F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Navigation, iDrive, Audio, Video, Bluetooth, Phone, Cameras, Electronics > Underseat subs
Extreme Powerhouse
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-22-2019, 03:39 AM   #23
Encanto
Colonel
Encanto's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (1)

Coding works only if whatever you connect to it accepts balanced inputs. Otherwise, you need to convert those signals to unbalanced first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 430MAGIC View Post
Hmmm, this means I could recode my base HU to HiFi or H/K to remove the EQ and get a flat signal.

This would eliminate the need to retune via an expensive DSP (Audison Bit ten) - albeit without other benefits like time alignment etc.

I'm thinking a flat input signal to the amp would make for more accurate sound reproduction. The crossovers for the front Focal tweeters are set to reduce the output (without DSP fitted) otherwise the EQ would be too much (something along them lines).

Most importantly, coding is a lot cheaper!
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 04:13 AM   #24
430MAGIC
New Member
4
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 430d GC
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
Coding works only if whatever you connect to it accepts balanced inputs. Otherwise, you need to convert those signals to unbalanced first.
I'm assuming the "Balanced Differential Inputs" on the JL XD amp should be sufficient if wired correctly?
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 04:21 AM   #25
Encanto
Colonel
Encanto's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 430MAGIC View Post
I'm assuming the "Balanced Differential Inputs" on the JL XD amp should be sufficient if wired correctly?
Correct.

Output to the rear speakers will be low level if powered by iDrive unit if coded to HiFi.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 07:23 AM   #26
Billfitz
Lieutenant General
Billfitz's Avatar
United_States
8170
Rep
15,966
Posts

Drives: '15 328iX GT
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 430MAGIC View Post
Hmmm, this means I could recode my base HU to HiFi or H/K to remove the EQ and get a flat signal.
Maybe. As I now understand it the HU is the same for the upper level audio options, only the amps are different. Since the DSP is in the amps, not the HU, that's logical. The base HU is totally different, as the amp and HU are in the same unit. Whether or not the signal processing in the base HU can be coded is a question unto itself.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 09:52 AM   #27
Kevin @ Integral Audio
Private First Class
Kevin @ Integral Audio's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
178
Posts

Drives: G01 X3 M40i | Z3 2.8 | F30 328
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
T/S specs and speaker modeling software are accurate within the realm of pure pistonic response. That generally translates to two octaves above the driver Fs, and all the range below Fs. In the case of a midbass with a typical Fs of 100Hz that's up to 400Hz. Above that you have to use measured response on an EIA standard baffle as shown on the driver data sheets. Where auto sound midbasses are concerned that's a problem, as practically none have driver data sheets. With a sub with an Fs of 40Hz the simulations are fully accurate up to at least 160Hz, which for all intents and purposes is the entire sub pass band.
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying "around resonance".

Quote:
As my colleague Floyd Toole is fond of saying he has never had a speaker measure good that didn't sound good, and never heard a speaker that sounded good that didn't measure good.
Really, you worked with Floyd Toole? Where/When? One of our guys here worked with him at Harman. Seems somewhat of a surprising thing for him to be "fond of saying", will have to ask about that.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 10:02 AM   #28
Kevin @ Integral Audio
Private First Class
Kevin @ Integral Audio's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
178
Posts

Drives: G01 X3 M40i | Z3 2.8 | F30 328
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 430MAGIC View Post
Hmmm, this means I could recode my base HU to HiFi or H/K to remove the EQ and get a flat signal.
Yes. Just remember if you are attempting to re-use any of the factory wiring that the underseat woofers and the front mids are paralleled. The connection happens at the 4P plug for the underseat woofer, you can separate them them there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
Correct.

Output to the rear speakers will be low level if powered by iDrive unit if coded to HiFi.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Maybe. As I now understand it the HU is the same for the upper level audio options, only the amps are different. Since the DSP is in the amps, not the HU, that's logical. The base HU is totally different, as the amp and HU are in the same unit. Whether or not the signal processing in the base HU can be coded is a question unto itself.
The HU is the same in all vehicles, including the 6-speaker base audio. The differences are all coding and wiring.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 12:12 PM   #29
Billfitz
Lieutenant General
Billfitz's Avatar
United_States
8170
Rep
15,966
Posts

Drives: '15 328iX GT
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Integral Audio View Post
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying "around resonance".
Really? A two octave range is 'around resonance? Whatever. If it defines the entire pass band of a subwoofer that's all that matters.
I've never worked with Floyd, we have crossed paths at AES conventions.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2019, 05:27 PM   #30
430MAGIC
New Member
4
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 430d GC
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Integral Audio View Post
Yes. Just remember if you are attempting to re-use any of the factory wiring that the underseat woofers and the front mids are paralleled.
I'm getting new speaker cables run. I will have to find out on Monday how the Focals and under seat woofers will be configured.

The coding possibility was news to me. Whatever happens, it will have to be a later addition, likely when I install the SWS 8xi.
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2023, 05:24 AM   #31
SoundHound75
New Member
3
Rep
15
Posts

Drives: BMW 535i
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Netherland

iTrader: (0)

I recently installed the SWS 8 in my G31, but I used the ESX QM500.4 amplifier. The sound appears less clear and more bass-heavy compared to before. It feels like there's an entire section of the frequency spectrum missing.
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2023, 08:54 AM   #32
Billfitz
Lieutenant General
Billfitz's Avatar
United_States
8170
Rep
15,966
Posts

Drives: '15 328iX GT
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

Duplicate posts are poor etiquette.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2024, 09:46 PM   #33
jjjccc
Private
United_States
3
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: bmw f30 335i sedan
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: ms

iTrader: (0)

theres no way the earthquakes will hold up with an aftermarket amp(of quality) like a jl or alpine or jbl or pioneer).the other ones need this because theyre better quality. no matter what theyre specs say(and THEY say alot/marketing men). i have heard many quality differences after reading specs n tests of many woofers. if u cant hear it then u dont need to upgrade anything audio wise in ur car or home.and what bmw calls hifi isnt hifi at all jus to be clear on that one.there is no hu that gets close to hifi except an alpine cd player.maybe a pioneer. the reason the earthquakes sound best with fact amp is because theyre cheap and u cant over power them with that amp. use the same amp, like a jl, do the tests again w those 3 woofers.. but also have a human ear thru all the test blindfolded. real world and paper are 2 diff things always.i promise u then u will KNOW FOR SURE which one sounds better, because its made better.paper cannot show u this/make u hear this no matter how many calculations they made.a high end dac is what u need to get hifi quality w digital(cd and up on into all this crap playin crap digital files/compressed).if u dont care about quality then turn it up and rattle,smear,smudge out the sound to ur liking, this all seems subjective but its really not. loud doesnt equal good.digital reaches low lows and high highs, but that doesnt mean a thing! listen to crap stuff at high volume 5 minutes, ull see it literally makes ur body tired/fatigued. listen to quality stuff loud for 5 minutes, and u can keep listening without fatigue.
do the same test with same jl amp on each set of woofer. as u go up in volume go up until u HEAR one distort, and ull see which one falls first. i bet u 500 buks the earthquakes fall on their face first or maybe even blow!
the reason the others need an aftermarket amp is that the aftermarket is better and they can take it because better made, and need it to sound rt/to push them up to potential. plus, u jus dont buy ANYTHING that says earthquake. that should be a given,lol. thats like buyin a tv whos brand name is BIGCLEARTV.
jus cause a company lists specs/makes calculations, doesnt mean u wanna hear music at their most extreme spec. sum list more accurate real world listening specs so consumer is pleased when listening and doesnt feel lied to. some overrate their specs because thats where it will produce sound in general and is not clear on how much they can take and still sound pleasing.. and one reviewer may say these sound great. other one will give one star, but both do not say they using diff amps. always always if a speaker needs better amp to make them sound good its goin to be the better made speaker.its way it will always be, if we're talkin about "the better speaker", and graphs/specs/tests. and op seems to wan use a jl amp.
no matter what, with all the best speakers put in car in the world, the factory amp will never EVER get u anything close to hifi.

Last edited by jjjccc; 03-10-2024 at 05:39 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST