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      01-22-2018, 03:50 PM   #1
GA/\/\/\/\A_CT
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Why does 340xi 6spd get weaker MPPSK?

Hi,

I’m new to the forum and recently bought a 6spd 2016 340xi with track handling package. I’ve read that the MPPSK for a 6spd manual 340xi would only be about 25lbs of torque increase whereas the 8spd auto received 40+ from an otherwise identical kit.

Why does the 6spd get the watered down torque upgrade? Is it for reasons of Concern for clutch wear/failure? Is there a way to get the full strength MPPSK with a 6spd car?

Thoughts?
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      01-22-2018, 11:05 PM   #2
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The transmission must have a lower torque rating
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      01-23-2018, 03:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
The transmission must have a lower torque rating
I guess, but I’d really like to know if it’s the transmission or the clutch that is the weak link.
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      01-23-2018, 06:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT View Post
I guess, but I’d really like to know if it’s the transmission or the clutch that is the weak link.
Pretty sure its just the fact that you will be more inclined to wear the clutch faster with extra torque, and since its a fully warrantied package, they water it down a bit.
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      01-23-2018, 11:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
The transmission must have a lower torque rating
I guess, but I’d really like to know if it’s the transmission or the clutch that is the weak link.
Likely not a weak link but more a decision that will for sure not sacrifice the longevity of the clutch.
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      01-23-2018, 11:21 AM   #6
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like above, its probably for transmission/clutch longevity and reliability, if it makes you feel any better it was the same on the MPPK for the 335, less torque in the manual
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      01-24-2018, 02:24 PM   #7
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Is there any way to get the full strength MPPSK with a manual? I’d sign a waiver on my clutch to get it.
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      01-24-2018, 02:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT View Post
Is there any way to get the full strength MPPSK with a manual? I’d sign a waiver on my clutch to get it.
Get a JB4 tune. Or you might be able to convince someone to upload the 8AT firmware to your car and still be covered by warranty though clutch is wear and tear item, so you would just be replacing it more often unless you chose not to go all out very often and took it easy except for the occasional drag race against an MT firmware car.

Last edited by bimmer456; 01-24-2018 at 04:37 PM..
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      01-25-2018, 10:11 AM   #9
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While I see how clutch longevity could be a reason, I don't think it'd be a big factor. I personally think it's to mitigate damage from human error (a bad/mistimed shift) which can potentially cause a ton of instantaneous stress on the transmission (i.e. applying too much breakaway torque)...

C'mon, we've all done it at least once before
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      01-25-2018, 11:09 AM   #10
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Drifter, that could be...but then how do we explain the M3/m4 or m2 manuals not having less power than their DCT counterparts?
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      01-25-2018, 11:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT View Post
Drifter, that could be...but then how do we explain the M3/m4 or m2 manuals not having less power than their DCT counterparts?
Are they the same manuals in the M and the 340?
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      01-25-2018, 10:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
Are they the same manuals in the M and the 340?
My understanding (could be wrong!) is that we have the same clutch/transmission since the E9x BMW's. The 550i/335is clutches are an OEM upgrade. More than likely, the M's have an upgraded or different clutch/tranny than we do.
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      01-25-2018, 11:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
More than likely, the M's have an upgraded or different clutch/tranny than we do.
This
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      01-26-2018, 01:12 PM   #14
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Frankly, these are all just guesses. I've also heard the opposite in other applications, the assumption being that the auto needs more power to compensate for additional weight and driveline losses.

The answer is: we don't know.
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      01-27-2018, 10:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT View Post
Drifter, that could be...but then how do we explain the M3/m4 or m2 manuals not having less power than their DCT counterparts?
The manual transmissions are designed to be able to handle the power those cars put out. M cars are more expensive for a reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Frankly, these are all just guesses. I've also heard the opposite in other applications, the assumption being that the auto needs more power to compensate for additional weight and driveline losses.

The answer is: we don't know.
This.

All we can do is speculate.
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      01-28-2018, 01:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Get a JB4 tune. Or you might be able to convince someone to upload the 8AT firmware to your car and still be covered by warranty though clutch is wear and tear item, so you would just be replacing it more often unless you chose not to go all out very often and took it easy except for the occasional drag race against an MT firmware car.
Can't upload firmware for an AT on a manual. Complete different transmissions. How'd you expect that to work.
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      09-20-2018, 06:31 AM   #17
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Bump

The most reasonable speculation I’ve heard lately is that the 340 manual tranny is not rated to handle as much power as the 8AT...thanks for skimping on the manual trannies BMW. Way to screw the purists!
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      09-20-2018, 11:18 AM   #18
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Get an aftermarket clutch and BMS tune.
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      09-20-2018, 12:42 PM   #19
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B58 manual box appears to be the same or evolution of the same GS6 45 that was in the E9x N55.

I know of several who have broken those gearboxes, lost synchros, lost gears with bigger turbos. I can't recall any failures on the GS6 53 on the older pre-2011 N54 cars and those cars often push more power. That is probably why BMW gimps the tune for the manual car.
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      09-20-2018, 03:03 PM   #20
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It used to be that manual boxes could handle more torque now it's the auto. Though it seems torque converters are better than DCT.
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      09-20-2018, 04:39 PM   #21
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Swap a 6MT from an M3 should be able to handle 355 HP B58.
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