F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos > Stages of Naturally Aspirated Engine Phase-Out Grief
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2019, 07:29 AM   #1
baege
Captain
208
Rep
854
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M240i Xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Stages of Naturally Aspirated Engine Phase-Out Grief

So we all know about the trend towards turbos and away from normal aspiration.

I tried to resist but in the end could not simply find a normally aspirated car that otherwise met my parameters...and so I ended up in a 2018 m240i with the b58, which is one of the least laggy motors out there...but alas there is still lag.

I have come to recognize the stages of the loss of normal aspiration grief as follows:

1. shock...my test drives of the b58 didn't unmask the extent to which turbo lag still presented itself in everyday driving...in my first couple days of everyday driving, I was shocked at how present lag still was

2. Anger...I felt cheated, I thought the b58 was the unicorn, the one turbo motor that didn't feel like a turbo motor, but alas it wasn/t

3. Denial...for a while I told myself it didn't matter, turbo lag so what, no big deal, I am getting used to it, car is still blindingly fast so what if there is lag and less connection

4. Acceptance...I finally moved to a place where I realized turbo lag was real and it did matter in my driving experience. I didn't feel as connected to the drive as I did with my normally aspirated cars. But I moved on to accept that this just a reality of our modern driving experience, and to live with it

5. Hope...the final stage I've arrived at is to recognize that one day I will be back with normal aspiration and I when I am in a place again in life where I can have a wonderful torquey normally aspirated car with a manual transmission I will hold on to it, until and unless they start making them again.

Hope this post helps other NA mourners out there

You are not alone
Appreciate 6
      01-08-2019, 07:51 AM   #2
MGM135is
Primo Generalissimo
United_States
1180
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 135is #399
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
So we all know about the trend towards turbos and away from normal aspiration.

I tried to resist but in the end could not simply find a normally aspirated car that otherwise met my parameters...and so I ended up in a 2018 m240i with the b58, which is one of the least laggy motors out there...but alas there is still lag.

I have come to recognize the stages of the loss of normal aspiration grief as follows:

1. shock...my test drives of the b58 didn't unmask the extent to which turbo lag still presented itself in everyday driving...in my first couple days of everyday driving, I was shocked at how present lag still was

2. Anger...I felt cheated, I thought the b58 was the unicorn, the one turbo motor that didn't feel like a turbo motor, but alas it wasn/t

3. Denial...for a while I told myself it didn't matter, turbo lag so what, no big deal, I am getting used to it, car is still blindingly fast so what if there is lag and less connection

4. Acceptance...I finally moved to a place where I realized turbo lag was real and it did matter in my driving experience. I didn't feel as connected to the drive as I did with my normally aspirated cars. But I moved on to accept that this just a reality of our modern driving experience, and to live with it

5. Hope...the final stage I've arrived at is to recognize that one day I will be back with normal aspiration and I when I am in a place again in life where I can have a wonderful torquey normally aspirated car with a manual transmission I will hold on to it, until and unless they start making them again.

Hope this post helps other NA mourners out there

You are not alone
There is some lag in my 718, or at least a place where power suddenly surges. I do not really have that with the 135is. Itís too bad you couldnít get straight with the Vette. I really enjoy driving that beast. What about an F Type R?
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 07:56 AM   #3
baege
Captain
208
Rep
854
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M240i Xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGM135is View Post
There is some lag in my 718, or at least a place where power suddenly surges. I do not really have that with the 135is. Itís too bad you couldnít get straight with the Vette. I really enjoy driving that beast. What about an F Type R?
I love the f type R and that would have been what I would have gotten over the m240i if not for the compromise of domestic life (my partner felt she couldn't handle such a beast and said we needed at least a 4 seater)

the f type R is an absolute riot and has so much immediate low end torque...I do wish it came in a manual, but it's still a contender for the car I hold onto
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 07:56 AM   #4
3GFX
Captain
3GFX's Avatar
Canada
536
Rep
714
Posts

Drives: 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

You just need a bigger turbo so that when the lag is finally over your seat is happy
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 07:57 AM   #5
MGM135is
Primo Generalissimo
United_States
1180
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 135is #399
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
I love the f type R and that would have been what I would have gotten over the m240i if not for the compromise of domestic life (my partner felt she couldn't handle such a beast and said we needed at least a 4 seater)
911 Turbo has a back seat.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 07:59 AM   #6
baege
Captain
208
Rep
854
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M240i Xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGM135is View Post
911 Turbo has a back seat.
ha ha, still a turbo and outside the budget
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 09:38 AM   #7
Alfisti
Captain
728
Rep
961
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I know you say you know the difference but are you SURE it's not throttle lag? It staggers me how much throttle lag there is programmed into BMWs.

On a related note, I am beginning to shop for a toy car or angry DD and I have it down to three cars, 911 S, Mustang V8 or rod bearing M3.

Notice a trend?
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2019, 09:42 AM   #8
IanMan
Second Lieutenant
IanMan's Avatar
284
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: Alpine White M3 Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (0)

Just purchase a Lamborghini and call it a day.
__________________
Current: 2008 E90 M3 V8 | 2008 E83 X3 3.0 si
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gone: 2008 E60 M5 V10 | 2006 E90 325i | 2001 E46 M3 | 1984 E28 533i
Appreciate 1
ItsGary765.50

      01-08-2019, 10:55 AM   #9
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
1686
Rep
2,131
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I’m curious, what were your “NA parameters”?

My powertrain parameters for a fun car have usually been NA, MT, RWD, sounds great, and high revving if possible. There are still a precious few of those cars out there, but (a) not for long and (b) not for cheap.

Your “hope” stage is probably never going to pan out so my plan is to hoard these cars till i die.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 11:38 AM   #10
saeyedoc
Captain
132
Rep
761
Posts

Drives: 2013 Carrera S, 2013 Panny GTS
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, I'm holding onto my '13C2S for a while, just bought a 3 year warranty.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 11:56 AM   #11
SFCM3
Major
United_States
689
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

BMW died in my eyes after the s65 stopped production.
__________________
I am never able to post pictures on forums, all my pics are on IG @baye30 https://www.instagram.com/baye30/
Current Garage - [2011 E90 M3 ZCP] [2005 E53 X5 3.0 Sport] [1988 E30 325IS 24V]
Appreciate 1
inTgr8r1350.50

      01-08-2019, 12:07 PM   #12
BMWILUVU
Second Lieutenant
91
Rep
275
Posts

Drives: 340ix
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The BoiG

iTrader: (0)

I drive in Sport+ and the turbo lag is nowhere. Other makes have a real turbo lag problem.
Appreciate 2
      01-08-2019, 09:06 PM   #13
irishbimmer
Major
714
Rep
1,074
Posts

Drives: Silverstone M6 CP, Bulldozer,
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Gotta say in sport plus there is no turbo lag-and when moving into higher rpms the performance is sensational.
__________________
"People are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts"
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2019, 09:39 PM   #14
Soterios
BXR
133
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2012 135i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

I mean....I get that lag is a bummer, but I'd rather have a little bit of lag and 300hp than no lag and 200hp.
__________________
2012 135i M Sport Alpine White
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2019, 10:05 PM   #15
Biginboca
Major
Biginboca's Avatar
871
Rep
1,064
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
I mean....I get that lag is a bummer, but I'd rather have a little bit of lag and 300hp than no lag and 200hp.
But it’s not an either/or... you can get 300hp, 400hp, or even 500hp with no lag in a N/A motor too

OP I feel you. I’m also committed to N/A (and 6MT lol)

Last edited by Biginboca; 01-08-2019 at 10:16 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 10:18 PM   #16
irishbimmer
Major
714
Rep
1,074
Posts

Drives: Silverstone M6 CP, Bulldozer,
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

I've had a tuned 2010 V10 which was sweet-about 530hp and my newer M6 has about 575(twin turbo) and it is demonstrably faster.
__________________
"People are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts"
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 10:21 PM   #17
Soterios
BXR
133
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2012 135i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
But itís not an either/or... you can get 300hp, 400hp, or even 500hp with no lag in a N/A motor too

OP I feel you. Iím also committed to N/A (and 6MT lol)
You can make anything with anything with enough time and money.

Generally I was comparing the 128 and the 135. And BMW does a lot of trims that way.

The kind of money you have to put into an NA car to get similar power gains (at least for the little inline six's that BMW uses) is pretty outrageous.
__________________
2012 135i M Sport Alpine White
Appreciate 2
Biginboca870.50
N54Yankee286.00

      01-08-2019, 10:31 PM   #18
Biginboca
Major
Biginboca's Avatar
871
Rep
1,064
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
The kind of money you have to put into an NA car to get similar power gains (at least for the little inline six's that BMW uses) is pretty outrageous.
That is right on point, and sadly Iím very familiar with this topic lol. The only thing Iíll add is that alot of the money for the n/a mods is recovered in the lower purchase price of the N/A car. So if it cost $2500 to add 70hp to the n/a car usually the n/a car is priced around $2k less also.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 10:44 PM   #19
Soterios
BXR
133
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2012 135i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
That is right on point, and sadly I’m very familiar with this topic lol. The only thing I’ll add is that alot of the money for the n/a mods is recovered in the lower purchase price of the N/A car. So if it cost $2500 to add 70hp to the n/a car usually the n/a car is priced around $2k less also.
Perhaps, but there's still a limit to those returns. I probably could have spend $6,000 less on a comparable 128i, but I really doubt I would have a 375hp car with the difference and a 128i. There's only so much you can do to a motor before it gets silly.
__________________
2012 135i M Sport Alpine White
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2019, 11:44 PM   #20
JamesNoBrakes
Lieutenant Colonel
723
Rep
1,622
Posts

Drives: 428i xdrive GC
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Given the difference between my bmw driving modes and driving old school turbo cars, itís not turbo lag when you are driving modern turbo cars (hot-v, short headers, twin scrolls, etc.) that produce full torque at 1500-1700, its throttle response and the automatic transmission. If you are feeling significant turbo lag, IMO you donít know what itís like to drive a car that needs 2800-3000 rpm before it wakes up and one that WILL NOT climb to that rpm under load in too high of a gear.
Appreciate 2
3798j273.00
Viffermike1616.50

      01-09-2019, 06:37 AM   #21
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
4313
Rep
11,884
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Sorry for the edit... but there is a 6th stage :

5. Hope...the final stage I've arrived at is to recognize that one day I will be back with normal aspiration and I when I am in a place again in life where I can have a wonderful torquey normally aspirated car with a manual transmission I will hold on to it,

6. Pipe Dream...until and unless they start making them again.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 1
baege208.00

      01-09-2019, 07:06 AM   #22
TheMidnightNarwhal
Colonel
TheMidnightNarwhal's Avatar
Canada
545
Rep
2,494
Posts

Drives: 2011 335is 6 speed
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Gatineau, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
But itís not an either/or... you can get 300hp, 400hp, or even 500hp with no lag in a N/A motor too

OP I feel you. Iím also committed to N/A (and 6MT lol)
Yeah but can you plug a tune and get lots of HP on N/A? No.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST