01-31-2022, 07:50 PM | #1 |
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E85 yet struggle to bump up timing!
So I'm running E85 now and was hoping to be able to run more boost and timing than my pump gas tune ... I'm at a max of 14 degrees now up from 11.5 degrees advance on 93 octane on similar boost, but starting to get some timing correction up top.
Do you think its winter E85 gas that's the limiting factor?? I know others are able to get 15 to 18 degrees timing without any corrections... wondering what I'm missing. Would have thought with E85 and WMI kit running strong that I wouldn't have an issue with bumping timing. Thoughts? https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f8...0b4365e4cd6df2
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01-31-2022, 08:55 PM | #2 |
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It might the other way around. They need to run higher timing due to poor fuel causing slower combustion. Or it could be the neutered winter blend we get. I'd think E85 should be less prone to that since it is more of a "natural antifreeze" with the ethanol.
Where do you get your E85 from? |
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01-31-2022, 09:37 PM | #3 | |
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02-01-2022, 12:17 AM | #5 | |
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02-01-2022, 01:10 AM | #6 | |
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.... I see 1st cylinder is weak ... I will swap plug and coil not sure why it's weak ... also I am gapped 0 022 maybe should drop down to 0.020 |
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02-01-2022, 02:10 AM | #7 |
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over boosting at 3800rpm to 29psi and 247 load, I would ask your tuner to reduce the turbine power in that area, high load/TQ at lower rpm is not really good for your engine and doesn't really make you much faster IMHO
also yes please do a clean log form 2000prm to 6800 rpm as posted, it could be more of an overshoot issue, or a PID tuning issue (feed back) not necessarily the turbine power (feed forward ) tables, but in any case it should be tuned out you should be able to run 17-18 deg >6krpm with e40 I think with that low IAT, but that said a few correction's now and again also can happen and it pretty normal, you need to see if they happen more and more in a longer run or they settle out to ideal to see if you really have an octane issue |
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02-03-2022, 12:20 PM | #8 |
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I'm able to get to 14 degrees at 6200 rpms with zero timing corrections and 26-28 psi. I think its either the Ethanol content isn't that great, or I need to regap my spark plugs. I'm sitting at 0.022" from my 93 octane tune ... thinking with E85 and more boost I should gap down to 0.02"
Here are my latest logs from this morning ... note the low IATs from crazy cold weather!!! https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61fc...729b3a5086f12e https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61fc...0b437c875e3eac
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02-03-2022, 12:24 PM | #9 | |
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02-17-2022, 10:45 PM | #10 |
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https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f1...90c60c0769c69a
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61f1...90c609919ff44e I think part of the problem is when I floor it, it takes a while for the throttle position sensor to show close to 100% ... here are two newer logs, I'm still not thrilled with the 30 psi and high load at ~3700 rpms, my tuner prefers to run higher boost and lower timing than others suggest like GLEM ... I will regap my plugs down to 0.020" as I think running 25 to 30 psi is too much for 0.022" .... my E85 estimated torque and MAF flow figures are not any higher than my 93 octane / 98 ron fuel tune right now ... but the car feels faster for sure. Any suggestions?
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02-18-2022, 01:58 AM | #11 |
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Not doubting your tuner but I find it strange that he prefers to run high boost low timing as their is absolutely no benefit by doing so, but the downside is risking knock, more wear on the turbo and higher fuel consumption.
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-------- Tunes: Self Made Tunes - MHD ------ Fuel: 92RON/87OCT -------- Last edited by IMS-340C; 02-18-2022 at 02:55 AM.. |
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02-19-2022, 02:44 AM | #12 | |
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02-19-2022, 05:02 AM | #13 |
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True but what are the power gains ? as you know you can achieve same power with less boost/more timing.
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02-19-2022, 07:58 AM | #15 | |
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I don't run high ethanol concentrations in cold weather. The car really labors to start in cold temperatures. |
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02-20-2022, 09:49 PM | #16 |
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That's a great question. I'm going to dyno the car this week ... it's impossible to tell with the butt dyno ... car feels significantly faster than my pump gas tune which made about 510 whp / 570 wtq, but almost impossible to tell looking at BM3 logs. I would expect I am close to 600 whp.
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02-20-2022, 09:50 PM | #17 |
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I've got a 4" VRSF catless DP and stock M performance exhaust .... don't think back pressure is an issue.
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02-21-2022, 12:19 AM | #19 | |
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The problem is the "stock M performance exhaust", it is creating a bottleneck. Also are you running stock exhaust manifold? Last edited by Amazinjoey; 02-22-2022 at 03:17 AM.. |
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02-21-2022, 04:58 AM | #20 |
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Shouldn't be a debate really, it's a fact dropping timing too much will not produce more power.
I tune cars as a hobby and from my experiencing with B58 dropping timing below 8 degrees @6500 RPM will not add significant power if any.
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02-21-2022, 02:26 PM | #21 |
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I agree dropping timing too much will hurt performance but there is some balance of boost and timing advance that works best right? on pump gas i'm maxed out at 10.5 degrees @ 6500 ... on the E85 we get here in Calgary, Canada I'm maxed out at about 15 degrees.
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02-22-2022, 01:48 AM | #22 | |
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Correct, every setup is different and has it's own boost/timing balance where reducing timing under a certain degrees will not increase power.
In general with gasoline that point is around 8 degrees timing. Quote:
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