[328iX]

Originally Posted by skyline408

I'm pretty sure it's not one comment, but rather how you come across as a whole on this forum.

I've been around enough car enthusiasts forums to know we all have different personalities and have different ways of communicating--and that is fine. I think this place would be better if before we post think if we're being antagonistic, or being genuinely helpful.

That said, we all share the enthusiasm for the same car -- I hope, so we should all be more helpful towards one another.

I hope you don't take it as a dig, I genuinely do think you have some great contribution here!

I'm literally just trying to help OP and give a more realistic situation to a bad vibration at 7k miles, i told him to get the car at that price, sorry i'm not overly enthusiastic, nor am i trying to argue.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by sugargenius

Went back to the dealer today with my mechanic buddy. He saw a few things I missed. Nothing major. Just some curb rash and a tiny paint chip. Car brakes fine at highway speed with hard braking or otherwise.

Offered the dealer $36000 and scratch Phantom Footprints ($295) and Permaplate ($499). Sales Mgr said thanks but no thanks

What dealer? Because if you don't pull the trigger, I'm going to buy this car.

[sugargenius]

Originally Posted by tex2670

What dealer? Because if you don't pull the trigger, I'm going to buy this car.

Lol, I'm picking it up tomorrow. I got them to knock off the Permaplate and bump my trade in up $500.

[Derek Mc]

I have had direct experience with Executive cars too, with another brand, and I can tell you they are governed and managed to a far stricter state than say a personal lease, all damage has to be reported and the driver held to account, the condition and repair log is scrutinised for abuse, the cars are representing the manufacturer,
I have even known of drivers getting stripped of the privilege for what may seem pretty small infringements such as speeding fines.

As for the brakes, I had this occur on my current car after some clown walked out from between parked cars causing an emergency stop then sitting with my foot on the brake caused the hot spot warp,,, just saying it is not right to generalise it as abuse,,,,,,

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by 328dX

That's due to abuse, someone overheating the brakes and the rotors warped. At 7k miles it's not due to "residue build up"

It’s more likely that rust caused uneven wear against the pads, leading to buildup. Sounds like the owner didn’t drive the car much, and probably drove it fairly gently, which would lead to both rust and deposits on the rotors.

It’s pretty hard to warp rotors on a BMW. I’ve driven a couple older fully-stock 3-series on the track; no issues at all with the brakes.

Here’s some interesting reading from Alcon:

“Every warped brake disc that we’ve investigated with the assistance of our suppliers shows uneven patches of friction material from the brake pads on the surface of the disc. These patches cause variation in thickness (run-out) and the vibration under braking. Brake manufacturers have been struggling to deal with this situation for years because warped discs are so readily blamed for brake-related vibrations.“

https://alconkits.com/support/brake-...d-brake-rotors

And more from Zechhausen Racing:

“Judder can occur on the street or track and, in both cases, is caused by uneven build-up of pad material on the surfaces of the rotors. It is aggravated by the high temperatures experienced at the track and by switching back and forth between two incompatible friction materials.

Despite the popular myth, brake judder is not caused by warped rotors. Judder is the result of a thickness variation in pad buildup on the rotors' surfaces.”

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6444

[328iX]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

It’s more likely that rust caused uneven wear against the pads, leading to buildup. Sounds like the owner didn’t drive the car much, and probably drove it fairly gently, which would lead to both rust and deposits on the rotors.

It’s pretty hard to warp rotors on a BMW. I’ve driven a couple older fully-stock 3-series on the track; no issues at all with the brakes.

Here’s some interesting reading from Alcon:

“Every warped brake disc that we’ve investigated with the assistance of our suppliers shows uneven patches of friction material from the brake pads on the surface of the disc. These patches cause variation in thickness (run-out) and the vibration under braking. Brake manufacturers have been struggling to deal with this situation for years because warped discs are so readily blamed for brake-related vibrations.“

https://alconkits.com/support/brake-...d-brake-rotors

And more from Zechhausen Racing:

“Judder can occur on the street or track and, in both cases, is caused by uneven build-up of pad material on the surfaces of the rotors. It is aggravated by the high temperatures experienced at the track and by switching back and forth between two incompatible friction materials.

Despite the popular myth, brake judder is not caused by warped rotors. Judder is the result of a thickness variation in pad buildup on the rotors' surfaces.”

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6444

I'm done arguing over it, to have significant pad transfer it requires heavy braking, but then again i'm not on the east coast idk what you guys deal with, peace

[Rebound]

Originally Posted by Derek Mc

I have had direct experience with Executive cars too, with another brand, and I can tell you they are governed and managed to a far stricter state than say a personal lease, all damage has to be reported and the driver held to account, the condition and repair log is scrutinised for abuse, the cars are representing the manufacturer,
I have even known of drivers getting stripped of the privilege for what may seem pretty small infringements such as speeding fines.

As for the brakes, I had this occur on my current car after some clown walked out from between parked cars causing an emergency stop then sitting with my foot on the brake caused the hot spot warp,,, just saying it is not right to generalise it as abuse,,,,,,

The Executive Cars don't necessarily go to the very top executives (who are in Germany, I believe?). But it's a perk for senior managers and I'd expect that most of these people treat their cars well... why wouldn't they?

[2000Z3M]

Originally Posted by 328dX

That's due to abuse, someone overheating the brakes and the rotors warped. At 7k miles it's not due to "residue build up"

wow 12k WHOLE miles? such a testament

brakes do not warp at all. if they get that hot they fail.

warped brakes are use brake pad build up

[Derek Mc]

Originally Posted by Rebound

The Executive Cars don't necessarily go to the very top executives (who are in Germany, I believe?). But it's a perk for senior managers and I'd expect that most of these people treat their cars well... why wouldn't they?

My experience is with Chrysler - Mercedes (back in the day) their Exec demo's were issued to regional staff who work over several dealerships, and also extencded to partners / spouses (as we had for my wife a succession of Grand Cherokee Overland) and the scrutiny they went through on return was very intimidating, hence we all drove the cars with utmost care. Hence my assumption that BMW, Audi etc all operate in a similar manner.

[Gbtr6]

What is Phantom Footprints, and Permaplate?

Perry

[John in VA]

Originally Posted by Gbtr6

What is Phantom Footprints, and Permaplate?

Got Google? Dealer upselling of an anti-theft feature & paint/glass/interior protection.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

It’s more likely that rust caused uneven wear against the pads, leading to buildup. Sounds like the owner didn’t drive the car much, and probably drove it fairly gently, which would lead to both rust and deposits on the rotors.

This. Forums like to over exaggerate and conclude the worst. BMW Demo/Executive demo does not necessarily mean that the car was driven every day, beat up, and or given to the media for demo/presentation purposes. While it could be one or all of the above, a BMW or executive demo is just a label they use for a car that was licensed/registered to use sparingly. These cars could just be used for head office employees that need to visit surrounding dealerships or go to meetings and all other times it just sits in the lot. I've seen 7 Series that have an in-service date of well over a year but has less than 500km but has to go through relatively thorough reconditioning just for retail. I highly doubt that you can do any sort of serious damage or wear in less than 500km on something like a 7 Series.

BMW Demo's are an excellent way to get a nice discount on a car that usually has no more than 5,000km. The retailer gets a nice "mileage discount" off invoice and the car is subjected to monthly program rates and incentives. Most times I would trust a BMW demo over a dealership demo unit.

[montr]

I bough a 2018 430i CPO back in June 2018. Car had 10K miles and was put in service in Oct 2017. It was an executive car and was in excellent condition. I got the port of entry (Charleston SC) inspection sheet and the 2 large unused windows stickers (applied to new cars on dealer lot). Paperwork show that it was shipped to the BMW factory in Greer SC as a "Company Car". The sale manager told me that I should go for the company cars. I am happy with my purchase and the saving.

According to BMW, I am the first owner, the 3 year BMW Maintenance Plan in still in place for me. I just got the free 20K miles service 3 weeks ago.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by Gbtr6

What is Phantom Footprints, and Permaplate?

Perry

Dealer add-on ripoffs.

[Zanity]

I would not get it personally, demos are the cars you see on youtube being driven on track by journalists, they are beat on the hardest, next are loaners, I had a X2 M35i loaner 3000km that stuttered like crazy at idle, had to restart the car to get it go away. they are just redlined everyday and wrecked from day 1. next up are lease returns, I had friends who lease bmws and i seen them drive, i would not buy those cars period. unfortunately most bmws are leased, so it takes time to find the right car. My current F32 I bought off a 1 owner older business lady who used it in ECO PRO only in its entire life of 30,000km. And she babied the car and did all services on time at the dealer.

[AlpineX]

Originally Posted by Zanity

I would not get it personally, demos are the cars you see on youtube being driven on track by journalists, they are beat on the hardest, next are loaners, I had a X2 M35i loaner 3000km that stuttered like crazy at idle, had to restart the car to get it go away. they are just redlined everyday and wrecked from day 1. next up are lease returns, I had friends who lease bmws and i seen them drive, i would not buy those cars period. unfortunately most bmws are leased, so it takes time to find the right car. My current F32 I bought off a 1 owner older business lady who used it in ECO PRO only in its entire life of 30,000km. And she babied the car and did all services on time at the dealer.

No way an under driven car is automatically or generally in better mechanical condition than a car that was warmed up and driven at 2/3-3/4 every week.

"Manufacturer vehicles" are for journalists.

Lease return are a mixed bag, the "long term renters" are charged for damages, so only the idiots truly beat on them.

EcoPro means run away. Lifetime of ASS usage, no thanks.

Ymmv

[328iX]

Originally Posted by Zanity

I would not get it personally, demos are the cars you see on youtube being driven on track by journalists, they are beat on the hardest, next are loaners, I had a X2 M35i loaner 3000km that stuttered like crazy at idle, had to restart the car to get it go away. they are just redlined everyday and wrecked from day 1. next up are lease returns, I had friends who lease bmws and i seen them drive, i would not buy those cars period. unfortunately most bmws are leased, so it takes time to find the right car. My current F32 I bought off a 1 owner older business lady who used it in ECO PRO only in its entire life of 30,000km. And she babied the car and did all services on time at the dealer.

+1, most of these people have never seen demo cars, they got 5k miles and look like 50k. They're beat to shit..

Those who think they're clean don't know anything about paint, detailing, what worn leather/plastics look like, and go through drive thru car washes

[Elvisfan]

Have you checked car max or KBB to see what current values are? What’s the inservice date. In other words how long will the warranty last? You may be able to negotiate an extended warranty. I had 3.5 years left on mine.

[B58 parts]

Mine was a demo. It will say on the one sheet the last name of the employee. And .. in my case the idrive wasn't cleared. It was not a track beater car for sure. The employees I would think almost always take great care of them. My buddy used to get one for another manufacturer, he always kept it clean etc.

6k when I bought it, now 27k and no real issues at all, apart from interior build quality. Oil analysis was 10/10 and it shifts nicely, I think I can run it up past 100k.

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by AlpineX

No way an under driven car is automatically or generally in better mechanical condition than a car that was warmed up and driven at 2/3-3/4 every week.

"Manufacturer vehicles" are for journalists.

Lease return are a mixed bag, the "long term renters" are charged for damages, so only the idiots truly beat on them.

EcoPro means run away. Lifetime of ASS usage, no thanks.

Ymmv

You are right to say that lower mileage vehicles should not be automatically assumed to be in better shape, but it's definitely a better start, obviously low mileage isn't everything, I inspect it throughly mechanically and scan OBD for all codes etc. But I prefer to start with a lower mileage vehicle, and if you like higher mileage ones that are more prone to have worn out parts, go right ahead.

Your argument for ECO PRO being run away ass cars makes no sense, you're telling me with idential maintenance you rather have a newer car with low milage that's redlined all the time than driven in ECO mode during break in period? My car throws my head to headrest when I punch it in sport+, so it's initial life of ECO mode had no ill affect on power what so ever.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by sugargenius

MSRP was 57,740. They are asking $36,893 or ~35% off MSRP

Thats a very nice deal with low miles. I would seriously consider. Look for signs of wear and abuse in the interior and exterior of the car, test if the brakes seem to have good bite. A car that is abused is usually abused all around and likewise a well taken care of one is usually taken care inside and out. Good luck

[328iX]

Eco mode i would assume is better for the car, less average engine life RPM's, always shifting at lower rpms, yes it may lug the engine here and there, but don't think it's bad.