[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by SSIIJAR

Isn't the EU one of the slowest growing economies in the world today? So opening up our global trade route Is certainly an improvement from being restricted as we are today!

But if it only makes up a small proportion of overall world trade it can't make up for the 44% of trade we currently have with the EU countries, that is jeopardised.

There is nothing stopping us trading with the rest of the world currently, it just happens under EU negotiated trade deals. China is 4% and the US 17% of our export trade.

As well as trade I don't think most people realise just how much money and jobs come to the UK through the various EU related bodies that are based here. Everything from the European space programmes through to the European Medicines agency. These jobs we will be losing are highly skilled ones, with good salaries, thousands of which will relocate to another EU country.

[Bibbles]

Originally Posted by SSIIJAR

Isn't the EU one of the slowest growing economies in the world today? So opening up our global trade route Is certainly an improvement from being restricted as we are today!

Yep lets look at that statistic in isolation and grab hold of it with both hands. Libya, Myanmar and Guinea are where the growths at. I'll get some flights booked, lets go sell our stuff......

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by LobB

Terry it would really help you in life to be able to admit sometimes that you got it wrong. It will actually help your credibility, particularly in business.

Instead of doing so, you post alot of fatuous "fluff" to cover the matter. When you're communicating with senior people in the business world, less is more
I posted that one of the many issues that the EU has at this time is migrants.

You countered that it wasn't just an EU issue but a "global issue".

I then listed a dozen or so countries and continents, where migration is NOT an issue.

Ergo your assertion that migration is a "global problem" was wrong.

Thanks for your patronisation. Yes, you're the guy to give lessons on how to survive the corporate world.

Admitting you're wrong... Pot kettle black as they say!

Immigration is a global issue, as in it affects the whole world, in a global sense. You know what with wars, and water shortages, and all that. It's an issue regardless of the EU or otherwise.

Saying some countries aren't as impacted as others doesn't make it any less so. That's like saying they weren't really World Wars, because Wakanda didn't take part.

That's the global issue, and it's only going to get worse.

If you're talking about EU nationals coming to the UK then that's a different matter completely, and rather than an issue I see that as a good thing. On that matter I accept that folk see that differently.

But as said already it's a bullshit red herring, and again you still can't come up with any benefits as we stand in this moment. Talkiing about other stuff doesn't change that.

[antjos1]

We’d get our money back
Some of your taxes go the European Union. Some, but not all, of that money comes back to Britain in subsidies to farmers, grants to universities and so on. How much? In 2015, our gross contribution was almost £18 billion, but a budget “rebate” won my Margaret Thatcher in 1984 reduced that to £13 billion, around £200 per person in Britain. The Treasury says around £6 billion comes back to the UK in subsidies and grants, meaning our net EU payments are worth a little over £100 per head. In cash terms, Britain is the second biggest contributor to the EU budget after Germany.

We could decide who comes into our country
EU members must allow all EU citizens to enter their country and work without restrictions. The “right of free movement” has allowed hundreds of thousands of Europeans to live and work in Britain. In the 12 months ending in September 2015, an estimated 257,000 EU nationals arrived in the UK. The Office for National Statistics estimates that there are more than 2 million EU nationals working in the UK.



We could make our own laws again
Some British laws are passed and implemented because of decisions made at an EU level. Business For Britain, a pro-Leave group, reckons 65 per cent of new British laws are made in Brussels. The House of Commons Library says that between 1993 and 2014, a total of 231 Acts of Parliament were passed because of EU membership, 24 per cent of the total. In 2010, the UK government estimated that about 50 per cent of UK legislation with “significant economic impact” originates from EU legislation.

Our courts would have the final say over those laws
When Britain joined the EEC in 1972, Parliament accepted that European law could have primacy over UK law. That law is ultimately overseen by the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. The court’s power has grown steadily, and the Lisbon Treaty gave it power over 135 areas of criminal justice policy; Britain has opted out of all but 35 of those measures, but participates in the European Arrest Warrant scheme, which gives the court the right to order EU nationals (including Britons) be extradited to face trial elsewhere in the EU.

We wouldn’t have to accept decisions forced on us by other countries
Many EU decisions are taken under “qualified majority voting” rules, where countries’ voting weights depend on their size. That means countries can be outvoted, forced to accept decisions with which they disagree. Britain is outvoted more often than any other country. Between 2009 and 2015, Britain was on the losing side of 12 per cent of QMV decisions. By contrast, France was on the losing side of less than 1 per cent of votes. The areas where Britain was most often outvoted included the EU budget and EU foreign and security policy.

We wouldn’t have to listen to lots of European presidents
The EU is not a country but it has no fewer than five presidents. Donald Tusk is president of the European Council, the group comprised of EU heads of state and government. Jean Claude Juncker is president of the European Commission. Martin Schulz is president of the European Parliament. Mario Draghi is president of the European Central Bank. Jeroen Dijsselbloem is president of the Eurogroup of countries using the single currency. They wrote a report last year calling for much greater integration of the euro countries, another step on the road to a superstate.

We wouldn’t have to listen to, or fund, the European Commission
The European Commission is more than the EU's civil service. It also has the right to propose new laws and regulations. It employs around 23,000 officials. In 2011, a think-tank estimated that more than 10,000 Commission staff were paid more than £70,000.

We could have proper vacuum cleaners
Under an EU regulation that took effect in 2014, vacuum cleaners with the most powerful motors (1,600 watts and above) are banned. The European Commission says the ban will save energy and encourage more efficient devices. Which?, a consumer group, says it prohibits some of the best machines currently being made. Sir James Dyson, the British industrialist, says the efficiency rules were

We wouldn’t have to worry about Turkey
The EU wants to grow even bigger. There are five official candidate countries: Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania. To get in, each has to adopt all EU rules and political standards, then “accession” has to be approved by the leaders and parliaments of every EU member. The Commission says there's no prospect of any new members before 2020; many European politicians believe Turkey will never qualify, though both sides say they are committed to its entry.

We could set our own tax rates
The EU wants to “harmonise” the rate of VAT and the goods to which it applies. VAT must be at least 15 per cent but can be cut to 5 per cent on certain specified items. EU-wide consent is needed for any changes, which is why George Osborne needs European permission to reduce VAT on tampons and sanitary towels.

We could support British companies in trouble
EU single market rules discourage governments from giving financial support to private companies, to make sure “national champions” do not have a commercial advantage over rivals. Those rules meant that ministers couldn’t directly bail out Tata Steel’s UK plants.

Fish!
The EU’s common fisheries policy attempts to manage and share EU fish stocks by giving each nations’ fishermen quotas for what they can catch. Critics say that forces up prices for consumers, forces fishermen to dump millions of dead fish back in the sea, and decimates national fishing fleets.

We could get rid of windfarms
Wondering where all those wind turbines come from? Brussels, of course. EU members have agreed to increase the share of their electricity generated from “renewable” sources. By 2020, Britain is supposed to get 15 per cent of its power this way and could in theory face legal action if that target is missed.

We could have blue passports again
Your passport is red because Britain is in the EU, and EU members have standardised their passports, and agreed that “European Union” is the first thing written on the cover. The red passport replaced the old blue document in 1988.


And our own entry lanes at airports
Remember when you came back from holiday and there was an entry lane marked UK PASSPORT HOLDERS? It’s not there any more because EU rules oblige members to treat all EU nationals in the same way, so Britons have to queue up with their fellow Europeans when they want to come back into their own country.

We wouldn't have to fund EU foreign aid
The EU has its own foreign aid programme to give away your money. In 2013, it spent almost €15 billion (£11.8 billion) on foreign aid,

British MEPs would be sacked
Every month, the European Parliament – hundreds of MEPs, their staff, translators and other officials, 10,000 people in all – moves from Brussels to Strasbourg, where it sits for just four days. This “travelling circus” is widely regarded as being hugely wasteful: the Conservative Party has estimated the cost at £130m

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by antjos1

We’d get our money back
Some of your taxes go the European Union. Some, but not all, of that money comes back to Britain in subsidies to farmers, grants to universities and so on. How much? In 2015, our gross contribution was almost £18 billion, but a budget “rebate” won my Margaret Thatcher in 1984 reduced that to £13 billion, around £200 per person in Britain. The Treasury says around £6 billion comes back to the UK in subsidies and grants, meaning our net EU payments are worth a little over £100 per head. In cash terms, Britain is the second biggest contributor to the EU budget after Germany.

We could decide who comes into our country
EU members must allow all EU citizens to enter their country and work without restrictions. The “right of free movement” has allowed hundreds of thousands of Europeans to live and work in Britain. In the 12 months ending in September 2015, an estimated 257,000 EU nationals arrived in the UK. The Office for National Statistics estimates that there are more than 2 million EU nationals working in the UK.



We could make our own laws again
Some British laws are passed and implemented because of decisions made at an EU level. Business For Britain, a pro-Leave group, reckons 65 per cent of new British laws are made in Brussels. The House of Commons Library says that between 1993 and 2014, a total of 231 Acts of Parliament were passed because of EU membership, 24 per cent of the total. In 2010, the UK government estimated that about 50 per cent of UK legislation with “significant economic impact” originates from EU legislation.

Our courts would have the final say over those laws
When Britain joined the EEC in 1972, Parliament accepted that European law could have primacy over UK law. That law is ultimately overseen by the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. The court’s power has grown steadily, and the Lisbon Treaty gave it power over 135 areas of criminal justice policy; Britain has opted out of all but 35 of those measures, but participates in the European Arrest Warrant scheme, which gives the court the right to order EU nationals (including Britons) be extradited to face trial elsewhere in the EU.

We wouldn’t have to accept decisions forced on us by other countries
Many EU decisions are taken under “qualified majority voting” rules, where countries’ voting weights depend on their size. That means countries can be outvoted, forced to accept decisions with which they disagree. Britain is outvoted more often than any other country. Between 2009 and 2015, Britain was on the losing side of 12 per cent of QMV decisions. By contrast, France was on the losing side of less than 1 per cent of votes. The areas where Britain was most often outvoted included the EU budget and EU foreign and security policy.

We wouldn’t have to listen to lots of European presidents
The EU is not a country but it has no fewer than five presidents. Donald Tusk is president of the European Council, the group comprised of EU heads of state and government. Jean Claude Juncker is president of the European Commission. Martin Schulz is president of the European Parliament. Mario Draghi is president of the European Central Bank. Jeroen Dijsselbloem is president of the Eurogroup of countries using the single currency. They wrote a report last year calling for much greater integration of the euro countries, another step on the road to a superstate.

We wouldn’t have to listen to, or fund, the European Commission
The European Commission is more than the EU's civil service. It also has the right to propose new laws and regulations. It employs around 23,000 officials. In 2011, a think-tank estimated that more than 10,000 Commission staff were paid more than £70,000.

We could have proper vacuum cleaners
Under an EU regulation that took effect in 2014, vacuum cleaners with the most powerful motors (1,600 watts and above) are banned. The European Commission says the ban will save energy and encourage more efficient devices. Which?, a consumer group, says it prohibits some of the best machines currently being made. Sir James Dyson, the British industrialist, says the efficiency rules were

We wouldn’t have to worry about Turkey
The EU wants to grow even bigger. There are five official candidate countries: Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania. To get in, each has to adopt all EU rules and political standards, then “accession” has to be approved by the leaders and parliaments of every EU member. The Commission says there's no prospect of any new members before 2020; many European politicians believe Turkey will never qualify, though both sides say they are committed to its entry.

We could set our own tax rates
The EU wants to “harmonise” the rate of VAT and the goods to which it applies. VAT must be at least 15 per cent but can be cut to 5 per cent on certain specified items. EU-wide consent is needed for any changes, which is why George Osborne needs European permission to reduce VAT on tampons and sanitary towels.

We could support British companies in trouble
EU single market rules discourage governments from giving financial support to private companies, to make sure “national champions” do not have a commercial advantage over rivals. Those rules meant that ministers couldn’t directly bail out Tata Steel’s UK plants.

Fish!
The EU’s common fisheries policy attempts to manage and share EU fish stocks by giving each nations’ fishermen quotas for what they can catch. Critics say that forces up prices for consumers, forces fishermen to dump millions of dead fish back in the sea, and decimates national fishing fleets.

We could get rid of windfarms
Wondering where all those wind turbines come from? Brussels, of course. EU members have agreed to increase the share of their electricity generated from “renewable” sources. By 2020, Britain is supposed to get 15 per cent of its power this way and could in theory face legal action if that target is missed.

We could have blue passports again
Your passport is red because Britain is in the EU, and EU members have standardised their passports, and agreed that “European Union” is the first thing written on the cover. The red passport replaced the old blue document in 1988.


And our own entry lanes at airports
Remember when you came back from holiday and there was an entry lane marked UK PASSPORT HOLDERS? It’s not there any more because EU rules oblige members to treat all EU nationals in the same way, so Britons have to queue up with their fellow Europeans when they want to come back into their own country.

We wouldn't have to fund EU foreign aid
The EU has its own foreign aid programme to give away your money. In 2013, it spent almost €15 billion (£11.8 billion) on foreign aid,

British MEPs would be sacked
Every month, the European Parliament – hundreds of MEPs, their staff, translators and other officials, 10,000 people in all – moves from Brussels to Strasbourg, where it sits for just four days. This “travelling circus” is widely regarded as being hugely wasteful: the Conservative Party has estimated the cost at £130m

Thanks for attempting a sensible response.

Which of those are of particular importance to you?

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Thanks for attempting a sensible response.

Which of those are of particular importance to you?

All of them
Which of those are important to you?

[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by antjos1

All of them
Which of those are important to you?

Personally, none of them.

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by TimMcC

Personally, none of them.

Must be a remainer

[Tengocity]

I wish there was more democratic accountability with EU, and that it looked less like a gravy train.

Freedom to live and work across EU is something I liked.

Most of the rest is debatable or superfluous.

The first bit made me think it may be good in principle, but the pragmatic and economic aspects make remaining in the EU preferable to me.

A bit like my views on Scottish independence. Lovely idea, appealed to the heart. Bad idea when thought through properly.

[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by antjos1

Must be a remainer

Yes. I'm one of those younger chaps bitter about having my European identity forcefully removed, possibly similar to how you might feel if the British Union ended and you were no longer part of something you'd identified yourself with all your life.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by antjos1

We’d get our money back
Some of your taxes go the European Union. Some, but not all, of that money comes back to Britain in subsidies to farmers, grants to universities and so on. How much? In 2015, our gross contribution was almost £18 billion, but a budget “rebate” won my Margaret Thatcher in 1984 reduced that to £13 billion, around £200 per person in Britain. The Treasury says around £6 billion comes back to the UK in subsidies and grants, meaning our net EU payments are worth a little over £100 per head. In cash terms, Britain is the second biggest contributor to the EU budget after Germany.

We could decide who comes into our country
EU members must allow all EU citizens to enter their country and work without restrictions. The “right of free movement” has allowed hundreds of thousands of Europeans to live and work in Britain. In the 12 months ending in September 2015, an estimated 257,000 EU nationals arrived in the UK. The Office for National Statistics estimates that there are more than 2 million EU nationals working in the UK.



We could make our own laws again
Some British laws are passed and implemented because of decisions made at an EU level. Business For Britain, a pro-Leave group, reckons 65 per cent of new British laws are made in Brussels. The House of Commons Library says that between 1993 and 2014, a total of 231 Acts of Parliament were passed because of EU membership, 24 per cent of the total. In 2010, the UK government estimated that about 50 per cent of UK legislation with “significant economic impact” originates from EU legislation.

Our courts would have the final say over those laws
When Britain joined the EEC in 1972, Parliament accepted that European law could have primacy over UK law. That law is ultimately overseen by the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. The court’s power has grown steadily, and the Lisbon Treaty gave it power over 135 areas of criminal justice policy; Britain has opted out of all but 35 of those measures, but participates in the European Arrest Warrant scheme, which gives the court the right to order EU nationals (including Britons) be extradited to face trial elsewhere in the EU.

We wouldn’t have to accept decisions forced on us by other countries
Many EU decisions are taken under “qualified majority voting” rules, where countries’ voting weights depend on their size. That means countries can be outvoted, forced to accept decisions with which they disagree. Britain is outvoted more often than any other country. Between 2009 and 2015, Britain was on the losing side of 12 per cent of QMV decisions. By contrast, France was on the losing side of less than 1 per cent of votes. The areas where Britain was most often outvoted included the EU budget and EU foreign and security policy.

We wouldn’t have to listen to lots of European presidents
The EU is not a country but it has no fewer than five presidents. Donald Tusk is president of the European Council, the group comprised of EU heads of state and government. Jean Claude Juncker is president of the European Commission. Martin Schulz is president of the European Parliament. Mario Draghi is president of the European Central Bank. Jeroen Dijsselbloem is president of the Eurogroup of countries using the single currency. They wrote a report last year calling for much greater integration of the euro countries, another step on the road to a superstate.

We wouldn’t have to listen to, or fund, the European Commission
The European Commission is more than the EU's civil service. It also has the right to propose new laws and regulations. It employs around 23,000 officials. In 2011, a think-tank estimated that more than 10,000 Commission staff were paid more than £70,000.

We could have proper vacuum cleaners
Under an EU regulation that took effect in 2014, vacuum cleaners with the most powerful motors (1,600 watts and above) are banned. The European Commission says the ban will save energy and encourage more efficient devices. Which?, a consumer group, says it prohibits some of the best machines currently being made. Sir James Dyson, the British industrialist, says the efficiency rules were

We wouldn’t have to worry about Turkey
The EU wants to grow even bigger. There are five official candidate countries: Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania. To get in, each has to adopt all EU rules and political standards, then “accession” has to be approved by the leaders and parliaments of every EU member. The Commission says there's no prospect of any new members before 2020; many European politicians believe Turkey will never qualify, though both sides say they are committed to its entry.

We could set our own tax rates
The EU wants to “harmonise” the rate of VAT and the goods to which it applies. VAT must be at least 15 per cent but can be cut to 5 per cent on certain specified items. EU-wide consent is needed for any changes, which is why George Osborne needs European permission to reduce VAT on tampons and sanitary towels.

We could support British companies in trouble
EU single market rules discourage governments from giving financial support to private companies, to make sure “national champions” do not have a commercial advantage over rivals. Those rules meant that ministers couldn’t directly bail out Tata Steel’s UK plants.

Fish!
The EU’s common fisheries policy attempts to manage and share EU fish stocks by giving each nations’ fishermen quotas for what they can catch. Critics say that forces up prices for consumers, forces fishermen to dump millions of dead fish back in the sea, and decimates national fishing fleets.

We could get rid of windfarms
Wondering where all those wind turbines come from? Brussels, of course. EU members have agreed to increase the share of their electricity generated from “renewable” sources. By 2020, Britain is supposed to get 15 per cent of its power this way and could in theory face legal action if that target is missed.

We could have blue passports again
Your passport is red because Britain is in the EU, and EU members have standardised their passports, and agreed that “European Union” is the first thing written on the cover. The red passport replaced the old blue document in 1988.


And our own entry lanes at airports
Remember when you came back from holiday and there was an entry lane marked UK PASSPORT HOLDERS? It’s not there any more because EU rules oblige members to treat all EU nationals in the same way, so Britons have to queue up with their fellow Europeans when they want to come back into their own country.

We wouldn't have to fund EU foreign aid
The EU has its own foreign aid programme to give away your money. In 2013, it spent almost €15 billion (£11.8 billion) on foreign aid,

British MEPs would be sacked
Every month, the European Parliament – hundreds of MEPs, their staff, translators and other officials, 10,000 people in all – moves from Brussels to Strasbourg, where it sits for just four days. This “travelling circus” is widely regarded as being hugely wasteful: the Conservative Party has estimated the cost at £130m

There is some immense irony typing all that while England were playing in the World Cup.

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I wish there was more democratic accountability with EU, and that it looked less like a gravy train.

Freedom to live and work across EU is something I liked.

Most of the rest is debatable or superfluous.

The first bit made me think it may be good in principle, but the pragmatic and economic aspects make remaining in the EU preferable to me.

A bit like my views on Scottish independence. Lovely idea, appealed to the heart. Bad idea when thought through properly.

I respect your views but everybody's views were put to a referendum in 2016 and leave won that referendum. Obviously the ones that lost the vote have issues with it.
It seems that the remainers just won't accept any part that result.
Unfortunately that's what's called Democracy .

[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by antjos1

I respect your views but everybody's views were put to a referendum in 2016 and leave won that referendum. Obviously the ones that lost the vote have issues with it.
It seems that the remainers just won't accept any part that result.
Unfortunately that's what's called Democracy .

Democracy isn't losing an argument one time and never questioning it again. Otherwise we'd only have ever had one general election (and indeed not be leaving the EU)!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by antjos1

I respect your views but everybody's views were put to a referendum in 2016 and leave won that referendum. Obviously the ones that lost the vote have issues with it.
It seems that the remainers just won't accept any part that result.
Unfortunately that's what's called Democracy .

Democracy says we are still allowed an opinion and we can still believe it's the wrong direction. Unlike a general election where you can change things 5 years later this is going to be a detriment to far more folk than it benefits, and for generations to come.

In world where China and the US are heading for conflict, Russia is devious, we need the EU to be strong and work for the people of Europe, and I think being part of that from within was the better option.

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by antjos1

I respect your views but everybody's views were put to a referendum in 2016 and leave won that referendum. Obviously the ones that lost the vote have issues with it.
It seems that the remainers just won't accept any part that result.
Unfortunately that's what's called Democracy .

One of the reasons that we don't like the vote (and I can think of many), is the number of people who voted for the 'wrong' (and I can't think of a better word for a minute) reason. I hear many older people saying they voted leave because they were thinking of the younger generation. Well thanks, but you've just screwed many of the opportunities my kids now won't have, certainly not as easily, such as living and working anywhere in Europe. I guess they can now stay and pick the fruit and vegetables nobody else wants to...

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by TimMcC

Yes. I'm one of those younger chaps bitter about having my European identity forcefully removed, possibly similar to how you might feel if the British Union ended and you were no longer part of something you'd identified yourself with all your life.

I was about when we went into the common market in the seventies and i was a young 23years of age and my British identity was forcefully removed.
But many British people just had to get on with it instead of crying like spoilt brats because we went into the now called EU.
Life goes on
WHAT WILL BE WILL BE.

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

One of the reasons that we don't like the vote (and I can think of many), is the number of people who voted for the 'wrong' (and I can't think of a better word for a minute) reason. I hear many older people saying they voted leave because they were thinking of the younger generation. Well thanks, but you've just screwed many of the opportunities my kids now won't have, certainly not as easily, such as living and working anywhere in Europe. I guess they can now stay and pick the fruit and vegetables nobody else wants to...

Hear we go again anyone who voted leave are thick ,racist and didn't know what there where voting for

[Bibbles]

Originally Posted by antjos1

We’d get our money back
Some of your taxes go the European Union. Some, but not all, of that money comes back to Britain in subsidies to farmers, grants to universities and so on. How much? In 2015, our gross contribution was almost £18 billion, but a budget “rebate” won my Margaret Thatcher in 1984 reduced that to £13 billion, around £200 per person in Britain. The Treasury says around £6 billion comes back to the UK in subsidies and grants, meaning our net EU payments are worth a little over £100 per head. In cash terms, Britain is the second biggest contributor to the EU budget after Germany.

We could decide who comes into our country
EU members must allow all EU citizens to enter their country and work without restrictions. The “right of free movement” has allowed hundreds of thousands of Europeans to live and work in Britain. In the 12 months ending in September 2015, an estimated 257,000 EU nationals arrived in the UK. The Office for National Statistics estimates that there are more than 2 million EU nationals working in the UK.



We could make our own laws again
Some British laws are passed and implemented because of decisions made at an EU level. Business For Britain, a pro-Leave group, reckons 65 per cent of new British laws are made in Brussels. The House of Commons Library says that between 1993 and 2014, a total of 231 Acts of Parliament were passed because of EU membership, 24 per cent of the total. In 2010, the UK government estimated that about 50 per cent of UK legislation with “significant economic impact” originates from EU legislation.

Our courts would have the final say over those laws
When Britain joined the EEC in 1972, Parliament accepted that European law could have primacy over UK law. That law is ultimately overseen by the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. The court’s power has grown steadily, and the Lisbon Treaty gave it power over 135 areas of criminal justice policy; Britain has opted out of all but 35 of those measures, but participates in the European Arrest Warrant scheme, which gives the court the right to order EU nationals (including Britons) be extradited to face trial elsewhere in the EU.

We wouldn’t have to accept decisions forced on us by other countries
Many EU decisions are taken under “qualified majority voting” rules, where countries’ voting weights depend on their size. That means countries can be outvoted, forced to accept decisions with which they disagree. Britain is outvoted more often than any other country. Between 2009 and 2015, Britain was on the losing side of 12 per cent of QMV decisions. By contrast, France was on the losing side of less than 1 per cent of votes. The areas where Britain was most often outvoted included the EU budget and EU foreign and security policy.

We wouldn’t have to listen to lots of European presidents
The EU is not a country but it has no fewer than five presidents. Donald Tusk is president of the European Council, the group comprised of EU heads of state and government. Jean Claude Juncker is president of the European Commission. Martin Schulz is president of the European Parliament. Mario Draghi is president of the European Central Bank. Jeroen Dijsselbloem is president of the Eurogroup of countries using the single currency. They wrote a report last year calling for much greater integration of the euro countries, another step on the road to a superstate.

We wouldn’t have to listen to, or fund, the European Commission
The European Commission is more than the EU's civil service. It also has the right to propose new laws and regulations. It employs around 23,000 officials. In 2011, a think-tank estimated that more than 10,000 Commission staff were paid more than £70,000.

We could have proper vacuum cleaners
Under an EU regulation that took effect in 2014, vacuum cleaners with the most powerful motors (1,600 watts and above) are banned. The European Commission says the ban will save energy and encourage more efficient devices. Which?, a consumer group, says it prohibits some of the best machines currently being made. Sir James Dyson, the British industrialist, says the efficiency rules were

We wouldn’t have to worry about Turkey
The EU wants to grow even bigger. There are five official candidate countries: Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania. To get in, each has to adopt all EU rules and political standards, then “accession” has to be approved by the leaders and parliaments of every EU member. The Commission says there's no prospect of any new members before 2020; many European politicians believe Turkey will never qualify, though both sides say they are committed to its entry.

We could set our own tax rates
The EU wants to “harmonise” the rate of VAT and the goods to which it applies. VAT must be at least 15 per cent but can be cut to 5 per cent on certain specified items. EU-wide consent is needed for any changes, which is why George Osborne needs European permission to reduce VAT on tampons and sanitary towels.

We could support British companies in trouble
EU single market rules discourage governments from giving financial support to private companies, to make sure “national champions” do not have a commercial advantage over rivals. Those rules meant that ministers couldn’t directly bail out Tata Steel’s UK plants.

Fish!
The EU’s common fisheries policy attempts to manage and share EU fish stocks by giving each nations’ fishermen quotas for what they can catch. Critics say that forces up prices for consumers, forces fishermen to dump millions of dead fish back in the sea, and decimates national fishing fleets.

We could get rid of windfarms
Wondering where all those wind turbines come from? Brussels, of course. EU members have agreed to increase the share of their electricity generated from “renewable” sources. By 2020, Britain is supposed to get 15 per cent of its power this way and could in theory face legal action if that target is missed.

We could have blue passports again
Your passport is red because Britain is in the EU, and EU members have standardised their passports, and agreed that “European Union” is the first thing written on the cover. The red passport replaced the old blue document in 1988.


And our own entry lanes at airports
Remember when you came back from holiday and there was an entry lane marked UK PASSPORT HOLDERS? It’s not there any more because EU rules oblige members to treat all EU nationals in the same way, so Britons have to queue up with their fellow Europeans when they want to come back into their own country.

We wouldn't have to fund EU foreign aid
The EU has its own foreign aid programme to give away your money. In 2013, it spent almost €15 billion (£11.8 billion) on foreign aid,

British MEPs would be sacked
Every month, the European Parliament – hundreds of MEPs, their staff, translators and other officials, 10,000 people in all – moves from Brussels to Strasbourg, where it sits for just four days. This “travelling circus” is widely regarded as being hugely wasteful: the Conservative Party has estimated the cost at £130m

In the time it took you to type that or paste from a UKIP brochure you could have researched it properly and discovered that over 50% of that is pure bollocks.

[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by antjos1

I was about when we went into the common market in the seventies and i was a young 23years of age and my British identity was forcefully removed.
But many British people just had to get on with it instead of crying like spoilt brats because we went into the now called EU.
Life goes on
WHAT WILL BE WILL BE.

Except you were still British...

And spent all the intervening time moaning about the EU until eventually you achieved Brexit?

Can't I have the same rights to moan and hopefully one day rejoin the EU?

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by Bibbles

In the time it took you to type that or paste from a UKIP brochure you could have researched it properly and discovered that over 50% of that is pure bollocks.

It wasn't from UKIP brochure but which 50% is utter bollocks.

[antjos1]

Originally Posted by TimMcC

Except you were still British...

And spent all the intervening time moaning about the EU until eventually you achieved Brexit?

Can't I have the same rights to moan and hopefully one day rejoin the EU?

He he you did say brexit is now achieved didn't you.
And of course you can moan about it's not what you wanted.
💂*♂️💂*♂️

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Democracy says we are still allowed an opinion and we can still believe it's the wrong direction.

Agreed but ever since the result there's been a distinct impression that a large proportion of those who granted the referendum in the first place (i.e. MP's) have shown no interest whatsoever in trying to work together to make Brexit a success. Perhaps not surprising as most supported Remain but hardly a shock the negotiations with the EU have been more difficult given the lack of any united front at home.

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Unlike a general election where you can change things 5 years later this is going to be a detriment to far more folk than it benefits, and for generations to come.

An opinion to which you're clearly entitled but that doesn't make it a fact!

Originally Posted by Tengocity

In world where China and the US are heading for conflict, Russia is devious, we need the EU to be strong and work for the people of Europe, and I think being part of that from within was the better option.

Nothing to stop us continuing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the EU on issues where we share the same views and values and I think and hope we will. However, we don't need to be part of their bureaucracy to achieve that!