from the use thereof. I think you two are talking about different things.
+1.

To be clear, I would just refer to the parts as either Genuine BMW (BMW branded) or OEM (potential BMW supplier, but not BMW branded) parts.

I think we can all agree that BMW should not deny your warranty if a BMW branded component failed (root cause) and you have been using an OEM part which did not cause the failure.

Would you agree that BMW would not warranty the defect of a non-BMW branded part or any associated damage from the use thereof?
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      12-05-2018, 06:20 PM   #73
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No, he would not. He seems to think that a manufacturer should be responsible all the way, no matter what mods one does to the product, as long as the owner believes it did not and cannot cause a damage.
He also does not understand that there is no such thing as „OEM parts" based on an unilaterally stated equivalency to a BMW part number. There are BMW approved parts and BMW non-approved parts. The latter are installed at own risk and any damage they cause OR contribute to is not warranted by BMW.
Simple as that. And unfortunately, manufacturers do take advantage of installed non-approved parts to deny warranty.
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Last edited by Skyhigh; 12-06-2018 at 03:26 AM..
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      12-07-2018, 09:14 AM   #74
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When either of you work for an OEM and complete a qualification for a component, go through a recall, or any other actual warranty work, i'll listen to you. You have presented no facts, only opinions. It's clear that you don't know how quality control and supply chain works on the OEM side. So it's up to you on what you choose to believe, but I've been in it first hand for years. At no point could I or any of my peers deny a warranty claim because a part wasn't provided in a BMW box. It's a government mandated standard that all cars sold in the US must comply with. We paid the warranty claim, and then resolved the failure with the supplier. That's why every part includes and OEM part number, a supplier part number, and a supplier code. That is what the OEM uses to chase back quality issues.

Maybe that's the part you're missing, because BMW is not just blindly taking on costs for supplier defects. Like I said, we charge claims back to the supplier or initiate projects to identify the root cause to prove whether it was a design or manufacturing defect. That stops short in situations like the OP is in, which means there are potential issues that are never investigated or solved. And like the instances presented above with failing OEM components causing failures on modified cars, that's a really messed up situation to support on the OEM side. You know what the right thing to do is, but the customer gets screwed on a technicality. So yes, I disagree with how that is handled.

This will be my last try at explaining how it works to you guys. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. But I'm not the one that's confused here.
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      12-07-2018, 11:29 AM   #75
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I haven't read all this crap, but it sounds like you're saying, "geniune bmw" vs lemforder et.al. is a wash, as the parts both implement the same spec, and therefore are blessed enough to carry the same OEM part number. So from a warranty claim it's all the same.

But they're saying "geniune bmw" is in for warranty vs lemforder is out, even though it's the same part # and the same spec, just a different supplier.
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      12-07-2018, 01:56 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
When either of you work for an OEM and complete a qualification for a component, go through a recall, or any other actual warranty work, i'll listen to you. You have presented no facts, only opinions. It's clear that you don't know how quality control and supply chain works on the OEM side. So it's up to you on what you choose to believe, but I've been in it first hand for years. At no point could I or any of my peers deny a warranty claim because a part wasn't provided in a BMW box. It's a government mandated standard that all cars sold in the US must comply with. We paid the warranty claim, and then resolved the failure with the supplier. That's why every part includes and OEM part number, a supplier part number, and a supplier code. That is what the OEM uses to chase back quality issues.

Maybe that's the part you're missing, because BMW is not just blindly taking on costs for supplier defects. Like I said, we charge claims back to the supplier or initiate projects to identify the root cause to prove whether it was a design or manufacturing defect. That stops short in situations like the OP is in, which means there are potential issues that are never investigated or solved. And like the instances presented above with failing OEM components causing failures on modified cars, that's a really messed up situation to support on the OEM side. You know what the right thing to do is, but the customer gets screwed on a technicality. So yes, I disagree with how that is handled.

This will be my last try at explaining how it works to you guys. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. But I'm not the one that's confused here.
That's your "opinion" and based on the feedback above it's in the minority.

You can choose to believe your set of "facts" if you want to. No one is going to stop you.

Whether you are right or wrong is one thing, whether what you're actually saying is how things play out in the real world is another.

At the end of the day, there are some parts with such a small delta between Genuine BMW pricing vs. OEM pricing and potentially huge costs if the part fails that it's simply not worth taking a chance on an OEM part particularly when your car is under a BMW warranty. Then there's other parts where the OEM part is significantly less expensive than the Genuine BMW part and the potential for damage from a defect is minor... that's worthwhile considering the OEM option.
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      12-10-2018, 10:29 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
When either of you work for an OEM and complete a qualification for a component, go through a recall, or any other actual warranty work, i'll listen to you. You have presented no facts, only opinions. It's clear that you don't know how quality control and supply chain works on the OEM side. So it's up to you on what you choose to believe, but I've been in it first hand for years. At no point could I or any of my peers deny a warranty claim because a part wasn't provided in a BMW box. It's a government mandated standard that all cars sold in the US must comply with. We paid the warranty claim, and then resolved the failure with the supplier. That's why every part includes and OEM part number, a supplier part number, and a supplier code. That is what the OEM uses to chase back quality issues.

Maybe that's the part you're missing, because BMW is not just blindly taking on costs for supplier defects. Like I said, we charge claims back to the supplier or initiate projects to identify the root cause to prove whether it was a design or manufacturing defect. That stops short in situations like the OP is in, which means there are potential issues that are never investigated or solved. And like the instances presented above with failing OEM components causing failures on modified cars, that's a really messed up situation to support on the OEM side. You know what the right thing to do is, but the customer gets screwed on a technicality. So yes, I disagree with how that is handled.

This will be my last try at explaining how it works to you guys. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. But I'm not the one that's confused here.
Basically what you're saying is if I buy a bad batch of correctly serialized Bosh plugs which damage my engine, BMW will warranty the repairs if my vehicle is within the factory warranty period?
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      12-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #78
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What happen to the OP and the second dealer?
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      12-10-2018, 05:40 PM   #79
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What happen to the OP and the second dealer?
Most likely the same results as the first dealer, probably at an independent shop by now.
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      12-11-2018, 05:44 AM   #80
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Basically what you're saying is if I buy a bad batch of correctly serialized Bosh plugs which damage my engine, BMW will warranty the repairs if my vehicle is within the factory warranty period?
Yes. It is illegal for BMW to mandate that BMW-branded hardware be used on your car. The only case they can is if they have patented designs/process that they can prove that only they can manufacture due to complex design or whatever. That's why when you look up specs for oil, coolant, plugs, etc. in your service manual, it typically says "or equivalent."
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      12-11-2018, 06:03 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Basically what you're saying is if I buy a bad batch of correctly serialized Bosh plugs which damage my engine, BMW will warranty the repairs if my vehicle is within the factory warranty period?
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Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Yes. It is illegal for BMW to mandate that BMW-branded hardware be used on your car. The only case they can is if they have patented designs/process that they can prove that only they can manufacture due to complex design or whatever. That's why when you look up specs for oil, coolant, plugs, etc. in your service manual, it typically says "or equivalent."
What F32Fleet and myself (and everyone else) are trying to say is that what you're saying is partly true. BMW can't "mandate" you use their BMW branded hardware on your car. BMW also can't void your warranty if something in the car fails and they observe that you have a non-BMW branded item installed and it's unrelated to the failure.

However, if non-BMW branded hardware that you chose to use fails or is defective and causes a cascade of other failures, BMW is not responsible for all that damage regardless of whether the non-BMW branded hardware manufacturer specifies/claims it's "equivalent". It's the non BMW branded hardware manufacturer that is responsible in this case. That's the risk you assume when using non BMW branded hardware. In some cases, it's worth the risk, in other cases, it's not.

I think that's pretty clear and universally accepted judging from the previous posts.
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      12-11-2018, 06:52 AM   #82
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Basically what you're saying is if I buy a bad batch of correctly serialized Bosh plugs which damage my engine, BMW will warranty the repairs if my vehicle is within the factory warranty period?
Yes. It is illegal for BMW to mandate that BMW-branded hardware be used on your car. The only case they can is if they have patented designs/process that they can prove that only they can manufacture due to complex design or whatever. That's why when you look up specs for oil, coolant, plugs, etc. in your service manual, it typically says "or equivalent."
For some reason I thought I already knew this.

So in my example BMW would pay for everything except for new plugs. Would BMW then bill Bosch for the repair work? .

So how do the OEM's protect themselves from counterfeit/3rd shift/non-oe spec parts?
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      12-11-2018, 09:05 AM   #83
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For some reason I thought I already knew this.

So in my example BMW would pay for everything except for new plugs. Would BMW then bill Bosch for the repair work? .

So how do the OEM's protect themselves from counterfeit/3rd shift/non-oe spec parts?
The dealer pays for everything (really just parts) and sends a bill to the OEM. The OEM then pays for everything (parts + labor) and bills the supplier. The supplier also has to pay for 3rd party inspection and other increased quality measures until the issue is resolved. The rule of thumb is always to rectify the issue as quickly as possible, then find root cause later and sort out the financial portion in the background. Ideally the dealer/customer should never be left hanging waiting for approval to fix the car.

Now If the OEM reads a service write up that indicates the car was modified in a way that voids the warranty, then they will deny the claim. We typically requested parts be returned to us for analysis so we can verify it is an approved part and see if it was modified. Or in the OP's case, they often send field techs to review the vehicle before paying out the claim since the cost is so high.

If the OEM bills a supplier and the supplier say it's a design issue or installation issue at the factory that isn't their responsibility, they can deny the claim as well. For example, if the returned part shows signs of damage indicating that it was installed with improper tools, or the dealer comments that the part wasn't screwed in/clipped in properly. Then it's up to the OEM to either prove that the supplier is at fault or fix the issue with other measures. The supplier then does a chargeback for all incurred expenses due to the claim.

Ultimately the suppliers get the worst end of the deal. it's guilty until proven innocent at that point. And especially frustrating when engineers aren't cooperating or doing their due diligence in the investigation. A lot of times you can't tell if a part was damaged during manufacturing, installation or removal. So you really rely on the dealer's wording to understand what happened. But an easy one is if we didn't see the right supplier code/part number on the part, it wasn't ours. and it's the OEM's responsibility to chase the right one. that was rare, but it happened.

In the case of the filter example, you can't always tell (especially if the part was destroyed during the failure). But virtually every OEM part drawing includes an area for an OEM part number and/or some marking indicating compatibility. If, for example, an intake manifold was returned with no markings then we'd know it's not approved. But if it is sold under the OEM part number like what you see on ECS, RockAuto, etc., then it is approved.

The reason why some dealers are "mod-friendly" is because they're not stupid. They know they will get paid for service as long as they don't put in the service writeup that they replaced parts on a modified car. And usually those are the dealers that are honest about what caused the repair because they actually check into what happened and find the root cause of the issue.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      12-11-2018, 08:19 PM   #84
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scroll to 14:30 to get to the meat.


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      12-12-2018, 10:49 AM   #85
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Yep. Like I said, all the facts are there and have been presented. Standard warranty claims are never based on labor and parts. Whoever owns the failed part/process, owns the labor to repair too. That's the primary reason why special tools are designed. It reduces warranty spend by reducing time to replace components that fail often. Making it easier for a technicians is just an additional benefit.

But it's up to the other commenters whether they feel like believing that or not. The OEMs still know they have the upper hand in making that call and no doubt it can be difficult to have them uphold what's right. But that doesn't make what they're doing, right. Like in the OP's case, just looking at anything attached to the engine and claiming it caused it to blow up is very, very wrong.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      12-12-2018, 01:09 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
The dealer pays for everything (really just parts) and sends a bill to the OEM. The OEM then pays for everything (parts + labor) and bills the supplier. The supplier also has to pay for 3rd party inspection and other increased quality measures until the issue is resolved. The rule of thumb is always to rectify the issue as quickly as possible, then find root cause later and sort out the financial portion in the background. Ideally the dealer/customer should never be left hanging waiting for approval to fix the car.

Now If the OEM reads a service write up that indicates the car was modified in a way that voids the warranty, then they will deny the claim. We typically requested parts be returned to us for analysis so we can verify it is an approved part and see if it was modified. Or in the OP's case, they often send field techs to review the vehicle before paying out the claim since the cost is so high.

If the OEM bills a supplier and the supplier say it's a design issue or installation issue at the factory that isn't their responsibility, they can deny the claim as well. For example, if the returned part shows signs of damage indicating that it was installed with improper tools, or the dealer comments that the part wasn't screwed in/clipped in properly. Then it's up to the OEM to either prove that the supplier is at fault or fix the issue with other measures. The supplier then does a chargeback for all incurred expenses due to the claim.

Ultimately the suppliers get the worst end of the deal. it's guilty until proven innocent at that point. And especially frustrating when engineers aren't cooperating or doing their due diligence in the investigation. A lot of times you can't tell if a part was damaged during manufacturing, installation or removal. So you really rely on the dealer's wording to understand what happened. But an easy one is if we didn't see the right supplier code/part number on the part, it wasn't ours. and it's the OEM's responsibility to chase the right one. that was rare, but it happened.

In the case of the filter example, you can't always tell (especially if the part was destroyed during the failure). But virtually every OEM part drawing includes an area for an OEM part number and/or some marking indicating compatibility. If, for example, an intake manifold was returned with no markings then we'd know it's not approved. But if it is sold under the OEM part number like what you see on ECS, RockAuto, etc., then it is approved.

The reason why some dealers are "mod-friendly" is because they're not stupid. They know they will get paid for service as long as they don't put in the service writeup that they replaced parts on a modified car. And usually those are the dealers that are honest about what caused the repair because they actually check into what happened and find the root cause of the issue.
This makes sense in the case of the OEM using the supplier's parts and re-branding it as the vehicle manufacturer's parts. It seems like your experience involves working at/for an actual vehicle manufacturer supplier dealing with parts returned under a new car warranty.

Also, I wouldn't trust all the parts listed on ECS, RockAuto, etc. as truly having an equivalency with a BMW part number.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...il+filter,5340

You're telling me you're going to trust Ultra-Power, Champion Labs, EcoGuard, [insert whatever other off-brand $2-4 filter] as being equivalent. I'm not confident BMW certified all of those to be equivalent and if they did, where's the proof other than that particular aftermarket supplier claiming it's equivalent. It's on you to prove the part is equivalent.

I would, however, trust Mann because I've seen Genuine BMW branded oil filters have "Mann" stamped on them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Yep. Like I said, all the facts are there and have been presented. Standard warranty claims are never based on labor and parts. Whoever owns the failed part/process, owns the labor to repair too. That's the primary reason why special tools are designed. It reduces warranty spend by reducing time to replace components that fail often. Making it easier for a technicians is just an additional benefit.

But it's up to the other commenters whether they feel like believing that or not. The OEMs still know they have the upper hand in making that call and no doubt it can be difficult to have them uphold what's right. But that doesn't make what they're doing, right. Like in the OP's case, just looking at anything attached to the engine and claiming it caused it to blow up is very, very wrong.
I don't think you watched the video that F32Fleet posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
scroll to 14:30 to get to the meat.


Transcription: "If it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly and it causes damage to another part that's covered under the warranty the manufacturer a dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for the repairs."

This is precisely the point we were making and the video seems to support that.
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      12-12-2018, 01:34 PM   #87
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Quote:
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I don't think you watched the video that F32Fleet posted.

Transcription: "If it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly and it causes damage to another part that's covered under the warranty the manufacturer a dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for the repairs."

This is precisely the point we were making and the video seems to support that.
At least I watched from the beginning. Starting @ 1:50:

"Let's suppose you buy a Ford Mustang and you decide put a turbocharger on it. It didn't come with a turbocharger and you boost the heck out of it. And the engine explodes and it's obviously caused by all that boost. They could say that aftermarket part you put on the car caused the damage clearly. What they're getting at is not that it wasn't a Ford turbocharger, it's that it's a turbocharger not appropriate for that car.

On the other hand, if you take your car to a place to get the oil changed and they didn't use a Ford oil filter, as long as they used an oil filter that's appropriate, that won't void your warranty."

So all he's doing is supporting the OP's case. Which is still messed up, because they can't prove that the intake caused the engine failure.
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      12-12-2018, 01:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
At least I watched from the beginning. Starting @ 1:50:

"Let's suppose you buy a Ford Mustang and you decide put a turbocharger on it. It didn't come with a turbocharger and you boost the heck out of it. And the engine explodes and it's obviously caused by all that boost. They could say that aftermarket part you put on the car caused the damage clearly. What they're getting at is not that it wasn't a Ford turbocharger, it's that it's a turbocharger not appropriate for that car.

On the other hand, if you take your car to a place to get the oil changed and they didn't use a Ford oil filter, as long as they used an oil filter that's appropriate, that won't void your warranty."

So all he's doing is supporting the OP's case. Which is still messed up, because they can't prove that the intake caused the engine failure.
I started at the beginning as well because I mistook the 14:13 for ~ 1:43

That's correct. Until you're in a situation where that non-Ford oil filter failed and resulted in additional damage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
This makes sense in the case of the OEM using the supplier's parts and re-branding it as the vehicle manufacturer's parts. It seems like your experience involves working at/for an actual vehicle manufacturer supplier dealing with parts returned under a new car warranty.

Also, I wouldn't trust all the parts listed on ECS, RockAuto, etc. as truly having an equivalency with a BMW part number.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...il+filter,5340

You're telling me you're going to trust Ultra-Power, Champion Labs, EcoGuard, [insert whatever other off-brand $2-4 filter] as being equivalent. I'm not confident BMW certified all of those to be equivalent and if they did, where's the proof other than that particular aftermarket supplier claiming it's equivalent. It's on you to prove the part is equivalent.

I would, however, trust Mann because I've seen Genuine BMW branded oil filters have "Mann" stamped on them as well.



I don't think you watched the video that F32Fleet posted.



Transcription: "If it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly and it causes damage to another part that's covered under the warranty the manufacturer a dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for the repairs."

This is precisely the point we were making and the video seems to support that.
Then you, as the end user and aftermarket part manufacturer are on the hook for the damage, not the vehicle manufacturer under the factory warranty.
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