[Rob340i]

What bolt on mods without any engine tuning are you noticing the most power increase from. I see many people doing downpipes exhaust and air intakes. Ushually with jb4, AA, Dinan or other piggyback ecu. I want to know if anyone is seeing decent gains without tuning and which ones are worth it and which ones are not. Please note whether it was butt dyno or actual dyno!

[wassy4]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

What bolt on mods without any engine tuning are you noticing the most power increase from. I see many people doing downpipes exhaust and air intakes. Ushually with jb4, AA, Dinan or other piggyback ecu. I want to know if anyone is seeing decent gains without tuning and which ones are worth it and which ones are not. Please note whether it was butt dyno or actual dyno!

DP will give you most power increase but you really won't take full advantage of its purpose without a tune.

Intakes give you very little power gain if any at all, like 5-8hp MAX.

Exhaust will also give little power gain if any at all, we're talking like 15hp MAX.

The stock intake, exhaust, and downpipe are more than adequate until you start getting into stuff like big turbos. They're mostly for the noise over the power with the exception of the downpipe. Your best bet is to just do a tune + all the other mods above. The tunes usually have very conservative maps and are generally safe to run until you start messing around with custom settings and you don't know what you're doing.

If you're worried about reliability, start off with one of the cheaper boost controller options. I'd recommend just doing JB4 or Activ-8 though.

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by wassy4

DP will give you most power increase but you really won't take full advantage of its purpose without a tune.

Intakes give you very little power gain if any at all, like 5-8hp MAX.

Exhaust will also give little power gain if any at all, we're talking like 15hp MAX.

The stock intake, exhaust, and downpipe are more than adequate until you start getting into stuff like big turbos. They're mostly for the noise over the power with the exception of the downpipe. Your best bet is to just do a tune + all the other mods above. The tunes usually have very conservative maps and are generally safe to run until you start messing around with custom settings and you don't know what you're doing.

If you're worried about reliability, start off with one of the cheaper boost controller options. I'd recommend just doing JB4 or Activ-8 though.

Thanks for the info. Main goal extra hp/tq, I am not concerned with making more noise from air intake or exhaust, but what comes from dp will be fine. Short term considering ER or CG ds-1 catted downpipe and JB+ maybe MPPSK. I dont want to deal with jb4 updating/logging and all that. After warranty expires i may do upgraded turbo kit. So the dp will still be adequate.

[wassy4]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

Thanks for the info. Main goal extra hp/tq, I am not concerned with making more noise from air intake or exhaust, but what comes from dp will be fine. Short term considering ER or CG ds-1 catted downpipe and JB+ maybe MPPSK. I dont want to deal with jb4 updating/logging and all that. After warranty expires i may do upgraded turbo kit. So the dp will still be adequate.

If you don't want to deal with JB4 logging I highly recommend Active Autowerke's tune. However, JB4 has default maps that don't require extra tuning. MPPSK is overpriced if you didn't already do it from factory. JB+ will get you similar power to MPPSK and with downpipe you'll probably be 370-380 whp. With the AA tune + downpipe I'm around 400 whp and 405+ wtq

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by wassy4

If you don't want to deal with JB4 logging I highly recommend Active Autowerke's tune. However, JB4 has default maps that don't require extra tuning. MPPSK is overpriced if you didn't already do it from factory. JB+ will get you similar power to MPPSK and with downpipe you'll probably be 370-380 whp. With the AA tune + downpipe I'm around 400 whp and 405+ wtq

The AA tune install looks a little bit much, not that i cant do it. Just not sure i want to. I did not port install MPPSK so i may ditch that idea for a better exhaust for the money later. Is that 400 whp in your car from the dyno or your estimation? I have heard about some of the issues the piggybacks run into on automatics thankfully im in 6 speed. The AA tune will it adjust to different mods or it does the same regardless. I belive the jb+ does not care what you have on it because it mostly just works the boost level from what i know.

[wassy4]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

The AA tune install looks a little bit much, not that i cant do it. Just not sure i want to. I did not port install MPPSK so i may ditch that idea for a better exhaust for the money later. Is that 400 whp in your car from the dyno or your estimation? I have heard about some of the issues the piggybacks run into on automatics thankfully im in 6 speed. The AA tune will it adjust to different mods or it does the same regardless. I belive the jb+ does not care what you have on it because it mostly just works the boost level from what i know.

AA will adjust.. I'm running downpipe + AWE exhaust + intake. The only issues are throttle closures because of the fuel cap above 400whp and that will happen on both manuals and automatics (only with downpipe).

Anything the JB+ does, AA and JB4 will do better. I believe there's a thread on here where each tune is compared. A big thing is that AA/JB4 are both boost by RPM and I believe the JB+ is boost by gear. Boost by RPM usually means smoother power delivery. AA took 15 minutes to install. JB4 is the most complicated to install at first. Only issue is the price compared to JB4.

The 400whp is an estimation based on dynos with the same mods on the forum. I'm going to get on the dyno soon so I can stop saying "around ###" but I bet it's very close to that number or even higher. People on the B58 facebook group are getting 415whp with JB4 and E30 so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by wassy4

AA will adjust.. I'm running downpipe + AWE exhaust + intake. The only issues are throttle closures because of the fuel cap above 400whp and that will happen on both manuals and automatics (only with downpipe).

AA took 15 minutes to install. JB4 is the most complicated to install at first. Only issue is the price compared to JB4.

The 400whp is an estimation based on dynos with the same mods on the forum. I'm going to get on the dyno soon so I can stop saying "around ###" but I bet it's very close to that number or even higher. People on the B58 facebook group are getting 415whp with JB4 and E30 so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

So if i went AA tune and CG ds-1 downpipe catted staying with stick exhaust for now i will prob be around 375 and may not have any throttle closure or fuel cap? What downpipe are you running?

[wassy4]

You'll probably be closer to the 390-400whp range unless x-drive.

I'm running a VRSF catless dp. I do get throttle closures but it's also very cold right now. Doesn't really happen in warm weather. You will probably experience them but they have been relatively minor with the AA tune and not as overblown an issue as some people with JB4 have stated. JB4 + EWG/FF wires can mitigate but won't completely get rid of them. All tunes are similar power since we're all at the same fuel limit. Only way around the limit is meth injection/E85. I did not get throttle closures prior to downpipe.

[mike@x-ph.com]

If you want max power you need JB4

Jb+ will not provide as much power as JB4 with downpipe

You can do catless or catted DP, both will provide same gains on stock turbo

[G.Newt]

Pure Turbos said their stage 1 made a 30whp/20lb-ft increase on 93 with intake, no tune.

Idk if that's worth the $1,200 cost + ~$2k refundable core charge.

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

Pure Turbos said their stage 1 made a 30whp/20lb-ft increase on 93 with intake, no tune.

Idk if that's worth the $1,200 cost + ~$2k refundable core charge.

Like i said turbo upgrade would be the most modding i would do, and way in the future when there is nothing left to be gained elsewhere.

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

If you want max power you need JB4

Jb+ will not provide as much power as JB4 with downpipe

You can do catless or catted DP, both will provide same gains on stock turbo

I am for just looking for a slight increase, and if later i decide i want more i will trade up to jb4 if i get jb+.

[Rob340i]

Does anyone know how er or cg ds-1 downpipe sound on the stock exhaust with no other mods at all on the car? Will it just increase the sound a little louder in sport plus or with it be apparent in all modes. Is it a large differnce in sound quality on stock setup?

[wassy4]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

Does anyone know how er or cg ds-1 downpipe sound on the stock exhaust with no other mods at all on the car? Will it just increase the sound a little louder in sport plus or with it be apparent in all modes. Is it a large differnce in sound quality on stock setup?

It'll be a little louder and deeper than stock. I disabled the valve on mine but it should be noticeable across all modes but it definitely won't be obnoxious. It'll be most noticeable when you floor it though. I'd say 30% louder or so.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

I am for just looking for a slight increase, and if later i decide i want more i will trade up to jb4 if i get jb+.

Sounds good

Originally Posted by Rob340i

Does anyone know how er or cg ds-1 downpipe sound on the stock exhaust with no other mods at all on the car? Will it just increase the sound a little louder in sport plus or with it be apparent in all modes. Is it a large differnce in sound quality on stock setup?

Catted will give you a slight increase over stock.
You will mostly notice it on wide open throttle and cold start.
With normal driving you wont notice any difference.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Other then a tune, catless or high flo catted downpipes give the most performance gains, followed by meth injection.

Intakes / exhausts all give marginal power gains. The big mods are Tune. like JB4 and downpipes.

Mike

[Rob340i]

Ok then thats the way i am going to go for now is Downpipe then jb+, but i am kinda worried about warranty even though i know to deny a claim they have to prove the dp is the fault. I am not willing to swap it out every time i go to the dealership. And my 4 year warranty just started. Should i wait or just go ahead with it you think?

[wassy4]

Originally Posted by Rob340i

Ok then thats the way i am going to go for now is Downpipe then jb+, but i am kinda worried about warranty even though i know to deny a claim they have to prove the dp is the fault. I am not willing to swap it out every time i go to the dealership. And my 4 year warranty just started. Should i wait or just go ahead with it you think?

Ask your advisor how they are about mods and start building a relationship with the dealer. Chances are they won't say anything. I went in the day after installing my downpipe with a CEL on and they did the service I needed.

[Rob340i]

Originally Posted by wassy4

Ask your advisor how they are about mods and start building a relationship with the dealer. Chances are they won't say anything. I went in the day after installing my downpipe with a CEL on and they did the service I needed.

I am in italy and have no idea if they care or when i go back to the US where i will be living but i guess i will hit that hurdle when i get to it. IMO warranties are meant to last just long enough till you start seeing problems, as long as you dont over do it with the modding.

[CobraMarty]

Increased intake valve lift but IDK if that is considered 'bolt-on'.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by wassy4

Ask your advisor how they are about mods and start building a relationship with the dealer. Chances are they won't say anything. I went in the day after installing my downpipe with a CEL on and they did the service I needed.

+1

Mike

[Rob340i]

If i went MPPSK could i do jb+ along with it?