[Hodor]

Originally Posted by claykin

He's making a joke that they copy each others designs.

Exactly. There's such a knee jerk reaction to his review that people are trying to misunderstand his point. At least I hope it's intentional otherwise several people fail quite badly at simple verbal comprehension.

[ric124]

Originally Posted by 755MSL

Watch the 328i vs C250 comparison video and compare it to this video. From loving the interior, steering feel (which he calls hydraulic assisted) and ride quality to what he says in this video about 335i - no consistency. Motortrend loses a bit of credibility with every video they put out. Only person worth watching from that group of reviewers is Carlos Lago, at-least he knows what he's talking about and has some charisma.

+1

Carlos is the only credible one

Also this guy said in this video at different points basically hates everything about the ATS except steering

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by ric124

+1

Carlos is the only credible one

Also this guy said in this video at different points basically hates everything about the ATS except steering

+1 well put.

[ric124]

Originally Posted by 宝马.e90

Yes, so what? Again, BMW's always won for that fact. This is nothing towards you personally, but everyone really need to take off the fanboy shades and go back and see why BMW's won all those comparisons, I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't because of their plain interior, sometimes bad exteriors or iDrive...

Not a fanboy, this is my first BMW.

in the review he basically hated everything about the ATS except the steering feel. How do you give a comparison and

Engine - BMW
Transmission - BMW
Interior - MB
Multimedia - BMW
Steering - Cadillac
Speed - BMW

and the winner is Cadillac ATS

[FogCityM3]

So true. Despite the fact that the E9x M3 is a monster and a joy to drive, I loved my E46 330i. The handling, chassis, road feel, ride, size...so much of it was perfect and sublime and had significantly better driving dynamics vs the F30. The E46 reached the pinnacle of excellence and was so far ahead of its time and the competition. Cadillac was spot on in targeting E46 chassis feel to essentially use BMW "against itself" and beat it at its own game...pretty amazing.

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

+1


BTW Cadillac benchmarked the E46 not the E90 because the head engineer at GM in charge of the Alpha platform believes that the E46 was the ultimate sports sedan and lost sight of that with the E90 and went way out the park with the F30.

I figured this was going to happen the minute I drove the F30.

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by ric124

Not a fanboy, this is my first BMW.

in the review he basically hated everything about the ATS except the steering feel. How do you give a comparison and

Engine - BMW
Transmission - BMW
Interior - MB
Multimedia - BMW
Steering - Cadillac
Speed - BMW

and the winner is Cadillac ATS

That's exactly what I was thinking but you put it so pragmatically which is awesome!

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by mhabs

So true. Despite the fact that the E9x M3 is a monster and a joy to drive, I loved my E46 330i. The handling, chassis, road feel, ride, size...so much of it was perfect and sublime and had significantly better driving dynamics vs the F30. The E46 reached the pinnacle of excellence and was so far ahead of its time and the competition. Cadillac was spot on in targeting E46 chassis feel to essentially use BMW "against itself" and beat it at its own game...pretty amazing.

You do have a point, look what I found:

Don Butler, Vice President of Marketing for Cadillac, says the ATS is made to compete with BMW's 3 Series, easily the top dog in the segment.

Butler admits the all-new ATS has not won every comparison, but says it is gaining ground. For Cadillac to hit its targets, ATS sales have to be at least 50 percent "conquest" — winning over drivers of other brands. So far, it is actually beating that goal: GM reported this month that 70 percent of drivers who traded in a vehicle to buy an ATS were new to Cadillac.

Whether or not those buyers traded in other luxury cars is not clear, but the numbers are good for Cadillac either way. Apart from conquest sales, Cadillac is targeting young, first-time luxury buyers, whom it dubs "move-ups."

Among critics as well as customers, it seems the German hold on the compact sedan crown is loosening. Motor Trend compared the sportier iterations of each (the BMW 328i and ATS 2.0 Turbo), and gave BMW the win "by the skin of its teeth." The Los Angeles Times wrote the ATS "is not a better car" than the 3 Series, but that it is nonetheless "a massive step in the right direction." I have not driven a recent 3 Series, but after a weekend in the ATS, I agree.

http://www.businessinsider.com/2013-...review-2012-11

[claykin]

Originally Posted by ric124

Not a fanboy, this is my first BMW.

in the review he basically hated everything about the ATS except the steering feel. How do you give a comparison and

Engine - BMW
Transmission - BMW
Interior - MB
Multimedia - BMW
Steering - Cadillac
Speed - BMW

and the winner is Cadillac ATS

you forgot chassis, ride quality and maybe one or two other areas the MT reviewer discussed.

I do wish he would have told us if he drove the 335i in Sport mode and if the car had DHP.

Same for the Caddy. Did the car have magnetic ride control?

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Roki_014

and also he said steering is light, i agree it is lighter than previous generation, but you get use to it after few days of driving and then when you change to sport mode the steering really stiffens up and feels good .... that's what she said

I think the reviewer actually used the term "rubbery".

[ric124]

Originally Posted by claykin

I think the reviewer actually used the term "rubbery".

A few months ago he said it had the best steering feel in the class and thats because it was still hydraulic

[claykin]

Originally Posted by jk3355

I just can't get past the awkward interior styling. And the fact they do not offer a 6 speed manual with the 3.6 is another big no thanks. BMW still offers 4% of us whole still prefer a third pedal.

GM manufactured 8 speed auto coming in CY2014.
http://www.13abc.com/story/18769971/...d-transmission

Rumor is that GM is buying an 8 speed auto from Aisin (Japan) and will use for a year or so in the new Caddy models such as the ATS.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/13/c...ecause-gms-ow/

[claykin]

Originally Posted by ric124

A few months ago he said it had the best steering feel in the class and thats because it was still hydraulic

I think we all wish it was still hydraulic. As for the reviewer, not sure if he was making another joke or was just mistaken. Didn't read/watch that one.

Caddy seems to have proven that electric steering doesn't have to be a huge downgrade and come with random vibrations...

[Blindside_137]

I find all the cars quite unattractive, but really happy for caddy on making a great car.

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I find all the cars quite unattractive, but really happy for caddy on making a great car.

+1

[AbuArije5]

I feel the Mercedes c350 has the best interior

[V8]

I'm sorry, I just can't believe this. I had to borrow a C300 for 3 weeks waiting for my M6 and that car was awful.
The interior is unbelievably cheap feeling. I mean beyond cheap plastics and don't even get me started on MB Tech, the rubber 'leather' they use on the seats.

I also had to laugh how close he made out the 2 navigation systems. Again the Merc one is from another era, totally useless with a hideous GUI.

I've driven a new 328i loaner and that car is infinitely more refined inside.

Also the Merc is one wallowing whale of a car, just a real pice of shit.

Makes me wonder who's payroll these guys are on....

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by mhabs

Why is everyone so shocked at this result...and no it's not just Motortrend, there are a lot of corroborative reviews (in the US and abroad) that as a majority, agree that the new BMWs' steering and chassis feel hasn't really gotten better and is losing to the competition. For anyone contemplating the new 3, do not get the regular (non sport) suspension. I recently have driven a 328i non-sports line and is was sooo boring compared to the sports line/suspension (also on new gen 3) with worse ride quality in my opinion. Whatever you do, test drive the sports suspension and compare before you buy.

As far as I've seen all of the cars BMW has given these guys to review have not had the dynamic handling package which makes a huge difference. We have an F30 328i (no dynamic handling package) and it's true that the steering and suspension are quite soft. It's my brother's car and he absolutely loves it because it rides really nicely, but compared to our E90 and my E92 it's clearly a way less sporty car.

I see it as BMW dropping the ball by waiting sooo long to make M Adaptive suspension available on these cars, all of the reviews are already out based on the very un-sporty standard suspension so now the whole perception of the F30 is that it's too soft and rubbery. They have also left a lot of room for the M Performance version of this car to be much more direct and involving with firmer bushings and stuff (look at how much every reviewer seems to adore the M135i) but that car is probably still many months away.

On the other hand, saying the C350 is better to drive than the F30 is ridiculous. One of my best friends has a C350 Sport coupe and even he wouldn't dream of comparing its handling to either an F30 or an E90, it's just soooooft and floaty and you can't feel jack through the pedals or the steering wheel. I've never driven an ATS so I can't comment on that but I will say that the CTS-V I drove was hugely impressive and a ton of fun.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I find all the cars quite unattractive, but really happy for caddy on making a great car.

+1. Hope this means the future for US auto industry is bright(er).

[claykin]

Originally Posted by AbuArije5

I feel the Mercedes c350 has the best interior

Since the refresh in 2011. Prior to that the C Class interior was awful.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by V8

I'm sorry, I just can't believe this. I had to borrow a C300 for 3 weeks waiting for my M6 and that car was awful.
The interior is unbelievably cheap feeling. I mean beyond cheap plastics and don't even get me started on MB Tech, the rubber 'leather' they use on the seats.

I also had to laugh how close he made out the 2 navigation systems. Again the Merc one is from another era, totally useless with a hideous GUI.

I've driven a new 328i loaner and that car is infinitely more refined inside.

Also the Merc is one wallowing whale of a car, just a real pice of shit.

Makes me wonder who's payroll these guys are on....

Was the C300 you drove a 2011+ car? Thats when MB refreshed the C class and seriously upgraded the previously horrid interior.


That would be "MB Tex". Its not leather and neither is BMW's "P-Leatherette"

I believe he did mock the MB Nav system appropriately. I agree with you that its pretty crap and behind the times.

Not so sure I agree that the C series refresh is a "wallowing whale" but I agree with you that its not better than the F30. I drove two C350 Sports trying to like that car. I just don't love MB engineering. Some do, I don't.

[Hoosiers]

So the ATS-V will have a different transmission, different engine, and with the superior chassis this may be a game changer. It'll be interesting to see if they use the new LT-1 smallblock, which is expected to put out at least 440hp from a lightweight NA V8, which IMO is more attractive than a the expected 420hp from a turbo 6.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by daydaychu

What I think the 1 big problem with the most car journalists out there Is that They emphasise too much on sport. The older 3er was Criticised been too sport oriented and too uncomfortable. Now they made it more all around and critics started saying it is too soft. People buy these cars to use it, not race it. If you talk about which car is better overall. I think the 3er still tops the other 2.

I've been have been a BMW fanatic back to the E30 days and reading car enthusiast magazines from US, UK and Canada for decades and I don't recall one article where they have criticized BMW for their "emphasize too much on sport."

Quite the contrary, BMW wins most enthusiasts comparisons BECAUSE of their sportiness feel, balance, handling and connection to the road. Back in the E36 days, 325i weren't always the fastest, but by being more "sporty" it won comparision test for these reasons. Bottome line, BMW's were more fun to drive. This established BMW 3-Series as the ultimate sports sedan that journalists is the model that others tried to copy.

Circa 2013 model and the tables are turned, with the ATS being more sporty, essentially beating BMW at it's own game. And so BMW loses this comparison because it was too numb, inferior handling, i.e., not sporty, not fun to drive compared to the Caddy. This is very consistent with the past, so I'm not sure why some of you are being defensive. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I for one am happy that Caddy (of all brands) has raised the standard. Now it's up to BMW to respond to become even better than before. This is good for all of us future potential buyers.