[Iyrix]

Originally Posted by RickLS7

So you're still saying a 440i is far faster than a 435d? A friend of mine has an M4 and even that isn't far faster than mine. The low down torque and the wide rev range for a diesel plus Xdrive make it a damn quick car.

No doubting your petrol sounds better but then I don't think the 440 sounds as good as the howl from the exhaust my Porsche makes.

In what part did i say that the tractor wasn't faster??

I really don't care tbh, i just know after 2 diesels in a row, i prefer petrol for the smoother and sportier experience.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Abzynthe

B58 vs N57 thread.
If we were all the same, it would be a boring place.

One of the wisest observations on another equally engaging topic. So far, xDrive vs RWD holds the record for conversational gravity factor, or ability to attract the most posts in the least amount of time.

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by g9icy

... and (controversial opinion time!) prefer my 435d in every way except sound!

I was a little bit dissapointed to be honest. I find that my 435d gives me such a great feeling of low down pull I missed it.

I'm sure the 440i would be just as much fun on the twisties, but certainly not worth swapping mine for one.

With regards to the sound of the 440i, that start up is lovely, but once it's being driven I couldn't really hear it.

I think my next (petrol based) upgrade needs to be something with more torque than what I'm used to.

So I'm using this revelation as justification to get an M next.

im waiting for the posts claiming you are me. 440i feelings are hurt...

Here come the 440i 8k mile PCP brigade to the charge..

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Xdrive is always faster.

That's quite a broad statement which isn't entirely true.

Yes on 2 equally powered cars (say a 330d xdrive vs 330d sDrive) its true that from either a standstill or in wet conditions the xdrive will be quicker, but from rolling at say 40/50mph on a bone dry summers day I wager the sDrive has the edge. It's been discussed before on here about the slight losses and extra weight of having xdrive vs the sDrive.

In the right dry conditions a stock 340i is slightly quicker than a stock 335d from rolling, but you have to rev it high to get that performance, where in the 335d you can simply drive it in comfort mode and the gearbox in D at low revs and it still pulls instantly like a train, so I can see how the OP could be underwhelmed in a short test drive if he didn't drive the 340i the way it should be driven.

[NotGotABimmer23]

Xdrive will always be faster when the Sdrive is limited by traction. When it's not, the Xdrive will always be slower as its heavier with greater drive train losses.

[Skyhigh]

Correct!
Except that when talking 300+ PS on a car under 2 tones, Sdrive is always challenged to put that power on the road, dry or wet!
Which is why generally speaking, Xdrive is always faster on performance cars (on most you don't even get a choice... look at S5/RS5 and many others)
Ideally you would want it switchable as on the M models. But presented a choice between the two, there is only one choice (money aside) if you are looking for real performance.

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by Hooded

...but you have to rev it high to get that performance, where in the 335d you can simply drive it in comfort mode and the gearbox in D at low revs and it still pulls instantly like a train...

There is some truth in the above if talking manual transmission and „out of the blue" situations while cruising. With a fantastic automatic gearbox as in the F3x, it only takes millisecond to be where you want to be on either engine. 500NM are plenty!

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

There is some truth in the above if talking manual transmission and „out of the blue" situations while cruising. With a fantastic automatic gearbox as in the F3x, it only takes millisecond to be where you want to be on either engine. 500NM are plenty!

A stock 440i has 450nm of torque and the OP's 435d has 630nm so it's not going to feel so torquey low down, which is most likely why he wasn't overwhelmed by a quick test drive.

[Skyhigh]

It only takes the brillant MPPSK to take it to 500NM (a non-existing option for 35d).
But even with 450NM, it doesn't take many revs or many downshifts to get sufficient power out in any day-to-day situation. Combine with Xdrive and you will never see a rear license plate of a 35d for too long.

As discussed already, the disappointment of the OP is perfectly natural in the first hours (or even days) of a transition from diesel to petrol. As soon as you adjust your driving style and stop judging performance purely on momentary g-forces, you'd never even be interested to know the torque values.

[Bigyin1314]

Or maybe, and I’m just spit balling here, the Op just simply liked the drive of his 435d better? The whole he should have driven for longer, used more revs etc etc is all valid but it’s plausible that he just preferred the d variant (which is well within his right)

[Skyhigh]

Certainly.
Except he would not know for sure what he likes better until he experiences both properly (which ain't done in an hour).

[Wills2]

A diesels performance is effective but it never feels exciting in my experience.

I think it's something to do with the way its delivered, a huge surge.....then? Nothing. It doesn't build up to anything and is always tailing away as the revs rise and the torque drops.

Very good at point and squirt stuff but that's effective rather than exciting.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

I've owned both, 300 bhp plus diesel and a 440i.

Was underwhelmed by the test drive when I first looked at a 40i, but love the ownership and driving experience of it.

And, it might not be quite as instant as the diesel, but if you have the throttle in Sport and the gearbox in Sport and you stamp on the accelerator, it is very close to instant that the lower gear is selected, the revs climb and you shoot off towards the next corner. You certainly don't sit there waiting for all that to happen.

In the dry, and once you're moving, the S drive manages just fine. All I know, is that the Quattro diesel I had could be driven at any angle and from any speed quickly. But it didn't feel faster than the 440 in the right conditions, and it didn't feel more fun in any. (Apart from launch control, that my kids miss).

[Bigyin1314]

I agree that the 435d isn't overly exciting, it's a very effective road car. The 440i (and lets be very clear here, a fantastic car) as nice as it was just isn't as effective all year round.

The argument of sport mode etc is valid, but it's valid for both cars.

My previous car (mapped Audi s4 which would have decimated either car) was again a fantastic road car, instant throttle (supercharged) but still not what I would call exciting, and neither if I'm honest is the 440i.

Opinions will always vary (as they should) and I not trying to say that one is better than the other, but all this talk about excitement etc just doesn't ring true with either of these cars. These cars are generic road cars with a bit more poke than the majority of cars out there and that's pretty much it.

I recent had the opportunity to drive a lotus exige, now THAT was exciting and emotive, yet completely impractical. Op likes his diesel, I like mine my mate likes his 440i, we both appreciate each other's car for their strengths and weaknesses that's where it ends. Too many people try to put one variant down over the other and I don't see the need.

My 2p's worth! - I'll get my coat now 😛

[Soul_Glo]

I like it but I wouldn't buy one. The 435d X is more of a point and shoot tool. I regret selling mine so I bought another one. For some I know a natural progression from a 435d has been to an M4. The 435d does it for me. It has economy and above all it can haul... I have said it before and will say it again... if you had a 440i full of passengers and luggage... you had a 435d full of the same passengers and luggage... then the 435d would not only cope better but also be economically feasible.

Anyhow for me... transporting buddies in wheelchairs with their kit and stuff... it's easier to do in my diesel workhorse. I haven't had to map it and the torque is what I enjoy. I don't see it as a poor mans M4... it is a diesel but it's still enjoyable.

Power delivery is different on both.
Petrol vs Diesel. Sometimes like apples and oranges.

Both cars have their pros and cons. Different strokes for different folks.

[Skyhigh]

None of the above is valid for an automatic gearbox - both engines will give you the required power, through required rpms in milliseconds. Irrespective of the load.
The difference is that the power distribution and sound delivered by the petrol are much more enjoyable when driving sporty.
The price tag is the fuel consumption. But no good comes for free anyway. All worth it for me.

[Soul_Glo]

By that logic we may as well say there is no difference between a 320d and a 320i because of the gearbox. The extra torque counts for nothing. Then why do we have diesels?! Clearly not for their ability to handle load in your view.

[Skyhigh]

The extra torque counts only from the line.
Physics - work is done by power. Torque is only a contributing factor to power, same as rpms.

Accelerating certain weight within certain time is just work and depends on power, not torque in isolation.

The biggest advantage of diesels in cars is not the torque, but the lower fuel consumption.
The torque is mainly important to heavy Transporters having the task to set high loads in motion.

As spectacular as a launch with a diesel (or electric vehicle for that matter) is, that is not what excites me or brings me a "sheer driving pleasure"

But people are different and there is nothing wrong with that. To know whether you prefer the one or the other however, you need to experience the advantages and disadvantages of both. Driving a few minutes or hours is not going to do that for you on either.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Plenty on here seem to have gone from 3 litre diesels to 3 litre petrols. Not many gone the other way in recent times. Says a lot to me. I've had both, can be perfectly objective, I prefer the petrol.

[Skyhigh]

Very true! Dito.

And there are plenty + 1 reasons

Just pity x40i is not offered with Xdrive in UK. Why!?

[TodmordenLad]

Unsurprisingly, this thread has developed into an F series d vs i debate.

As someone who's owned both (330d sDrive with MPPK and 440i with MPPSK), here's my 2p worth. They're both great cars to own and drive. They're both fast. Neither one is "better" than the other

The way things are going with diesel in this country, however, I'm glad to be using the green pump these days. That's until the govt. starts a war on petrol... which they inevitably will at some point.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Very true! Dito.

And there are plenty + 1 reasons

Just pity x40i is not offered with Xdrive in UK. Why!?

Something to do with it being impossible/difficult/too much trouble to engineer x-drive into the right hand drive with the 40i.