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      01-31-2020, 06:12 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
All the aftermarket companies post numbers like that, but I'm calling 100% BS to it. Just isn't possible on our torque target based turbo cars.

Only benefit the aftermarket "CAI" has is intake noise. It gives the acceleration more "drama", but don't expect noticable power gains.
With all due respect I don't think it's fair to call bullshit when you have no data proving otherwise.

VM posted dyno using BMS Intake. VM don't make intakes so they have no reason to lie about it. They took the time to dyno their car and post results
I agree with Mike. Every single thread Ive seen on any intake done with dynos (including drop ins) shows at least 5HP and TQ gains. You really can't dispute data without any data
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      01-31-2020, 07:00 AM   #24
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It wouldn't be good marketing to show dyno charts with no improvement for a product you are trying to sell.

Although, Imran at Evolve posted a video of testing the A90 Supra at Santa Pod drag strip:

Stock car with GPF and downpipe ran 12.7@109mph
Same day, same car with stage 1 flash tune ran 12.1@116mph and with a 3D printed prototype of an Eventuri intake went 12.1@115.6mph

Intake sounds can be nice with an open intake.
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      01-31-2020, 07:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
All the aftermarket companies post numbers like that, but I'm calling 100% BS to it. Just isn't possible on our torque target based turbo cars.

Only benefit the aftermarket "CAI" has is intake noise. It gives the acceleration more "drama", but don't expect noticable power gains.
What a lot of you don't grasp is

1. Most of the companies are marketing peak gains, not gains in peak power. If you decrease spool time, you get the same power earlier in the powerband.
2. You don't need gains in peak power to be faster
3. Our targets are shit, we constantly overshoot boost and a higher flowing intake will change the load profile anyway
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      01-31-2020, 08:32 PM   #26
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I hear what you are saying, and are calling complete BS to all of that. There is no way an aftermarket filter / intake is going to reduce your spool time to anything measurable. Like I've said in other threads, show me the dyno plots and I'll shut up. Otherwise it's 100% marketing BS. I don't buy it from the engineering side.
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      01-31-2020, 08:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
With all due respect I don’t think it’s fair to call bullshit when you have no data proving otherwise.

VM posted dyno using BMS Intake. VM don’t make intakes so they have no reason to lie about it. They took the time to dyno their car and post results
No I don't, nor does anyone else post REAL dyno's or trap times proving it's true.

So let me lay out a story of complete BS:
- My 340 puts out say 330HP.
- I put an intake on that CLAIMS 15HP
- I put an axle back on that CLAIMS 15HP

So you would stand behind my car will lay down 360HP? Doubtful with those mods. But if I tune the car, I gain only 60HP, with more boost and more fuel? Lets see some draggy results that show real numbers. If turbo spool is the deciding factor of gains, then it will show in the trap times.

Like come on, the M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output. So obviously this isn't a restriction point.

I bought an axle back purely for the sound. My butt dyno showed ZERO gains over the stock can. I know I sound like a d*ck here, but marketing snake oil is very frustrating.
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      01-31-2020, 09:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
It wouldn't be good marketing to show dyno charts with no improvement for a product you are trying to sell.
VM do not make intakes. They were not marketing anything. Just posting dyno of their build step by step

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
What a lot of you don't grasp is

1. Most of the companies are marketing peak gains, not gains in peak power. If you decrease spool time, you get the same power earlier in the powerband.
2. You don't need gains in peak power to be faster
3. Our targets are shit, we constantly overshoot boost and a higher flowing intake will change the load profile anyway
You are correct that there are ways to post BS dyno but VM have no reason to do so. They do not sell intakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
No I don't, nor does anyone else post REAL dyno's or trap times proving it's true.

So let me lay out a story of complete BS:
- My 340 puts out say 330HP.
- I put an intake on that CLAIMS 15HP
- I put an axle back on that CLAIMS 15HP

So you would stand behind my car will lay down 360HP? Doubtful with those mods. But if I tune the car, I gain only 60HP, with more boost and more fuel? Lets see some draggy results that show real numbers. If turbo spool is the deciding factor of gains, then it will show in the trap times.

Like come on, the M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output. So obviously this isn't a restriction point.

I bought an axle back purely for the sound. My butt dyno showed ZERO gains over the stock can. I know I sound like a d*ck here, but marketing snake oil is very frustrating.

Mods you mentioned add power on a very limited RPM range thats why its not as noticeable as lets say a tune which add power from 2500 RPM to redline. Also tune add a lot more power than an intake.

Im not saying you are wrong, maybe you are not. But you have no data and you are calling BS when someone else took the time and posted data thats all.

Last edited by mike@x-ph.com; 02-02-2020 at 07:03 PM..
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      02-01-2020, 12:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labitd View Post
Went with the CTS intake and couldn't be happier the sounds are amazing!
post some pics and maybe a video clip if you have a chance, thx.
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      02-11-2020, 11:45 AM   #30
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Anyone who is experienced in modding knows what these type of simple add on mods do, and don't do.

Any modifications that will add power need to be accounted for in the tune or they won't provide any change to the fullest potential. Increasing (less restrictive) airflow, or volume will certainly create an opportunity to produce more power, albeit even if minimal. The problem is usually people don't take it where it needs to go. More air IN = More air OUT, so unless you mod the exhaust too, you bottle neck it all. I simplify things of course, but only make note to provide an example. So yes, you'll get a few HP bump, untuned, but you can get the max. by tuning, changing the fueling or MAF tables to account for more air, etc.

It's not placebo... That result comes from the brain interpreting the sound change, lol.

^^^M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output^^^

Apples n Oranges as they don't have the same tunes! Or shall we compare cars with the same tires?
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      02-12-2020, 07:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFar View Post
I agree with Mike. Every single thread Ive seen on any intake done with dynos (including drop ins) shows at least 5HP and TQ gains. You really can't dispute data without any data
Yes, but 5HP is basically noise on the dyno. On the 335/340 thats basically a 1% gain.

All I'm saying is if you want an intake, make sure you are buying it for what it's guaranteed to give you:
1) Something sexy under the hood.
2) Intoxicating intake sound.

You could cut off the resonator wart on the intake tube if you wanted #2, and were sure enough that you sealed it so you didn't destroy the engine with dust. (Not an advisable route).

If you ever want an oil catch can, the BMS one would be the way to go since they have the port to hook it up to.
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      02-12-2020, 07:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Anyone who is experienced in modding knows what these type of simple add on mods do, and don't do.

Any modifications that will add power need to be accounted for in the tune or they won't provide any change to the fullest potential. Increasing (less restrictive) airflow, or volume will certainly create an opportunity to produce more power, albeit even if minimal. The problem is usually people don't take it where it needs to go. More air IN = More air OUT, so unless you mod the exhaust too, you bottle neck it all. I simplify things of course, but only make note to provide an example. So yes, you'll get a few HP bump, untuned, but you can get the max. by tuning, changing the fueling or MAF tables to account for more air, etc.

It's not placebo... That result comes from the brain interpreting the sound change, lol.

^^^M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output^^^

Apples n Oranges as they don't have the same tunes! Or shall we compare cars with the same tires?
You don't need to tune anything for an intake path change. It's governed with the MAF, hence the reason it became mandatory in production vehicles. The superior means was the OBDI MAP sensor (that required tuning), but the engine produced higher emissions as cam's wore and the compression dropped.

What we are talking about is a 2 variables:
1) Difference in CFM.
2) Difference in intake tract vacuum pre/post filter.

M cars to non-M cars, tunes mean nothing. The M car pulls 100HP+ over my stock 340 engine which is an apple to apple comparison since we are running virtually the same intake tract. Do you really think that the BMW M division would take a knee to MB AMG or Audi S if they could pick up an addition 15HP with nothing but a slight intake tract change?
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      02-12-2020, 10:30 PM   #33
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FWIW, IAT temps on my P3 gauge and JB4 logs with the stock intake and AP intake during repeated pulls were pretty much identical. Looking at the just numbers, you couldn't tell which was which. Maybe it would've been different in a track setting, idk. But on the street, was pretty much the same. Not scientific by any means, but yanno

Yes there can be gains with an intake, but unless you're looking to squeeze out every HP you can, I wouldn't look at intakes based on gains. I went with AP for the sound only. Don't regret it for a second.
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      02-17-2020, 01:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
...You could cut off the resonator wart on the intake tube if you wanted #2, and were sure enough that you sealed it so you didn't destroy the engine with dust. (Not an advisable route)...
I was thinking about doing this, because if I understand it correctly that's just a muffler. But, as you said, it needs to be done properly, so that the integrity of the tube is not compromised and it is completely sealed.
If you have any links to anyone that's done it, please share. Thanks.
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      02-18-2020, 07:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterWT View Post
I was thinking about doing this, because if I understand it correctly that's just a muffler. But, as you said, it needs to be done properly, so that the integrity of the tube is not compromised and it is completely sealed.
If you have any links to anyone that's done it, please share. Thanks.
buy the williams performance silicone pipe.
https://williamsperformance.co.uk/co...240i-340i-440i

if you're in the b58 enthusiasts group, you can probably message him directly and work out a deal on shipping.
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      02-18-2020, 06:51 PM   #36
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What kern417 said. There are other options that are aluminum, but I'd be concerned about heat transfer (perhaps it's not really relevant considering how fast the air moves through the tube, but silicone solves that).
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