[duckJAI]

10mm movement forward for caster is quite significant I'd think. This would also make your steering much more stiffer and it may affect your steering going back to center?

Lancelot, do you mind measuring the front of the wheel to the beginning of your wheel well to see how much movement it's done and I can compare on my stock F30? I'm in dire need of camber cause the V3s I'm putting on don't come with camber plates and it seems like there are no good options for them at the moment.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

10mm movement forward for caster is quite significant I'd think. This would also make your steering much more stiffer and it may affect your steering going back to center?

Yes - EPS has much more feel ie comfort mode feels more akin to sport mode and sport mode is tauter still - its an improvement IMHO. Added castor angle helps reduce the "dead zone" off centre - all good.

I assume you have read thru the threads on LCAs on here and 2 addicts

for example

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...highlight=arms

and

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079766

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

10mm movement forward for caster is quite significant I'd think. This would also make your steering much more stiffer and it may affect your steering going back to center?

Lancelot, do you mind measuring the front of the wheel to the beginning of your wheel well to see how much movement it's done and I can compare on my stock F30? I'm in dire need of camber cause the V3s I'm putting on don't come with camber plates and it seems like there are no good options for them at the moment.

Sure, will do.
In terms of stiffness, nothing to remark, the steering feels actually more responsive, and as Bee Pee puts it you have this feeling of a reduced dead zone which is really good, feels much better than stock.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

I'm in dire need of camber cause the V3s I'm putting on don't come with camber plates and it seems like there are no good options for them at the moment.

Duck,

you have 2 OEM options to add more front camber

M4 LCAs - which you know about on this thread



Item # 2 above from Realoem is camber correction swivel - adds -0.5deg each side.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...54#31216853650

M135i's come with these fitted as standard. In combo with LCAs I'm at -2 deg which is about as much as want to go with for a road car.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

10mm movement forward for caster is quite significant I'd think. This would also make your steering much more stiffer and it may affect your steering going back to center?

Lancelot, do you mind measuring the front of the wheel to the beginning of your wheel well to see how much movement it's done and I can compare on my stock F30? I'm in dire need of camber cause the V3s I'm putting on don't come with camber plates and it seems like there are no good options for them at the moment.

There's about an inch of space; this is with 19" wheels, 225/40 tyres.

[duckJAI]

Lancelot When I measured on stock 17" setup (but overall we all should be the same diameter) I measured about 1.5" which is about 10-12mm. The one thing I forgot about is that doing this mod, also pushes your wheels outward (like you're running a lower offset wheel). From my readings, it's about 10-12mm outward as well. This might not work for me since my wheels were taking into account factory stance and not an additional 10-12mm.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

The one thing I forgot about is that doing this mod, also pushes your wheels outward (like you're running a lower offset wheel). From my readings, it's about 10-12mm outward as well. This might not work for me since my wheels were taking into account factory stance and not an additional 10-12mm.

I don't see how that would be the case mechanically.

These are not camber plates, only a tension strut (as per first photo), so the wheel is not attached farther out on the axle, it merely changes of angle

I'm not sure if I did get your point right though?

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

I don't see how that would be the case mechanically.

These are not camber plates, only a tension strut (as per first photo), so the wheel is not attached farther out on the axle, it merely changes of angle

I'm not sure if I did get your point right though?

Lancelot

Fitting the longer lower control arm does a few things
- added about 1 deg of neg camber (sweet)
- moved the top of the wheel out a bit (reducing clearance to the fender)
- moved the wheel about 1/2 in forward in the wheel well, adding some caster (and further reducing clearance to the fender)

This OE upgrade (on a stock chassis or for someone considering an alternative to Sway bars) will:-
- be v effective in reducing understeer and making turn in sharper;
- negates the need for front spacers (front track is o/a 1"/25mm wider);
- reduce wear on outer shoulder PSS;
- adds more feel to EPS in both modes.

BP

[duckJAI]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Lancelot

Fitting the longer lower control arm does a few things
- added about 1 deg of neg camber (sweet)
- moved the top of the wheel out a bit (reducing clearance to the fender)
- moved the wheel about 1/2 in forward in the wheel well, adding some caster (and further reducing clearance to the fender)

This OE upgrade (on a stock chassis or for someone considering an alternative to Sway bars) will:-
- be v effective in reducing understeer and making turn in sharper;
- negates the need for front spacers (front track is o/a 1"/25mm wider);
- reduce wear on outer shoulder PSS;
- adds more feel to EPS in both modes.

BP

Bee Pee, I saw your before and after photos and it didn't look like your wheels stuck out 10-12mm more than before the mod. Others have not been able to confirm this either, so I'm a bit confused about this.

If you did experience your wheels effectively sticking out 10-12mm more, maybe it was the result of the M135i since it is a smaller car than the F30?

[Bee Pee]

10-12mm wider at the bottom of the wheel. Maybe 4-5mm at the top nearer to the wheel arch

It'll be same for F2x and F3x cars as its a function of the geometry, very crude sketch for you, standard and long wishbone:

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

These aren't recommended for x drive as they are longer than stock arms so would put greater stress on FWD components.

E30toF30 shop confirms the same, not compatible with XDrive

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Lancelot

Fitting the longer lower control arm does a few things
- added about 1 deg of neg camber (sweet)
- moved the top of the wheel out a bit (reducing clearance to the fender)
- moved the wheel about 1/2 in forward in the wheel well, adding some caster (and further reducing clearance to the fender)

This OE upgrade (on a stock chassis or for someone considering an alternative to Sway bars) will:-
- be v effective in reducing understeer and making turn in sharper;
- negates the need for front spacers (front track is o/a 1"/25mm wider);
- reduce wear on outer shoulder PSS;
- adds more feel to EPS in both modes.

BP

Is there actually a downside to this mod in your experience? Because I can't find any, but on the other hand BMW would have made it a factory default otherwise?

[Bee Pee]

Lancelot,

non M cars have hydro bushes and lower spec materials for their suspension components which helps differentiate the M car from the rest.

On e series, you could upgrade both LCA and tension strut from M car to non M car and this way both lower wishbone components are upgraded with solid rubber bushes and the wheel position with the wheel arch remained more central.

The downside just now is you have one wishbone with rubber bush [LCA] and one wuith hydro bush [TS]. F8x tension strut upgrade is still very new and reads like it can be done but you need spacers as rubber bushing in F8x TS is narrower than the hydro bush of F2x or F3x TS.

BP

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Lancelot,

non M cars have hydro bushes and lower spec materials for their suspension components which helps differentiate the M car from the rest.

On e series, you could upgrade both LCA and tension strut from M car to non M car and this way both lower wishbone components are upgraded with solid rubber bushes and the wheel position with the wheel arch remained more central.

The downside just now is you have one wishbone with rubber bush [LCA] and one wuith hydro bush [TS]. F8x tension strut upgrade is still very new and reads like it can be done but you need spacers as rubber bushing in F8x TS is narrower than the hydro bush of F2x or F3x TS.

BP

Sounds like you were in the shop with me
I originally ordered a full set of LCA+TS indeed and we ended up keping the original TS because of the exact reason you mention: F8x TS are narrower.

[Bee Pee]

Lancelot,

It looks as if F8x TS are in fact longer. Very good photo below showing the differences between F2x TS [top] and F8x TS [bottom] - the latter being longer and so will help put wheel axis back towards being more central in the wheel arch.


Photo above also shows the need for the spacers and the guy on 2addicts commented as follows in separate post further down

I think that using the stock tension struts with the F8x LCAs twisted the suspension geometry enough to have lowered the car. I know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.

The initial mis-information we got about the length of the tension struts is really a shame

Taken from this thread on 2 addicts

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...1250352&page=3

[duckJAI]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

10-12mm wider at the bottom of the wheel. Maybe 4-5mm at the top nearer to the wheel arch

It'll be same for F2x and F3x cars as its a function of the geometry, very crude sketch for you, standard and long wishbone:

Ah ok, I understand what you mean now. Yeah with more camber, it will provide a wider track at the bottom. I thought you meant it pushed the entire wheel outward 10-12mm, which is substantial (pretty much like adding a spacer).

[duckJAI]

Lancelot and @Bee Pee, have you guys tried doing the swivel mod as well?

Thinking of doing this with the F8x arms so hoping to get -2 to -2.5 camber with doing the combo mod.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by duckJAI

Lancelot and @Bee Pee, have you guys tried doing the swivel mod as well?

Thinking of doing this with the F8x arms so hoping to get -2 to -2.5 camber with doing the combo mod.

My m135i has -30min/-0.5 deg swivels fitted as standard.

[Seraphblade@sg]

Hi,

I have been following this for a while.

Anyone able to advise if my wheels will rub? I am on 245/35/19 in front. On M Sports Suspension with Dinan springs, so i guess around 1.5 to 2" lower than normal and slightly bigger wheels?

I am not running spacers since the rims are flushed at the moment.

Edit: Car is a F30, 328i

Clearance is pretty limited to begin with as shown:

[Bee Pee]

Wow - is that a split on the tyre sidewall just left of top centre ?

Depends on you wheel specs whether or not F8x LCAs and TSs will cause any rubbing

[Seraphblade@sg]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Wow - is that a split on the tyre sidewall just left of top centre ?

Depends on you wheel specs whether or not F8x LCAs and TSs will cause any rubbing

Affirm, but it's not leaking yet. And I am too poor to afford new shoes =(

What would happen if I only installed the LCAs? If I recall correctly, the post by HP autosports mentioned that it is not possible to fit in the TS on the F3x platforms, but the E9x m3 will fit.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg

What would happen if I only installed the LCAs? If I recall correctly, the post by HP autosports mentioned that it is not possible to fit in the TS on the F3x platforms, but the E9x m3 will fit.

see post #37 above - its early days but the link to 2addicts thread hints at TS can be paired with LCAs to fit non M F2x and F3x

PS - nice Breyton rims BTW - what are the specs ? - picture of the whole car to see how they look F&R ?