[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by boltjames

Balding middle managers and their wives dropping little Bobby off at private school.

BJ

What is common-place in your neighborhood is not indicative of the rest of the country my friend.

I'll assume by your reference to "enthusiasts" in quotes that you are excluding yourself from this class. I suppose that means you're from the former class of owners referenced in your statement?

I'm certainly wise enough to take everything that appears on internet forums with a grain of salt. There's no way someone could possibly be as big of an elitist prick in real life as he projects himself to be on the internet. But, I must admit, it's certainly fun watching the drama unfold.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

What is common-place in your neighborhood is not indicative of the rest of the country my friend.

Better make that:Rest of the world.

Cheers
Robin

[BMWFanatic2008]

Originally Posted by boltjames

Thanks, Dr. Freud.

Don't believe what you read in discussion forums. Use your eyes on the city streets, look at the people driving 3 Series. Balding middle managers and their wives dropping little Bobby off at private school. There are 100,000 normal owners for every 1 of you so-called "enthusiasts".

Do not blame us because you are lost in 1995 when the 3 Series was a small, entry-level performance car. Today, it's a larger, softer $50,000 imported luxury car for 48 year old wealthy elitists, not some ricer to drive illegally in residential neighborhoods.

The person driving the wrong car is you.

BJ

90 percent of all people (not just among BMW owners) don't know anything about cars. That's why majority of F30s on the the road are going to be in bland configurations (Luxury/Modern) . Nothing new here.

[Robin_NL]

I came across this, dunno if it's ontopic but I guess so:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...eed-crash.html


Cheers
Robin

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by James_Squire

How about a loaded 320i over a base 328i?

I would say yes if the 320i exceeded the cost of the base 328i. The 328i may be faster, but the buyer obviously prioritized comfort/luxury/niceties of options over going with a faster engine. How could it not be?

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

But that's the great thing about most BMW enthusiasts. They are accepting of everyone who shares their loyalty to the marque - regardless of series or model.

I haven't experienced this, at least not on forums. BMW has been the worst brand I've seen for elitism from its owners.

Just look how this thread got started...a 335i owner asks if 328i owners debadge their cars as if they have something to hide or they should feel inferior to a 335i.

Seriously, how freaking absurd of a question is that?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I haven't experienced this, at least not on forums. BMW has been the worst brand I've seen for elitism from its owners.

Agreed.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I haven't experienced this, at least not on forums. BMW has been the worst brand I've seen for elitism from its owners.

The hypocrisy is so thick you could cut it with a knife:

- They hate shallow people who show-off status symbols. So they drive status symbols.

- They hate yuppie scum. So they drive a yuppie car.

- They hate elitists. But feel empowered to use city streets as a racetrack.

- They hate the appearance of wealth. So they drive $50,000 cars that only the upper 20% of the population can afford.

- They don't like BMW making the 3 Series bigger and softer. So they keep buying them anyway.

"I hate elitists!" they say out of the left corner of their mouths, "And my 335i pwns your 328i!" they say out of the right. This is the problem that happens when people buy the wrong cars for the wrong reasons. Ask anyone on the street, any average person, to describe the BMW brand and its owners. No one will say "track loving sports car enthusiasts".

Yet elitists such as myself are ostracized as abnormal on this board. Bizzarro Superman indeed.

BJ

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by BMWFanatic2008

90 percent of all people (not just among BMW owners) don't know anything about cars. That's why majority of F30s on the the road are going to be in bland configurations (Luxury/Modern)

Nothing new here.

...or, BMW knows exactly who its customer is and has morphed the 3 Series from the E36 slotcar to the F30 cruiser for a purposeful reason.

They spend millions of dollars on research, have a database of millions of satisfied 3 Series owners. So when you see the transformation from the E36 to E46 to E90 to F30, it's all you need to know, tells you everything, answers all questions.

What that 90% of "all people" know about BMW's is that they make them look good, feel good, and cost a lot of money. They don't need to know about cylinders, suspensions, unsprung weight, chipping, and all this nonsense that has nothing to do about getting from Point A to Point B in style.

You're an enthusiast. I'm an elitist. We both are in it for the same reasons. You get your kills at high speed on the roads, I get mine standing still in the parking lot. If this were a Ford forum and we were talking about Mustang's, you're right, this talk of status symbols and wealthy people wouldn't occur because it would make no sense. Here in Bizzarro BMW Land, same thing, but the other way around. This talk of an F30 as some track-worthy high-performance sportscar is a laughable concept. You're taking a soft, luxury status symbol and trying to turn it into something it's not because you're stuck in 1985 when BMW made the car you really want.

BJ

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I haven't experienced this, at least not on forums. BMW has been the worst brand I've seen for elitism from its owners.

Just look how this thread got started...a 335i owner asks if 328i owners debadge their cars as if they have something to hide or they should feel inferior to a 335i.

Seriously, how freaking absurd of a question is that?

Without a doubt an absurd question. Although I'd be willing to wager it was a question posed in jest to incite controversy. Some people get great satisfaction stirring the pot without consequence on the internet. Others a just plain dicks.

A lot of what happens on forums isn't based in reality. Occasionally you'll come across a forum with a mean age greater than 12 yrs. old. Often you won't. I guess I've been spoiled by participating in a number of forums that ARE for and by enthusiasts frequented by folks genuinely interested in helping each other and sharing their knowledge. The majority of them were centered around older generations, so perhaps that's the difference. They weren't the original douchbag owners who feel compelled to swing their dicks around and spout how much better they are than everyone else.

I originally came to this site looking for some more info about the new F30. I found a sea of crap that requires diligence to wade through. The shear quantity of posts that are flat out wrong and/or easily answered with a minimum of effort is mind numbing. There is a small core of folks who actually do appear to be knowledgeable and willing to share that knowledge. Then there are the typical forum assclowns. Every site has them.

In the real world (at least the one I live in), true Bimmerphiles ARE a very accepting group. Join your local CCA and go to their meetings and events. I'm pretty sure you'll see what I'm talking about. Nowhere else will you find guys with brand new $100k+ cars rubbing elbows (and getting dirty) with guys with 20+ year old hoopties with 300k miles.

Use forums for entertainment and the occasional fact-finding mission. Walk away from the computer and out of the house to find REAL friends to play with.

[emtrey]

Is there anyone I'm this board who just drives a BMW because they are great driving cars ? I have driven BMW products ( incl 2 minis ) since 1977 with one shirt hiatus and find it hard to find a car that gives me the balance of performance, comfort and feel of a BMW.So I keep coming back.

Am I proud of my car, yep , because its a great car, is it de-badged, yep because it looks good. I could care less what Others think especially BMW owners who likely know what it is.

If you bought your BMW for snob appeal only, you will hopefully learn why it's an elite car and not an elitist car or you will move on to to another status symbol.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by emtrey

Is there anyone I'm this board who just drives a BMW because they are great driving cars ?

Am I proud of my car, yep , because its a great car, is it de-badged, yep because it looks good. I could care less what Others think especially BMW owners who likely know what it is.

If you bought your BMW for snob appeal only, you will hopefully learn why it's an elite car and not an elitist car or you will move on to to another status symbol.

That would be me.

My first car, E93, was to show off, be a status-symbol. Great car, had to get rid of it early, too small for my needs.

My next car, E90 M-Sport, was to fit in as an enthusiast. Terrible car, couldn't wait to get rid of it, incredibly harsh ride, for the 30 seconds a week of 'twisty' thrills I suffered with 5 hours a week of driving a steel plank feeling every road imperfection and pothole.

My current car, F30 Luxury line, is just the car I wanted for the sheer driving pleasure. And by "driving" I don't mean "racing". I mean the whole experience from the sumptuous leather seats, to the multi-tone interior, to the sound-deadening material, to the quiet exhaust, to the iDrive tech toys, to the smarphone integration.

It took me a few tries to get it right, but it's all good now.

BJ

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by boltjames

.

You're an enthusiast. I'm an elitist. We both are in it for the same reasons.

This talk of an F30 as some track-worthy high-performance sportscar is a laughable concept.


BJ

NO, you're in it for the SAME reasons, by your own words, you're in it for a different reason.

Yeah, it would be laughable if an enthusiast were to claim the F30 is a
"track worthy high performance sports car".
That's why enthusiasts DON'T claim that.

You make up whatever pops into your head and convey it as truth.
You don't know what a driving "enthusiast" is, and it would be pointless to try and explain it to you.

Better tostay with what you know, which is being an elitist, attention seeking, wealth flaunting egoist, driving a BMW to parade a status symbol to whomever it is your are trying to impress.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Use forums for entertainment and the occasional fact-finding mission. Walk away from the computer and out of the house to find REAL friends to play with.

Words of wisdom. I like it!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by emtrey

Is there anyone on this board who just drives a BMW because they are great driving cars ?

If you bought your BMW for snob appeal only, you will hopefully learn why it's an elite car and not an elitist car or you will move on to to another status symbol.

Yes there are brother!
You and I can join with the others who feel the same way.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Yes there are brother!
You and I can join with the others who feel the same way.

I got my first BMW, an E39 530i, because my wife was bitching about the Volvo I was going to pull the trigger on. She wanted a BMW (for her it was status--mostly). I agreed to look for one and we ended up with the 5er.

Holy crap, was I taken by how it drove. I'm on my fourth one now because I enjoy the sh*t out of driving--that's what makes a Bimmer so fun. Whatever model you have, as they say in Texas: "Dance with the one you brung"

[Jackson743]

I don't know anyone with anything going on, let alone an . . . 'elitest' . . . that would call any 3-Series a luxury car. It is what it is. It's a nice lil'entry level luxury car or a very good sports sedan. You're trying way too hard, Mate.

You're impressing no one with a 3-series. More importantly, if you don't enjoy driving the thing in a sporty manner, you made a poor buying decision because you missed the boat with the real luxury car buyers.

People with 550i's, M5's, any 7-series and I won't mention Merc owners are laughing at you for either: 1) blowing you wad on a Rolex . . . hence the 328; or 2) the more likely explanation, it's one of the million fake Chinese knockoffs in the Tri-State area worn by insecure guys that are, again, trying way too hard.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by RPM90

NO, you're in it for the SAME reasons, by your own words, you're in it for a different reason.

Yeah, it would be laughable if an enthusiast were to claim the F30 is a
"track worthy high performance sports car".
That's why enthusiasts DON'T claim that.

You make up whatever pops into your head and convey it as truth.
You don't know what a driving "enthusiast" is, and it would be pointless to try and explain it to you.

Better tostay with what you know, which is being an elitist, attention seeking, wealth flaunting egoist, driving a BMW to parade a status symbol to whomever it is your are trying to impress.

I was just trying to make a point in an argument. I should have said "I was an elitist" as it would have been clearer. And don't confuse my point with my present lifestyle. My point is that an F30 is no enthusiasts ride anymore, BMW themselves are making that quite clear. My lifestyle is one in which I don't need a car to show off anything, I drive the F30 because it's (finally) a comfortable car with throaty acceleration and great road manners.

Like anyone who spends $50,000 on a luxury car, there's a modicum of self-loving ego-stroking involved. You'd be driving a WRX if there wasn't.

BJ

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by Jackson743

I don't know anyone with anything going on, let alone an . . . 'elitest' . . . that would call any 3-Series a luxury car. It is what it is. It's a nice lil'entry level luxury car or a very good sports sedan. You're trying way too hard, Mate.

You're impressing no one with a 3-series. More importantly, if you don't enjoy driving the thing in a sporty manner, you made a poor buying decision because you missed the boat with the real luxury car buyers.

People with 550i's, M5's, any 7-series and I won't mention Merc owners are laughing at you for either: 1) blowing you wad on a Rolex . . . hence the 328; or 2) the more likely explanation, it's one of the million fake Chinese knockoffs in the Tri-State area worn by insecure guys that are, again, trying way too hard.

Thanks, Dr. Pavlov.

The average American household grosses $49,000 annually. They can't even dream of a $50,000 car. They see a BMW, they're impressed mightily. Those who are in it for the badge aren't trying to impress you and I. They're trying to keep up with you and I. I'm not impressed when I see someone in a 3 Series or a 5 Series either. But my nanny? My cleaning girl? My lawn guy? Speechless.

Since you're a psychologist, can you answer this for me? Why do you performance enthusiasts try so hard to disassociate yourselves with the very DNA that comes standard with every BMW? Elitism, power, prestige, status, there's a really great Subaru out there that's lighter, smaller, firmer and has none of these elements yet you buy the bigger, heavier, softer F30. Why? Why the gravitation to a brand and car that is a known yuppie status-symbol instead of something more 'earthy', something sincere instead of this hypocritical nonsense?

I own an F30 because I love the way it looks, how it blasts from a stop, how it handles, and all the tech toys. I also recognize that 90% of the 3 Series on the road are driven by 50 year old executives and their wives merely as a 30MPH status-symbol. Doesn't bother me at all. Why can't performance enthusiasts do likewise?

BJ

[JUSKIDN]

is it me or is it getting warm in here?

[JUSKIDN]

Sir Im going to have to request you speak more in the Queen's English

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

I haven't experienced this, at least not on forums. BMW has been the worst brand I've seen for elitism from its owners.

Just look how this thread got started...a 335i owner asks if 328i owners debadge their cars as if they have something to hide or they should feel inferior to a 335i.

Seriously, how freaking absurd of a question is that?

This is nothing compared to some of the crap that was on F10 forum.

I count three 335s here from Chicago (including the OP), the 'second city' so you see understand the motivation (inferiority complex)