[MacklinUSOB]

Hey All,

With all the talk about the TC failures on our car I wanted to get a thread out to have people report what they were quoted to preemtively replace the chaindrive components. I am just getting over 75k at the moment and plan on replacing the chain within the next year. I assume I am not the only one on here who at least contemplated getting this done, it would be super useful for us all to have an average cost so we have a good idea of what to budget. From my recollection people have been paying between 2 and 3 grand for the job, wondering if that is accurate. Appreciate the input.

[rjd_F30]

I'm at the same exact mileage, interested to hear people's responses.

[sspade]

Almost 72k. Sub'd.

[ejsanto]

I'm currently at 79k, stage 2 FBO for the past year, no issues. I do my oil changes every 3000-3500 miles, since I hear some talk that changing your oil often helps the problem. No leaks either, I feel like I'm at risk, I check the tension of the chain every month to feel if there's any slack too. Sub'd.

[kobluna]

Interesting thread. Sub'd.

ejsanto Don't you ever feel a slack on your TC? I do on mine and I thought it's normal due to how tensioner is designed. There have been also some talk that depending which position crank shaft (or camshaft) stops when engine is shut off it's possible that TC gets some slack. It was something like camshaft allows some negative rotation if stopped in the "right" spot which causes TC to loosen up. That will be taken care immediately when starting the engine.

FWIW, when I bought the car it was 1,5 year old and mileage was 48000. Oil were changed every 18000 miles. I have changed them every 9000 miles since then i.e. halved the interval. Now I have 91000 miles on clock and no problems yet *knocks on wood*. However, I do see some scoring marks (shiny patches on chain links) on my TC but I'm not sure if they means anything or not. At least my dealer was not worried about them

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Interesting thread. Sub'd.

ejsanto Don't you ever feel a slack on your TC? I do on mine and I thought it's normal due to how tensioner is designed. There have been also some talk that depending which position crank shaft (or camshaft) stops when engine is shut off it's possible that TC gets some slack. It was something like camshaft allows some negative rotation if stopped in the "right" spot which causes TC to loosen up. That will be taken care immediately when starting the engine.

FWIW, when I bought the car it was 1,5 year old and mileage was 48000. Oil were changed every 18000 miles. I have changed them every 9000 miles since then i.e. halved the interval. Now I have 91000 miles on clock and no problems yet *knocks on wood*. However, I do see some scoring marks (shiny patches on chain links) on my TC but I'm not sure if they means anything or not. At least my dealer was not worried about them

From what I understand, both those score marks and some slack are normal. As long as you can't lift the chain completely off the guide, or get a finger under it, it's ok. About the score marks, think about how the guides could guide the chain without making contact with it. They couldn't, they've got to make some contact, so it's expected that the chain will wear a little bit after a while.

[Axman85]

Great, another problem i have to worry about on my F30 335. Although this car may be fun to drive, quality wise its a piece of shit. Never heard of having to replace a timing chain; belt yes, chain no. Even the damn oil filter housing gasket leaks and needs a time consuming repair. What next, the sheetmetal going to fall off. I have 76k miles and this certainly my first and last BMW.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by Axman85

Great, another problem i have to worry about on my F30 335. Although this car may be fun to drive, quality wise its a piece of shit. Never heard of having to replace a timing chain; belt yes, chain no. Even the damn oil filter housing gasket leaks and needs a time consuming repair. What next, the sheetmetal going to fall off. I have 76k miles and this certainly my first and last BMW.

This problem is N20 based, hence the placement in the N20 board.

Also, the oil filter housing gasket is a 30 minute DIY...

Sorry to see you go!

[obert]

I will replace mine if I don’t get it replaced under the extended warranty.

[ejsanto]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Interesting thread. Sub'd.

ejsanto Don't you ever feel a slack on your TC? I do on mine and I thought it's normal due to how tensioner is designed. There have been also some talk that depending which position crank shaft (or camshaft) stops when engine is shut off it's possible that TC gets some slack. It was something like camshaft allows some negative rotation if stopped in the "right" spot which causes TC to loosen up. That will be taken care immediately when starting the engine.

FWIW, when I bought the car it was 1,5 year old and mileage was 48000. Oil were changed every 18000 miles. I have changed them every 9000 miles since then i.e. halved the interval. Now I have 91000 miles on clock and no problems yet *knocks on wood*. However, I do see some scoring marks (shiny patches on chain links) on my TC but I'm not sure if they means anything or not. At least my dealer was not worried about them

kobluna I have the slightest of slack, almost non existent. You should probably lower your interval on oil changes, 9k is a little high in my opinion. I'm personally going to have the job done at a trustworthy indie shop (I'll be providing all the parts myself) he said the job will take about 1000-1500 to do. I'm also going to replace valve cover+gasket while I'm at it. People love to crap on these motors/f30's in general, but I'm actually having a lovely time with it.

[Axman85]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

This problem is N20 based, hence the placement in the N20 board.

Also, the oil filter housing gasket is a 30 minute DIY...

Sorry to see you go!

On the 335 there is a bolt under the intake valve so you have to take that out. Based on posts is can take 4-8 hours depending on that bolt and how much you have to pull out. Going to DIY as dealer wanted $1300 for that.

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by ejsanto

kobluna I have the slightest of slack, almost non existent. You should probably lower your interval on oil changes, 9k is a little high in my opinion. I'm personally going to have the job done at a trustworthy indie shop (I'll be providing all the parts myself) he said the job will take about 1000-1500 to do. I'm also going to replace valve cover+gasket while I'm at it. People love to crap on these motors/f30's in general, but I'm actually having a lovely time with it.

Yep, I get an impression that 9k is maybe still too high even though it's only half of the recommended OCI. On the other hand, I usually drive quite long distances so engine oil is not collecting water in it. Anyway, I'm planning to go to BM3 this summer so after that it would be even more important to shorten OCI. I'm currently debating if I go to stage1 or stage2 as I cannot find ECE approved sport cat for N20. For some reason those are only available for N55. Some have reported that 200 cell sport cat would not light CEL either and would pass emissions.

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

From what I understand, both those score marks and some slack are normal. As long as you can't lift the chain completely off the guide, or get a finger under it, it's ok. About the score marks, think about how the guides could guide the chain without making contact with it. They couldn't, they've got to make some contact, so it's expected that the chain will wear a little bit after a while.

Yep, I guess some scoring marks and slack is normal. On the other hand, guides are plastic so they are supposed to be softer than metal and therefore would be impossible to cause marks on chain. Of course it's possible that chain is actually just polished and not actually weared out which would explain the marks. Anyway it's odd that we still don't have definitive answer on why timing and oil pump chains are failing on relatively low mileage on someones vehicles but not for others.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Yep, I guess some scoring marks and slack is normal. On the other hand, guides are plastic so they are supposed to be softer than metal and therefore would be impossible to cause marks on chain. Of course it's possible that chain is actually just polished and not actually weared out which would explain the marks. Anyway it's odd that we still don't have definitive answer on why timing and oil pump chains are failing on relatively low mileage on someones vehicles but not for others.

Indeed. I wish there was more info too, but I guess we have to work on the limited amount that we have.

[GreenF30N26]

Is this concern only related to N20/N26s built before 2016? I read BMW “fixed” the timing chain flaw starting 2016 but I’m wondering how to tell if my 2016 N26 has the redesigned chain or not? Is there a way to tell?

[RMachuca3d]

Originally Posted by Green33

Is this concern only related to N20/N26s built before 2016? I read BMW “fixed” the timing chain flaw starting 2016 but I’m wondering how to tell if my 2016 N26 has the redesigned chain or not? Is there a way to tell?

Any n20/26 built after March 2015 (give or take a month or two) has the new TC guides.

[cchriss]

I just hit 60k on my F30 328i, going to run BM3 Stage 2 in a few weeks. Interested in this as well. I might change mine out at 70k.

[wvadam]

Originally Posted by Green33

Is this concern only related to N20/N26s built before 2016? I read BMW “fixed” the timing chain flaw starting 2016 but I’m wondering how to tell if my 2016 N26 has the redesigned chain or not? Is there a way to tell?

My concern is how do we know they 'fixed' anything? redesigning a part and obsoleting the old one is a great way to calm down the rumour mill. It is still an extremely rare failure but gets a lot of attention. The tensioner is stronger revised part and in other cars it has been a known point of failure. It is probably a good idea to replace it especially if you hear the slop noise in the engine.

[Pauloxxi]

Originally Posted by Green33

Is this concern only related to N20/N26s built before 2016? I read BMW “fixed” the timing chain flaw starting 2016 but I’m wondering how to tell if my 2016 N26 has the redesigned chain or not? Is there a way to tell?

As far as I know, the problem chain guides are orange, while the better ones are white plastic. You can see a corner of your time chain guides by opening the oil cover and looking the gap with a flashlight.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by pauloxxi

As far as I know, the problem chain guides are orange, while the better ones are white plastic. You can see a corner of your time chain guides by opening the oil cover and looking the gap with a flashlight.

This theory was disproven when someone dug up a video of an N20 being assembled in 2012 with white chain guides. They all turn orange/brown from oil saturation over time. It's my understanding that you can't tell anything by color.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

This theory was disproven when someone dug up a video of an N20 being assembled in 2012 with white chain guides. They all turn orange/brown from oil saturation over time. It's my understanding that you can't tell anything by color.

This is true. Color does not appear to be a determining factor.

[sspade]

Also-

Are we sure the guides were revised?

I just checked and only the chain is showing as revised... the guides PN did not change...

[madmortar]

SUB

Was at the dealer for an oil change and asked them to check my timing chain. They reported back no issues or slack to be concerned with. I have 1.5 years left on my warranty.

I was trying to get out of it and jump into a 2018 m240i in a stick that a sales rep was getting out of.... You would not BELIEVE what they wanted to offer for my car. Its crazy. Dont know if these timing chain concerns have killed the value of these cars but no way am I getting rid of this car for such a low quote.

I mean, I LOVE my car. Exterior and interior are perfect, exactly what i want (m-sport black with red interior). I just would rather have a) a motor that doesnt sound like a TDI and b) a stick.

But looks like if i dont want to burn a pile of money, i need to hold on to this car long term. Modding more when warranty is up. But yes, I do want to get the updated timing chain installed to avoid that headache down the line.