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      12-14-2018, 02:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
It is MORE convenient. I've been doing it for 5 years. I do it SPECIFICALLY because it is much more convenient. I unplug the car when I leave in the morning and I plug it back in when I get home in the evening. Are you calling me a liar?

We have rebuilt lots of stuff in our infrastructure because "PROGRESS". We have rebuilt our electrical transmissions systems numerous time (or do you still have fuses instead of breakers, or cotton insulated wires in YOUR house?) We have changed our television transmission systems (analog to digital), cell phone transmission systems (CDMA/TDMA to GSM), Radio broadcast systems (AM/FM to Satellite), Navigation (Maps to GPS), Fuel (Corn/Oats to Gasoline to Electric), and so many other systems in the name of PROGRESS.

NETFLIX "served us so well" when they mailed us DVD's - now they have changed their delivery system to streaming. See? PROGRESS.

PROGRESS because it is more convenient, flexible, functional, reliable, cheaper, or better for the planet.

I can effectively run my EV on Solar Power, Wind Power, Geothermal, Nuclear, etc. You simply don't have that option with an ICE.

I'm curious what the source of your Rant is and what agenda its trying to bolster. I've been running EV's for 5 years quite simply cause its much more convenient. All the rest (saving the planet, etc) is just gravy...

Get over it.
So it's great that it works for you, and it may be the future but it's a long way off, same for autonomous cars.

When the government started offering rebates for EV's they said they wanted 10% of all the cars in Ontario to be EV's in 5 years as I recall. Toronto Hydro commented that 10% EV's would collapse the grid in Toronto. Some of the other issues that have come up in Toronto and I suspect other older cities is the lack of ability to get cars plugged in as many homes only have street parking and not reserved. There have been a number of folks with EV;s that can't get them charged at home as they may have to park blocks away. The city also won't allow folks to run charging outlets out to the street.

And I don't need to get over anything, I'm happy with my diesel.
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      12-14-2018, 02:24 PM   #46
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Most actual EV owners charge their cars at home and at night. This is precisely when the demand on the infrastructure is lowest and correspondingly why the rates are often cheaper during those times. A high power level 2 charger draws only 32-40A. This is typically easily offset by the dormancy of a household at night.

Many folks couldn't stream video off the internet until their service provider switched from dial-up to cable. EV use may not work for everyone right now, but it can work for VERY MANY. As more folks adopt the technology, then apartments and other detached domiciles will ultimately find a way to make charging practical. For some people, they might also be able to charge at work. Near term, with the current range of EV's, charging once a day while at work might very well substitute for charging once a night at home for many people.

If your infrastructure can't handle night time EV charging (when the actual industrial power demands are significantly diminished), then you have bigger issues...

...and what gives you the impulse to also condemn autonomous vehicles? That's not even the subject. You just sorta threw that one in. It sure looks like you feel threatened by any/all technological advancements. Good luck with the future!
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      12-14-2018, 03:35 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Most actual EV owners charge their cars at home and at night. This is precisely when the demand on the infrastructure is lowest and correspondingly why the rates are often cheaper during those times. A high power level 2 charger draws only 32-40A. This is typically easily offset by the dormancy of a household at night.
Most owners can charge their EV at home because most of them have their own garage.
It works that way now.

If more than 50% of the cars are replaced with EV, then situation will be totally different.
Not all of them have their own garage.

Also, 40A all night is actually quite a bit.
Most of the older cities will need new power grid.

If EV work for you that well, why aren't all of your vehicle EV?
It works because you have other cars.
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      12-14-2018, 09:01 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
This is not really relevant for both parties - not the commuters and especially not the "road-trip" guys.

Commuter: has an average of, lets say 40 miles per day. Can charge his car every night at home or at the office, so it does not make sense for him that he can charge in 3 minutes

Road-Trip or Business trip: has an average of 300 miles and has to stop to "fill up". You need one minute at a gas station and still a lot of time even with this new "method". 3 minutes for 100km is nothing. It still needs around 15 minutes to charge it for like 300 miles.

Where is the benefit? If you are traveling for 100 miles with an electric vehicle, I am pretty sure it's already fully loaded. And for a longer road-trip you have to charge up for 20 minutes during the stop anyway.
While I see your point, its still not always true. Its like if your iphone can charge in only 15 minutes, why have a version that can charge in 3 minutes because it takes 15 minutes to cook an omelette. The cars charged here are not charged to full in 3 minutes they are just getting 100 km. To get the full capacity of say 400 km, it will take maybe 10 minutes, sure you may often only need 100 miles to get to your destination. But that destination may not have a charger, you may take another route when returning home, so if it can charge faster (and it doesnt hurt battery longevity) then it is worth exploring.

I hate all the snobs (not referring to the post i am replying to) who act like people concerned with charging are wimps that need to suck it up. Spare us your stories of how brave you are. EVs arent for everyone, and the versions available right now definitely arent for everyone.
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      12-14-2018, 10:18 PM   #49
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That's simply a story. We'll have to wait and see what really happens.
Yet the Porsche claim is not "just a story"? LOL
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      12-14-2018, 10:21 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mo...ng-gas-engines


How expensive? As I mentioned, you’ll need about 60 50kW rechargers to replace one fuel pump; about eight of the 350kW variety for every pump. That, as I mentioned, would mean 960 of the low-powered 50kW units at each rest stop and 128 of the high-tech 350kW versions. Have I mentioned that even those low-powered 50kW fast chargers cost about $40,000 apiece? One of those faster-charging 350kW items? About two hundred large. Faster-charging automated versions would cost upward of a half-million each.
Hence my question... How much per kilowatt will the price be? On the order of gasoline?

And you didn't even delve into the maintenance of such heavy equipment.
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      12-14-2018, 10:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
That's simply a story. We'll have to wait and see what really happens.
Yet the Porsche claim...
Dude wtf does Porsche have to do with the GM crap you posted lol

Porsche is not stupid. GM however is more than half asleep.

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      12-15-2018, 07:42 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Dude wtf does Porsche have to do with the GM crap you posted lol

Porsche is not stupid. GM however is more than half asleep.

Dude, Porsche doesn't yet even have an EV out in the market. And it's Parent company just got butt fucked over its diesel-gate fiasco.

GM produced a modern EV 22 effing years ago to meet Cali CARB mandates, yet the rest of the US market had no interest in it. GM's first extended-range EV was released for sale in December 2010 (quick math for you, that was 8 years ago). Porsche was still making an egg-shaped car that it first introduced in 1965 to the US. Porsche had to introduce a shared-platform SUV in 2003 to survive as a car company. GM created the first "modern" SUV arguably in 1967 with the 6th generation Suburban (the '66 Ford Bronco might qualify too).

WTF are you talking about " a story"? LOL
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-15-2018 at 10:59 AM.
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      12-15-2018, 09:56 AM   #53
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In the USA the average price of electricity is 10.5 cents per kWh. At an average price of $2.40 for regular gasoline, the kWh price of gasoline is 7.1 cents per kWh. Gasoline is a far better fuel format for on-board energy storage.

Anyone with a brain (vs. some stupid emotional tie to trying to save the planet) would conclude the solution to the problem is to increase the efficiency of burning gasoline for motive power.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-15-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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      12-15-2018, 10:56 AM   #54
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Always amazed how many people predicting that EVs will take over the market neglect the millions and millions of people that use on-street parking and have zero ability to charge at home. Not everyone can charge at home people!
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      12-15-2018, 11:26 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Dude wtf does Porsche have to do with the GM crap you posted lol

Porsche is not stupid. GM however is more than half asleep.

Dude, Porsche doesn't yet even have an EV out in the market. And it's Parent company just got butt fucked over its diesel-gate fiasco.

GM produced a modern EV 22 effing years ago to meet Cali CARB mandates, yet the rest of the US market had no interest in it. GM's first extended-range EV was released for sale in December 2010 (quick math for you, that was 8 years ago). Porsche was still making an egg-shaped car that it first introduced in 1965 to the US. Porsche had to introduce a shared-platform SUV in 2003 to survive as a car company. GM created the first "modern" SUV arguably in 1967 with the 6th generation Suburban (the '66 Ford Bronco might qualify too).

WTF are you talking about " a story"? LOL
I guess reading > you.

Maybe go back and read what you posted before you act like a little b.
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      12-15-2018, 11:39 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
I guess reading > you.

Maybe go back and read what you posted before you act like a little b.
Uh huh; killer comeback.
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      12-15-2018, 03:36 PM   #57
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Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
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      12-15-2018, 04:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
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      12-15-2018, 05:11 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
My two cents, EV's have no soul......ICE, that's got some soul my friend, old school. The smell of gas and oil, rowing the gears the sound, that's where it's at. But I'm a Grumpy old man.
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      12-15-2018, 07:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
My two cents, EV's have no soul......ICE, that's got some soul my friend, old school. The smell of gas and oil, rowing the gears the sound, that's where it's at. But I'm a Grumpy old man.
You know what, that's fine, enjoy that without regrets. I often attend oldtimer race events and love the raw, loud and highly emissive action there.

But wheel of the future is E-driven, nobody can hold back that revolution. Everyone having a wire to the industry knows that.
And the signs are clear: SMART will terminate all ICE variants by 2020, VW sets up a whole new entry level E-class, Porsche and Mercedes have made clear announcements regarding their coming EV lineup.
It will go faster and faster now. ICE will soon be very uncool. And that's good news for the kids of tomorrow.
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      12-15-2018, 10:07 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
You know what, that's fine, enjoy that without regrets. I often attend oldtimer race events and love the raw, loud and highly emissive action there.

But wheel of the future is E-driven, nobody can hold back that revolution. Everyone having a wire to the industry knows that.
And the signs are clear: SMART will terminate all ICE variants by 2020, VW sets up a whole new entry level E-class, Porsche and Mercedes have made clear announcements regarding their coming EV lineup.
It will go faster and faster now. ICE will soon be very uncool. And that's good news for the kids of tomorrow.
I'll be long dead before my 993 isn't cool.
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      12-15-2018, 10:15 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

30 minutes is not ridiculous but 10 minutes is.

The Tesla Model 3 has a 310 mile range.
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      12-15-2018, 11:40 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

30 minutes is not ridiculous but 10 minutes is.

The Tesla Model 3 has a 310 mile range.
I think you're the one that has no idea...

Perhaps research battery overheating, and come back.
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      12-16-2018, 12:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

30 minutes is not ridiculous but 10 minutes is.

The Tesla Model 3 has a 310 mile range.
I think you're the one that has no idea...

Perhaps research battery overheating, and come back.
Why don't you... Search away.

The car's battery will not be depleted by 30 minutes of track time.

Tesla's battery chemistry is very well thought out and the Model 3 packs are the most advanced of all.
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      12-16-2018, 12:43 AM   #65
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Also the battery packs tend to be liquid cooled. The tesla actually runs a cooling program during charging especially fast charging as the batteries tend to get a little toasty. I think the car can also use its AC system to further cool the loop if needed.
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      12-16-2018, 07:38 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Wouldn't it be cool to have these fast chargers at various tracks?
I'd love an electric Porsche that can be charged adequately between outings....

That is the problem that needs to be solved for Tesla when they claim their model 3 performance is faster than an M3 around a track. M3 owners reply: maybe for 1 30 min outing, and you're done for the day....
Good point but I don't even think it would be quicker for 30 minutes. Probably more like 10 minutes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

30 minutes is not ridiculous but 10 minutes is.

The Tesla Model 3 has a 310 mile range.
I think you're the one that has no idea...

Perhaps research battery overheating, and come back.
Why don't you... Search away.

The car's battery will not be depleted by 30 minutes of track time.

Tesla's battery chemistry is very well thought out and the Model 3 packs are the most advanced of all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
Also the battery packs tend to be liquid cooled. The tesla actually runs a cooling program during charging especially fast charging as the batteries tend to get a little toasty. I think the car can also use its AC system to further cool the loop if needed.
https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-hap...-th-1827321127

Now go troll somewhere else kids.
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