[///CSL]

Is this internals build needed for regular stage 1 and bellow 290hp tune?

What are basic hardware modifications for n20 to be long term reliable on track. I know in theory that stage 1 doesn't require such mods, but there where some engine failures even with stock parts. There where problems with plastic chargepipe, oil starvation and similiar stuff.

What would be approximate price of engine rebuild in independent shop and why do some people have to replace whole engine instead of rebuild? What is price of used n20 engine?

I'm talking about daily driver with 5-10 track days /year, but heavy tracking in those stints

[smallba]

Originally Posted by ///CSL

Is this internals build needed for regular stage 1 and bellow 290hp tune?

What would be approximate price of engine rebuild in independent shop and why do some people have to replace whole engine instead of rebuild? What is price of used n20 engine?

Stage 1 you'll be ok without internals upgrades (BEF or Piggyback)

n20 are suppose to be a PITA to rebuild.

Check out this thread has some info good info on the engine cost and rebuild: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1328727

[///CSL]

I'm talking about fairly conservative tune, something like 280-290hp and not more than 400nm (295lb/ft), but even if amount of track days is bellow 10, I still think that they are pretty hard for engine.

This rebuild cost is extremely high, used engines on ebay/car-part.com are around 4k cheapest and to insert them in car is probably not more than 2k.

In case of failure, can some parts be used from old engine, or it is completely worthless?

Sorry for bad English

[smallba]

Originally Posted by ///CSL

I'm talking about fairly conservative tune, something like 280-290hp and not more than 400nm (295lb/ft), but even if amount of track days is bellow 10, I still think that they are pretty hard for engine.

This rebuild cost is extremely high, used engines on ebay/car-part.com are around 4k cheapest and to insert them in car is probably not more than 2k.

In case of failure, can some parts be used from old engine, or it is completely worthless?

Sorry for bad English

wmandra has z4 28i that he uses on the track, Check out his thread here: http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=950367

In case of failure, know one would know until the failure occurs. Depends on the internal damage.

[///CSL]

Thank you smallba will check it out

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by Stubok

@bradsm87 this is a question for Ricardo@ACFPerformance as he has tuned many n20's and would be more likely to know their limit. I'm pretty sure the Brazilian one reported (380 wheel HP) with Pure Stage 2, was on stock internals.

Also you can read up all the GSR threads. They were tuning with a flash. Not over OBD, but bench flashing. They made a lot of torque (at well over 26PSI) and their engine ultimately failed because of a stretched rod bolt which ended up with a thrown rod. They also reported oil pressure issues, which no doubt contributed.

Now I'm not sure how much top end HP GSR made, but I expect it wasn't spectacular given the flow limits of the stock turbo.

I'm sure if you change the rod bearings for some upgraded, coated Clevite ones and rod bolts for Carr or ARP on top of the larger Turbo you could push the stock internals way further. The Pistons may still have issues (quite a few cracked Pistons reported on line, though my suspicion is it's because of excess heat and incorrect ring gaps).

Also I'm sure once you do the above and push it there will be some new discoveries made.

On the large Turbo side, I don't know if you can machine the TD04 housings any more than HL Turbine with 19t compressor. I guess you could cut the Turbine housing off the manifold and weld on a flange for TD05 or larger Garret Ball bearing unit (which is what I was thinking of doing if I get limited by the Stage 2 one I'm now running).

Fueling wise, I was told the HPFP on n20 has plenty of capacity and is good for 400HP, but the injectors aren't (not sure of their limit), so either PI, or TBI will be needed to supplement fueling if you want to keep going. That's why I installed the Fuel-It Stage 2 LPFP for future capacity, and full e85 use

So the 6758 .80 EFR t4 needs to be custom fitted on our manifold?

[Gen13 F36]

Building an engine is not the problem...it is the cost to performance ratio is. If anyone willing to spend money it can be done. My old day with an S14 with fully built SR20DET ( ahem cost me $7k) netted me 541hp on race gas and 451 on 91 california water.

It can be done but how much🤔

[Nomadic Tuned]

Hey all. For those interested, check out 3 Aussie lads doing N20 engine rebuilds. Stay tuned for more progress updates and videos.

navardi Andypants Nomadic Tuned

This is a part 1 Video of Ken's BMW N20 328i Build Part 1.
2014 N20 with 95000KMs

Engine Build by Brintech Customs
Parts supplies by Flashtuned

Custom tune to be done in collaboration with Brintech Customs and Nomadic Tuned.


Current mods:
Bm3 OTS stage tune for 98Ron
xhp stage 3 for 8hp-zf automatic transmission
Afe 400cpsi highflow downpipe
Upgraded vrsf intercooler
MST Cold air intake
GFB DV+
Stock OEM turbo running 22.5 PSI boost

Parts to be installed:
Mosselman stage 1 turbo with new upgraded oil line feed
Forged pistons, Rods and Bolts (CPCarrillo, Maxpeedingrods and ARP)
upgraded main and rod bearings
All new OEM seals and gaskets for preventative maintenance
new upgraded timing chain and assembly
Catch Can
upgraded charge pipes

Block work to be done:
Cylinders to be bored, sleeved and honed
Semi closed deck design with Dowel inserts
Upgraded cut ring Gasket
Upgraded Head Studs

Project Goals:
Sleeper 328i to be used for Daily driver so reliability is key. Could have upgraded to an M3 but wanted a project to take the N20 a little further. There is not much information on the N20 and want to be able to share what these N20's are capable of. Will covert into a track car down the line but would then to to look into fabricating a new Baffled oil pan to prevent oil starvation.

Targeting an extra 2 PSI of Boost to take it to 24.5 PSI. Should be looking a some really good gains once built and a custom tune applied.

Budget:
A little bit of background in regards to the build and choices on parts. This particular project is not meant to be a budget project but neither is it supposed to be an expensive one. What we've tried to do is through research on parts look at the benefits of putting together a solid reliable build within a particular budget. We could have got all the same parts from the same manufacturers at the top end but did not make sense for what we wanted to achieve. We put this together to appeal to a particular price point and open up possibilities.

Stayed tuned 😎

[RayRay786]

this video show Maxpeedingrods conrods. THee are crazy chepa compared to the CP Rods.

Wonder how the quality is on them....

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Nomadic Tuned

Hey all. For those interested, check out 3 Aussie lads doing N20 engine rebuilds. Stay tuned for more progress updates and videos.

navardi Andypants Nomadic Tuned

Sub'd to the channel, excited to see where this build goes!

[Nomadic Tuned]

Originally Posted by RayRay786

this video show Maxpeedingrods conrods. THee are crazy chepa compared to the CP Rods.

Wonder how the quality is on them....

A little bit of background in regards to the build and choices on parts. This particular project is not meant to be a budget project but neither is it supposed to be an expensive one. What we've tried to do is through research on parts look at the benefits of putting together a solid reliable build within a particular budget. We could have got all the same parts from the same manufacturers at the top end but did not make sense for what we wanted to achieve. We put this together to appeal to a particular price point and open up possibilities.

[Nomadic Tuned]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Sub'd to the channel, excited to see where this build goes!

Looking forward to the end result 😎

[navardi]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Sub'd to the channel, excited to see where this build goes!

Cheers boss

[AtomChan]

Subd to the channel. Looking forward to seeing the results. I have an N26 rebuild on my plate in the near future so I look forward to seeing more info on the process others take.

[navardi]

Originally Posted by AtomChan

Subd to the channel. Looking forward to seeing the results. I have an N26 rebuild on my plate in the near future so I look forward to seeing more info on the process others take.

If you haven't already check out my guide, it helped Nomadic Tuned and Andypants start their builds 🤙

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6#post24135816

[Nomadic Tuned]

Part 2 in the series of videos of my N20 build

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Nomadic Tuned

Part 2 in the series of videos of my N20 build

Thanks for posting, nice to see it coming along.

Can't wait to see it all come together!

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Nomadic Tuned

Part 2 in the series of videos of my N20 build

Question for you just popped into my head. With all that engine work, I'd imagine that the Mossleman turbo becomes a weak point right? In that the engine will be able to hold a lot more power than what that turbo can produce. Any reason you didn't go for a stage 2 or bigger turbo?

[Nomadic Tuned]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Question for you just popped into my head. With all that engine work, I'd imagine that the Mossleman turbo becomes a weak point right? In that the engine will be able to hold a lot more power than what that turbo can produce. Any reason you didn't go for a stage 2 or bigger turbo?

Hey Mate, great question. Within the video description, I've listed the reason for the build and parts chosen overall. There are 3 of us in Australia working to create 3 somewhat different builds each at very different price points.

It's allowing us to open up a number of build possiblities for the N20 platform.

I will be looking at the next stage of this build when I decide to track the car. That will come with an upgrade to the turbine wheel, lpfp and custom oil pan to name a few key upgrades.

Btw the mosselman msl 35-45 stage 1 turbo has a compressor wheel size slightly larger than MHI and Dinan stage 1 turbos so will flow slightly more air

For now as a daily on 93oct (98ron in Australia) this should be a fun sleeper targeting 380-400whp.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Nomadic Tuned

Hey Mate, great question. Within the video description, I've listed the reason for the build and parts chosen overall. There are 3 of us in Australia working to create 3 somewhat different builds each at very different price points.

It's allowing us to open up a number of build possiblities for the N20 platform.

I will be looking at the next stage of this build when I decide to track the car. That will come with an upgrade to the turbine wheel, lpfp and custom oil pan to name a few key upgrades.

Btw the mosselman msl 35-45 stage 1 turbo has a compressor wheel size slightly larger than MHI and Dinan stage 1 turbos so will flow slightly more air

For now as a daily on 93oct (98ron in Australia) this should be a fun sleeper targeting 380-400whp.

Gothca, makes sense. Love that all you guys are doing different stuff to give us options. Know that you're helping me out A LOT. I'm going to being going down this route in due time and this has already been crazy helpful.

Another question while you're here if you don't mind. Do you have any concerns about the other driveline components like the diff, transmission, axles etc.? I wouldn't personally be too worried about the transmission, especially the 8AT, but what do you know about what these stock diffs can take?

[BettyFkinCrocker]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Gothca, makes sense. Love that all you guys are doing different stuff to give us options. Know that you're helping me out A LOT. I'm going to being going down this route in due time and this has already been crazy helpful.

Another question while you're here if you don't mind. Do you have any concerns about the other driveline components like the diff, transmission, axles etc.? I wouldn't personally be too worried about the transmission, especially the 8AT, but what do you know about what these stock diffs can take?

Our trans is in a plethora of different platforms with much higher hp demands.

Just look at the B58, folks are pushing 600+ whp/wtq with no trans issues. Driveshafts have been failing before anything with the trans fails.

I think I've seen one diff explode on one of those 600+ cars. But considering the amount of B58s in the 450-500+ range I've not seen any other diff failures and no trans failures. Just a bunch of driveshafts.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker

Our trans is in a plethora of different platforms with much higher hp demands.

Just look at the B58, folks are pushing 600+ whp/wtq with no trans issues. Driveshafts have been failing before anything with the trans fails.

I think I've seen one diff explode on one of those 600+ cars. But considering the amount of B58s in the 450-500+ range I've not seen any other diff failures and no trans failures. Just a bunch of driveshafts.

Yah but there's lots of flavors of the ZF 8HP. IIRC we have the 8HP45, and if that's the exact same unit as in the B58 cars, then you're definitely right, and we're fine on that front. Good to know that the diffs hold up ok, if we have the same diff as the 6 cyl cars that is.