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      07-19-2018, 01:11 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishowerinjager View Post
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1313152

368/370 for mppsk is pretty damn close. Since we have no values stated from this company on whether the tune is producing these number at the wheels or crank I think it a pretty big assumption that you're making.

Until some before and after dynos are posted we don't know anything.
Remember, dyno number means nothing. It all comes down to Delta, or change between pre tune and post tune. A car that puts down 360whp on dynoject can put down only 320whp on mustang and so on. So what you need to do is look for (the change in power) x (factor of difference in dyno numbers).

But as said before, MPPSK will have a power boost as well after a reflash.
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      07-19-2018, 01:42 PM   #90
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Gotta give Mission Performance a thumbs-up for hanging in (and answering) all these questions so far
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      07-19-2018, 01:48 PM   #91
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Thanks for the answers!

Target 17 psi with the jb4 now on 102 ron, car is fast but inconsistent, hope a flash Will be as fast (or faster) but atleast be more consistent
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      07-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by RTPenland View Post
Gotta give Mission Performance a thumbs-up for hanging in (and answering) all these questions so far
Completely agree!! They have been top notch!
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      07-19-2018, 01:57 PM   #93
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Is the throttle closure problems non-existent so far with flash?
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      07-19-2018, 02:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aset View Post
Is the throttle closure problems non-existent so far with flash?
This is what I want to know and if it’s safe to run some E85 with leaning the AFR or maxing the crap out of the fuel system.
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      07-19-2018, 02:33 PM   #95
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The fuel pump is still a limiting factor, we need upgraded hardware. The beauty of the flash though is now the car can actually be tuned for this and we can see the full potential of this engine.
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      07-19-2018, 04:58 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
The fuel pump is still a limiting factor, we need upgraded hardware. The beauty of the flash though is now the car can actually be tuned for this and we can see the full potential of this engine.
The fuel pump is still a limiting factor but the fuel cut off happens at a lower WHP than does the fuel pump. When mission performance answered my question, not wanting to put words in his mouth but he alluded to with a stage 2 turbo fuel pump would probably definitely be an issue where as with stage 1 turbo I might be fine, I'd love to get new injectors either way but at least the tune gives us more room to mod until reaching new fuel pump levels. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I'm getting out of this.
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      07-19-2018, 07:18 PM   #97
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      07-19-2018, 11:03 PM   #98
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Dyno numbers from another B58 tuner and an explanation of the fueling limits.

https://www.performance-centre.co.uk...g-by-custompro

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      07-20-2018, 12:03 AM   #99
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Fueling cap was for sure an issue with N55 and B58 a while ago. Now, after a lot of street tuning, we were able to run 5 gallons of e85 with our stage 1 flash on an otherwise fully stock B58 and fuel pressures stayed within range entire time, even though the engine was heat soaked after just few pulls. Big issues with the B58 right now that remain are: a) transmission torque intervention b) charge air cooling.

I'll post a lib lot datalog collected today, and even at full boost to redline, you can see that fuel pressure stayed exactly where it needs to be.
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      07-20-2018, 12:56 AM   #100
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Gimme some goddamn speed, guy
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      07-20-2018, 01:06 AM   #101
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That other UK tuning company dyno shows 423whp and 460wtq! That’s huge gains! Very excited to see what you guys post!
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      07-20-2018, 02:56 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StockLOL View Post
That other UK tuning company dyno shows 423whp and 460wtq! Thats huge gains! Very excited to see what you guys post!
Not quite, UK dyno operators calculate back to flywheel bhp instead of using whp.

Not sure what this is in US whp.
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      07-20-2018, 07:42 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalkster View Post
Stock exhaust has high flow. There is a difference between a sound deadening muffler and restriction. MPPSK is definitely not 380whp. Which this tune should easily hit. Stock turbo is good for ~470whp, so the question here is how powerful are our fuel pumps?
It isn't 380 whp, but I always assume advertised tune numbers are 'bhp' unless it's specified they're whp, because higher numbers sound more impressive, so of course tuners use estimated 'bhp' instead of measured 'whp'. The website doesn't specify either way.

As others have noted, though, some cars are making 370 whp on MPPSK, so a bump to 380 WHP is not really worth $1000 in my mind. :/ On the other hand, if it bumps from, say, 370 to 400 or 410, that plus the cold start delete could make this worth it in my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
That is pretty much correct. First step, we make a backup of your existing software configuration. After that is done, we will build a tune for you based on your software level. That means, if you had MPPSK, then you will get our tune built using MPPSK foundation. If you had a base B58 software, then our tune will be built on that.

Correct. The flash is based on your current configuration, MPPSK or Base. Then the firmware is modified for even higher gains.

Think about a tune as a "power boost" over what you currently have. So if you have MPPSK, then you still will have the added benefits of MPPSK, but with higher power figures.

Yes, there are gains over MPPSK. Please see above responses.
We will have dynos posted for both MPPSK and Base B58, though MPPSK will not have high flow exhaust. Then we will apply our tunes to both versions to show the power gains on both.
I look forward to those dynos.

But for clarification: MPPSK isn't any higher-flow than stock catback? I would expect that at least in sport mode, removing the muffler restriction entirely would be an improvement (since sport mode fully opens valves that bypass the muffler entirely... and I believe the ECU opens those valves at high RPM in comfort as well). I did think that the catback piping was larger in MPPSK as well, but I can't recall where I read that.

A couple more follow ups as well:
#1: How is cold start delete implemented? Just a removal of the 100% wastegate opening, or is it more than that? Honestly, that feature is half of what draws me to this, cold start makes this car sound like ass with MPPSK.
#2: Regarding 'burble mode', how does that interact with the MPPSK base tune? MPPSK has TONS of burbles by default. If I opt not to get 'burble mode', do I end up with MPPSK level burbles, or closer to stock? If I opt for 'burble mode', how does that change compared to MPPSK? (Some audio clips/youtube videos would be handy, I suppose). I would honestly like less burbles than current MPPSK, something closer to the MPPSK tune of a year+ ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
Remember, dyno number means nothing. It all comes down to Delta, or change between pre tune and post tune. A car that puts down 360whp on dynoject can put down only 320whp on mustang and so on. So what you need to do is look for (the change in power) x (factor of difference in dyno numbers).
Yep, and even between two dynos of the same brand, different shops apply different correction factors beyond SAE, so in the end, you want to see before and after on the same dyno if possible.

Last edited by Araemo; 07-20-2018 at 07:51 AM.
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      07-20-2018, 08:29 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
...#1: How is cold start delete implemented? Just a removal of the 100% wastegate opening, or is it more than that? Honestly, that feature is half of what draws me to this, cold start makes this car sound like ass with MPPSK...
You should hear it with the valves permanently open. I'm sure my next door neighbours love me!
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      07-20-2018, 08:31 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzynthe View Post
You should hear it with the valves permanently open. I'm sure my next door neighbours love me!
Try full AWE exhaust + midpipe + cattless downpipe in a garage I think this thread will help many neighbors across the world
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      07-20-2018, 08:43 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahlow View Post
The fuel pump is still a limiting factor but the fuel cut off happens at a lower WHP than does the fuel pump. When mission performance answered my question, not wanting to put words in his mouth but he alluded to with a stage 2 turbo fuel pump would probably definitely be an issue where as with stage 1 turbo I might be fine, I'd love to get new injectors either way but at least the tune gives us more room to mod until reaching new fuel pump levels. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I'm getting out of this.
If you're out of fuel pump then bigger injectors will make it worse. Whatever is upstream has to outflow what's downstream before downstream items can be upgraded. so LPFP has to ouflow HPFP before a new HPFP is worthwhile, and the HPFP has to outflow injectors before new injectors are worthwhile.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      07-20-2018, 09:01 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
Big issues with the B58 right now that remain are: a) transmission torque intervention b) charge air cooling.
So the transmission will still delay shifts until TCU coding is dialed in, correct?
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      07-20-2018, 09:44 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
Big issues with the B58 right now that remain are: a) transmission torque intervention

I imagine this is not problematic for 6MT?
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      07-20-2018, 09:59 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTZ1010 View Post
I imagine this is not problematic for 6MT?
Actually, technically, B58 with 6MT is limited to even lower torque than the auto... though I'm unsure if that is per-gear? All I know is that it is rated at a lower torque # than the automatic transmission B58 in the same chassis.
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      07-20-2018, 10:25 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
#2: Regarding 'burble mode', how does that interact with the MPPSK base tune? MPPSK has TONS of burbles by default. If I opt not to get 'burble mode', do I end up with MPPSK level burbles, or closer to stock? If I opt for 'burble mode', how does that change compared to MPPSK? (Some audio clips/youtube videos would be handy, I suppose). I would honestly like less burbles than current MPPSK, something closer to the MPPSK tune of a year+ ago.
this. even a non MPPSK car has plenty of burbles.
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