[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I trust wikileaks.. theres no fascade being put up in those frank emails that show what they REALLY think

Pretty sure I could sift my emails to find some taken out of context that make me sound something I am not.... Sure they can do the same..... Unless you have read everything in full to get the context!

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Pretty sure I could sift my emails to find some taken out of context that make me sound something I am not.... Sure they can do the same..... Unless you have read everything in full to get the context!

These arent deep conversations my friend theres not much context to be taken out of in most cases lol thats giving them too much credit

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

These arent deep conversations my friend theres not much context to be taken out of in most cases lol thats giving them too much credit

everything has a context.

Except maybe Trump's hair. there is no context to that.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

.. few even know how to handle a firearm let alone a frank and honest conversation without caring what others think or say or if politically correct

For you to consider this as important is quite telling and possibly demonstrates that the gap between the founding fathers and present day USA isnt too far apart...

I trust wikileaks..

So information from anonymous sources is obviously a clear indication that whoever they are have absolutely no agenda whatsoever?

Give your head a wobble mate.


(PS How many guns do you own?)

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by HelmutVisor

For you to consider this as important is quite telling and possibly demonstrates that the gap between the founding fathers and present day USA isnt too far apart...




So information from anonymous sources is obviously a clear indication that whoever they are have absolutely no agenda whatsoever?

Give your head a wobble mate.


(PS How many guns do you own?)

You know what they are like, the majority put the D in to Darwin Awards.

Some places haven't actually changed since the Mayflower arrived.

[psuibmw]

It would have been the only time libertarian have a chance, but unfortunately this Johnson is an idiot too ... let me go pack now

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by HelmutVisor

For you to consider this as important is quite telling and possibly demonstrates that the gap between the founding fathers and present day USA isnt too far apart...




So information from anonymous sources is obviously a clear indication that whoever they are have absolutely no agenda whatsoever?

Give your head a wobble mate.


(PS How many guns do you own?)

I think wikileaks agenda is to reveal other peoples agendas..
Yer not at all curious I suppose.. just stick to the headlines then .. to each his own

[BrennanF30]

Originally Posted by HelmutVisor

For you to consider this as important is quite telling and possibly demonstrates that the gap between the founding fathers and present day USA isnt too far apart...

This is the problem with America, they are too used having guns over there that if you can't use one you're considered not worthy.

If firearms were banned over there, only the law allowed to bare them. Gun crime would be basically non existent instead of a daily occurrence.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

This is the problem with America, they are too used having guns over there that if you can't use one you're considered not worthy.

If firearms were banned over there, only the law allowed to bare them. Gun crime would be basically non existent instead of a daily occurrence.

The point I was making was that if you feel the need to have a gun culture for all the reasons that Americans will tell you then your whole philosophy and democracy is in question.

"I keep a firearm because its my right and because the second amendment says I have the right to bear arms for my own defence if the government fuck me over". Well, the UK had a similar Bill but when we became civilised, we decided that we didn't actually need it any more.

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I think wikileaks agenda is to reveal other peoples agendas.

Don't doubt that at all and on the whole, good on them. The point I was making was as an anonymous group of individuals, they are not accountable and there is no audit trail as to their motives. Do you know that they aren't biased? Do you know fully their agenda? Can you account or audit exactly where or why that information comes to the forefront?

Don't misunderstand my questioning or apparent point of view for not being curious. I most certainly do not just accept what has been shoved in front of me as gospel. And I'm guessing you dont either. I think we can agree that the pair of crayon-eating retards the US has fighting it out for the White House aint exactly the 'top shelf' of democratic or moral leadership.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

This is the problem with America, they are too used having guns over there that if you can't use one you're considered not worthy.

If firearms were banned over there, only the law allowed to bare them. Gun crime would be basically non existent instead of a daily occurrence.

In this supposed law-abiding world with "international laws" and "rule of law".. for the ones with any real insight one can see it is still might makes right. US/UK/Nato governments butt into whereever they want and with whomevers business they want..
Well if someone else has a gun and you dont.. then who has the real say?
How do you defend your loved ones when you've no say?
Yea our founding fathers taught us well.

You chaps favor Queen Hillary then you wouldn't mind her butting into British politics after she's elected.. dont complain to us then.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

In this supposed law-abiding world with "international laws" and "rule of law".. for the ones with any real insight one can see it is still might makes right. US/UK/Nato governments butt into whereever they want and with whomevers business they want..
Well if someone else has a gun and you dont.. then who has the real say?
How do you defend your loved ones when you've no say?
Yea our founding fathers taught us well.

Funnily enough, we rely on our Armed Forces to protect our people from outside influences. On an internal level, the lack of available firearms (due to culture) means that I can get away with using harsh language or a piece of 4x2 to protect my loved ones as the odds that the perpetrator not having a firearm is very high. Also, we view the Police Force as protectors and not some heavy handed arm of the government.

Originally Posted by insanecoder

You chaps favor Queen Hillary then you wouldn't mind her butting into British politics after she's elected.. dont complain to us then.

Trust me, I'd rather favour anal warts. I think she'll have her work cut out sorting her own shit out before she tries to poke her nose in over here. We are about to leave the EU and seem to have quite a few other friends so the influence of the US may be on the decline

[insanecoder]

Look I see your point why a barbaric tool in a "civilized world". Well when everyone throws away their barbaric tools then so shall we.. else whos the fool? Our founding fathers gave us this right DIRECTLY after freedom of speech.. because of its importance.. not because its a piece of wood or metal which is able to eject shrapnel.. a peoples must be given a right to defend themselves against others and yes even against its own government. Look throughout history and see for yourselves. First thing tyrants do is disarm the people. Governemnt is for the people NOT the otehrway around.

Regarding wikileaks, theres no blind faith on them. However do you see any denials at all from those accused? DNC Wasserman Shultz stepped down.. etc etc on and on..these people know the emails are theirs. Sure wikileaks could theortically doctor these but their reputation is on the line every release. If their reputation is at all tarnished their whole business is moot. Reputation is all they got.. they check their sources and protect that.
Without the reputation noone would bother paying any attention..

Regarding Hillary, she'll have no qualms about inserting her ramrod up yer arses in the British isles. The neocons regard yer little group of islands as vassals of DC anyway lol. I do congrats you on ejection from the EU tho as you can check I posted vigorously in support of that leaving. However lots of you gents didnt really want to leave either. Much easier for Queen Hillary to control europe as a while (EU) .. but oh well.. just another few "dilplomatic" trips to the isles to sort things out get yall in line.. you want her.. careful what you wish for.

Originally Posted by HelmutVisor

The point I was making was that if you feel the need to have a gun culture for all the reasons that Americans will tell you then your whole philosophy and democracy is in question.

"I keep a firearm because its my right and because the second amendment says I have the right to bear arms for my own defence if the government fuck me over". Well, the UK had a similar Bill but when we became civilised, we decided that we didn't actually need it any more.

Don't doubt that at all and on the whole, good on them. The point I was making was as an anonymous group of individuals, they are not accountable and there is no audit trail as to their motives. Do you know that they aren't biased? Do you know fully their agenda? Can you account or audit exactly where or why that information comes to the forefront?

Don't misunderstand my questioning or apparent point of view for not being curious. I most certainly do not just accept what has been shoved in front of me as gospel. And I'm guessing you dont either. I think we can agree that the pair of crayon-eating retards the US has fighting it out for the White House aint exactly the 'top shelf' of democratic or moral leadership.

[HelmutVisor]

Government is for the people NOT the otherway around.

Which is why it is really really important that the people ensure the correct people are in government? If you get that right and hold them to account, you reduce the need to be paranoid that they are going to fuck you over.

Dont disagree with you regarding wikileaks. Was merely pointing out that wikileaks is a bit like wikipedia. Sure, its a great open source of info but it can be a little dangerous to use that info as gospel without other corroborating sources.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Look I see your point why a barbaric tool in a "civilized world". Well when everyone throws away their barbaric tools then so shall we.. else whos the fool? Our founding fathers gave us this right DIRECTLY after freedom of speech.. because of its importance.. not because its a piece of wood or metal which is able to eject shrapnel.. a peoples must be given a right to defend themselves against others and yes even against its own government. Look throughout history and see for yourselves. First thing tyrants do is disarm the people. Governemnt is for the people NOT the otehrway around.

Regarding wikileaks, theres no blind faith on them. However do you see any denials at all from those accused? DNC Wasserman Shultz stepped down.. etc etc on and on..these people know the emails are theirs. Sure wikileaks could theortically doctor these but their reputation is on the line every release. If their reputation is at all tarnished their whole business is moot. Reputation is all they got.. they check their sources and protect that.
Without the reputation noone would bother paying any attention..

Regarding Hillary, she'll have no qualms about inserting her ramrod up yer arses in the British isles. The neocons regard yer little group of islands as vassals of DC anyway lol. I do congrats you on ejection from the EU tho as you can check I posted vigorously in support of that leaving. However lots of you gents didnt really want to leave either. Much easier for Queen Hillary to control europe as a while (EU) .. but oh well.. just another few "dilplomatic" trips to the isles to sort things out get yall in line.. you want her.. careful what you wish for.

So with this thing about being able to protect yourself against the governements and against others.

Then I assume you have no problem with say all Black lives matter type communities all arming themselves and protecting their communities?

Then what about the Muslim Brotherhood of America deciding to set up a large community and arming themselves?

What would have been the effect of those Japanese citizens living in America during WW2 defending themselves with guns from the governement?

I just cannot see any time since 1865 that this amazing and glorified amendment has actually been used in practice.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Brigand

So with this thing about being able to protect yourself against the governements and against others.

Then I assume you have no problem with say all Black lives matter type communities all arming themselves and protecting their communities?

Then what about the Muslim Brotherhood of America deciding to set up a large community and arming themselves?

What would have been the effect of those Japanese citizens living in America during WW2 defending themselves with guns from the governement?

I just cannot see any time since 1865 that this amazing and glorified amendment has actually been used in practice.

Ok Ill leave this be.. founding fathers were intelligent wise gentlemen and they put this as #2 amendment.. must be important.. maybe not all can see that but I'm glad its the law of this land.

[BrennanF30]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Look I see your point why a barbaric tool in a "civilized world". Well when everyone throws away their barbaric tools then so shall we.. else whos the fool? Our founding fathers gave us this right DIRECTLY after freedom of speech.. because of its importance.. not because its a piece of wood or metal which is able to eject shrapnel.. a peoples must be given a right to defend themselves against others and yes even against its own government. Look throughout history and see for yourselves. First thing tyrants do is disarm the people. Governemnt is for the people NOT the otehrway around.

Regarding wikileaks, theres no blind faith on them. However do you see any denials at all from those accused? DNC Wasserman Shultz stepped down.. etc etc on and on..these people know the emails are theirs. Sure wikileaks could theortically doctor these but their reputation is on the line every release. If their reputation is at all tarnished their whole business is moot. Reputation is all they got.. they check their sources and protect that.
Without the reputation noone would bother paying any attention..

Regarding Hillary, she'll have no qualms about inserting her ramrod up yer arses in the British isles. The neocons regard yer little group of islands as vassals of DC anyway lol. I do congrats you on ejection from the EU tho as you can check I posted vigorously in support of that leaving. However lots of you gents didnt really want to leave either. Much easier for Queen Hillary to control europe as a while (EU) .. but oh well.. just another few "dilplomatic" trips to the isles to sort things out get yall in line.. you want her.. careful what you wish for.

I'm not saying just you give up arms (I'm assuming you have at least one gun) I mean the whole country do, a law for everyone to forfeit arms, you would find there would be less killings in your free state. This is why we don't have quarter the gun crime you guys do.

With regards to Brexit, I'm under 30 and I voted remain, as did everyone else my age. It was the old people who voted to leave because they have some vendetta against the EU. They have ruined things for my generation, the cost of living us set to escalate.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Ok Ill leave this be.. founding fathers were intelligent wise gentlemen and they put this as #2 amendment.. must be important.. maybe not all can see that but I'm glad its the law of this land.

must be important....and relevant over 200 years ago.

Be interesting to see your thoughts on Brigands points

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by HelmutVisor

must be important....and relevant over 200 years ago.

Be interesting to see your thoughts on Brigands points

Firearm fires today just as it did 200 years ago
I dont see that humans and or governments have changed all that much either.. ergo relevant still

And yer older generation did you younguns a favor. Later on in life you may even come to thank them.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Firearm fires today just as it did 200 years ago
I dont see that humans and or governments have changed all that much either.. ergo relevant still

And yer older generation did you younguns a favor. Later on in life you may even come to thank them.

Erm actually they don't, not really sure centrefire rounds where around 200 years ago.

[BlueCrabMafia]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

This is the problem with America, they are too used having guns over there that if you can't use one you're considered not worthy.

If firearms were banned over there, only the law allowed to bare them. Gun crime would be basically non existent instead of a daily occurrence.

Ummmmmm.........no. Absolutely wrong. Ask Australia or Brazil how well their guns laws have been working for them. The answer is they haven't.

America is the number one country for gun ownership. 112 guns per 100 citizens. America also doesn't even crack the top ten of countries with the worst gun crime.

Gun ownership in America has steadily risen over the last 20 years. Record numbers in 2016 thanks to the current political climate. You know what's steadily dropped to record lows over the last 20 years? Deaths by firearms. Don't believe me? Look up FBI crime statistics for yourself.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I dont see that humans and or governments have changed all that much either.. ergo relevant still

No you're right. It was only yesterday on my drive to work that some fucker jumped out in the road on a horse and told me to 'stand and deliver'. I felt defenceless without a sidearm. Until I remembered I was sat in 1600kgs of car and just ran the twat over....

Originally Posted by insanecoder

And yer older generation did you younguns a favor. Later on in life you may even come to thank them.

Explain please.

[HelmutVisor]

Originally Posted by BlueCrabMafia

Ummmmmm.........no. Absolutely wrong. Ask Australia or Brazil how well their guns laws have been working for them. The answer is they haven't.

America is the number one country for gun ownership. 112 guns per 100 citizens. America also doesn't even crack the top ten of countries with the worst gun crime.

Notwithstanding Brazil but I cant remember the last time I saw on the UK news of a massacre in an Australian school, a shoot out or a policeman shooting inappropriately (because he knows 99% that whoever he comes across will have a firearm).

Make as many laws as you like but it will not stop a culture that kind of misunderstands the ethos behind what the founding fathers prescribed.

To be honest, this argument will go on and on with Americans defending their right and us Brits looking on in a confused manner. For your culture, its correct. For ours, its alien. Maybe the gap is more than just the Atlantic?