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      07-13-2012, 06:18 AM   #45
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Are there any performance advantages to dry handling with xDrive? *In theory the system should perform like a limited slip on both axles no? *Not sure if the braking of the slipping wheel would counteract any sort of performance advantage in a turn. *Also not clear if the system itself would be quick enough to react.
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      07-13-2012, 09:56 AM   #46
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FWIW,

With the F30, you can't get the Sport Suspension per se with AWD, but you can get the M Adaptive Suspension with AWD just like you can with RWD. You can also get Sport Steering and Sport AT with AWD just like with RWD.

I assume past differences between RWD and AWD will be lessened in the F30 if both the RWD and the AWD are equipped with these three options and have the same wheels & tires.

Thanks
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      07-13-2012, 10:38 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post
FWIW,

With the F30, you can't get the Sport Suspension per se with AWD, but you can get the M Adaptive Suspension with AWD just like you can with RWD. You can also get Sport Steering and Sport AT with AWD just like with RWD.

I assume past differences between RWD and AWD will be lessened in the F30 if both the RWD and the AWD are equipped with these three options and have the same wheels & tires.

Thanks
Bruce
maybe there is still hope. according to the latest press release from BMW re: F31, adaptive M suspension will be available, combined with 10mm lowered stance (confirmed). it is safe to assume they can do it for the sedan as well but whether they actually bring it over is another question.
Dynamic options: M Sport package, Adaptive M Sport suspension and sports automatic transmission.
For out-and-out enthusiasts, further features are available to enhance the dynamic driving qualities of the new BMW 3 Series and give them a distinctive visual dimension as well. The M Sport package, which will become available after launch, is designed for this very purpose and has been developed specifically for this model series. It includes the lowered M Sport suspension, featuring a 10 millimeter drop in ride height, firmer suspension and damping, and larger anti-roll bars. Also featured are 18 or 19-inch M alloy wheels. The package is completed by an M aerodynamics package featuring special body parts, and by chrome tailpipes, exclusive exterior paintwork and interior trim to match. An Adaptive M Sport suspension with electronically controlled damping is also optionally available for the new BMW 3 Series Touring equipped with the M Sport Package. Based on incoming information about body and wheel acceleration, lateral and longitudinal acceleration, vehicle speed and steering wheel position, an electronic control unit adapts the damper mapping to the road surface and driving situation. At the same time the driver can use the Driving Dynamics Control switch to vary the basic suspension characteristics between more comfortable or sportier settings. An 8-speed sports automatic transmission with faster shift times and sporty steering wheel-mounted paddle shifts is also available as an option.
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      07-13-2012, 11:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianDriver View Post
maybe there is still hope. according to the latest press release from BMW re: F31, adaptive M suspension will be available, combined with 10mm lowered stance (confirmed). it is safe to assume they can do it for the sedan as well but whether they actually bring it over is another question.
Dynamic options: M Sport package, Adaptive M Sport suspension and sports automatic transmission.
For out-and-out enthusiasts, further features are available to enhance the dynamic driving qualities of the new BMW 3 Series and give them a distinctive visual dimension as well. The M Sport package, which will become available after launch, is designed for this very purpose and has been developed specifically for this model series. It includes the lowered M Sport suspension, featuring a 10 millimeter drop in ride height, firmer suspension and damping, and larger anti-roll bars. Also featured are 18 or 19-inch M alloy wheels. The package is completed by an M aerodynamics package featuring special body parts, and by chrome tailpipes, exclusive exterior paintwork and interior trim to match. An Adaptive M Sport suspension with electronically controlled damping is also optionally available for the new BMW 3 Series Touring equipped with the M Sport Package. Based on incoming information about body and wheel acceleration, lateral and longitudinal acceleration, vehicle speed and steering wheel position, an electronic control unit adapts the damper mapping to the road surface and driving situation. At the same time the driver can use the Driving Dynamics Control switch to vary the basic suspension characteristics between more comfortable or sportier settings. An 8-speed sports automatic transmission with faster shift times and sporty steering wheel-mounted paddle shifts is also available as an option.
I thought xdrive was still getting sports suspension but not being lowered by 10mm like the non xdrive is...
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      07-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post
FWIW,

With the F30, you can't get the Sport Suspension per se with AWD, but you can get the M Adaptive Suspension with AWD just like you can with RWD. You can also get Sport Steering and Sport AT with AWD just like with RWD.

I assume past differences between RWD and AWD will be lessened in the F30 if both the RWD and the AWD are equipped with these three options and have the same wheels & tires.

Thanks
Bruce

This is what I have been wondering? IMO if you can get all wheel drive and the M suspension, then I will get the xDrivie, this topic has been one that I have not been able to confirm anywhere.
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      07-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
This is what I have been wondering? IMO if you can get all wheel drive and the M suspension, then I will get the xDrivie, this topic has been one that I have not been able to confirm anywhere.
You can, I already ordered a 335i xDrive M Sport with the handling package (M Adaptive Suspension + Variable Steering)

However, xDrive equipped F30s get a different front suspension setup (To accommodate the front end xDrive components) than the base and sport suspension F30s. Hence the lack of drop in ride height.
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      07-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #51
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Btw, here is an actual picture of a pre production xDrive equipped M Sport F30 sitting next to one with the sport suspension. The difference appears to be very minimal , hoping this translates into production models. Previous gen xDrive cars have a noticeably higher ride height.

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      07-13-2012, 01:58 PM   #52
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As Bruce said, you can get xDrive with the regular suspension and add M Adaptive Suspension, just as you can get the RWD Sport models and upgrade their non-adaptive sport suspensions to the M Adaptive variety. Most folks here say that on the xDrive models, the M Adaptive is the same as on the non-xDrive models EXCEPT that the xDrive variants are NOT lowered 10mm (about 3/8").
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      07-13-2012, 05:17 PM   #53
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I am confused. So, you can get the adaptive M suspension, but the car is not lowered?
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      07-13-2012, 08:08 PM   #54
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That's my understanding -- but only on the xDrive models; RWD do get lowered 10mm.

I believe that the suspension choices are:
RWD: regular, sport (lowered 10mm), or adaptive (lowered 10mm)
xDrive: regular or adaptive (no lowering)

I've picked up this info from reading lots of posts here. I may be repeating bad info. (This is the Internet, after all!) If anyone knows different, please correct this and me.
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      07-14-2012, 08:58 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds
I live in an area of Ontario known as the snow belt....we are right between lake Erie and Lake Huron...so we get hammered at times. But I will still get a RWD. A couple of reasons. For starters, I will buy good snow tires. Secondly, it's cheaper. Finally, I live on a bus route, so my street is almost always ploughed quickly.

Even when it the deep snow is on the ground for a few days...think about winter time in North America. Snowy cities clear their snow well. So between December and March, you might have 10 days where the snow is actually a problem on the road. The majority of days the roads are clear because the snow is off to the side.

I would say go with what you'll enjoy the majority of the time...the other 8 months of the year.
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      01-05-2013, 11:38 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard View Post
Get the 335i xDrive because it's faster 0-60 than RWD...

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690579
Actually on dry pavement...the RWD is a bit faster (BMW's numbers show it). On snow and ice...the AWD will be faster off the line.
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      01-05-2013, 11:49 AM   #57
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BMW Worldwide's published numbers can be found here:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html

Those pages show the xDrive as being quicker in either 328 or 335 trim.
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      01-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
BMW Worldwide's published numbers can be found here:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html

Those pages show the xDrive as being quicker in either 328 or 335 trim.
Cool site! Not sure how I've missed that.
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      01-05-2013, 12:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
BMW Worldwide's published numbers can be found here:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html

Those pages show the xDrive as being quicker in either 328 or 335 trim.
You know...you are right. Even the US BMW Booklet shows the x drive is 1/10 of a second faster than RWD.
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      01-05-2013, 01:03 PM   #60
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And on a wet road the Xdrive is probably a full second faster to 60
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      03-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #61
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The way I look at it 90% of the 'habitable' planet has no snow or ice on the roads 10 months out of the year. Unless you live in Russia or a remote region where there is NO infrastructure for snow plowing. And in that case chances are you already drive a suitable SUV/Off road/ beater vehicle and are NOT looking to buy a new 3 series BMW.

Considering that FACT (that 80% of the year the car is not going to be driven on snow or ice) and that AWD diminishes your MPGs by a noticeable amount I would NEVER get an X Drive car.

Just for the MPG differences alone turns me off.


But in terms of 'sporty' handling and acceleration (something 99% of people BUY a BMW for) am I to understand that the F30 Xdrive is BETTER than the F30 RWD!?

My current BMW is RWD and I've leased two C Class Mercedes with AWD since 2009 (a 2010 C3004matic and a 2012 C300 4matic).

On paper the C300 and my BMW are about the same performance but real world comparison and my experiences has taught me that the AWD is noticeably sluggish off the blocks and DOES NOT handle any better on dry (or wet pavements) than my BMW while s getting something like 18 to 19 mpg s over all where as my BMW gets 26/27 mpgs over all.

Even on deep snow or ice driving (where I live there are a lot of steep hills) the AWD on all seasons seems just as vulnerable to sliding and slipping down a hill or while braking hard in traffic as my BMW wearing the same tires.

The ONLY argument I cannot contest is whether 4matic and xDrive are the same. But I suspect the xDrive to be better than 4matic from what I've seen advertised about xDrive.

Funny enough of all the cars I've ever owned and driven the 2008 FWD Honda Accord (on all seasons) I leased back in 2007 was the best car in snow, ice, deep slush, etc. For some reason the winter I had that Accord we got extreme amounts of snow in the North East USA.

I took that Accord up the Catskills mountain when I went Ice Climbing in a snow blizzard and I would never forget how that car got me down the mountain safely and 200 miles home of driving thru a pitch black snow blizzard!

My 2012 4matic can barely make it down the 45 degree inclined driveway that wraps around from the back parking area to the front my condo complex without slipping.
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Last edited by delmarco; 03-11-2013 at 03:27 PM..
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      03-11-2013, 03:32 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarco View Post
The way I look at it 90% of the 'habitable' planet has no snow or ice on the roads 10 months out of the year. Unless you live in Russia or a remote region where there is NO infrastructure for snow plowing. And in that case chances are you already drive a suitable SUV/Off road/ beater vehicle and are NOT looking to buy a new 3 series BMW.

Considering that FACT (that 80% of the year the car is not going to be driven on snow or ice) and that AWD diminishes your MPGs by a noticeable amount I would NEVER get an X Drive car.

Just for the MPG differences alone turns me off.


But in terms of 'sporty' handling and acceleration (something 99% of people BUY a BMW for) am I to understand that the F30 Xdrive is BETTER than the F30 RWD!?

My current BMW is RWD and I've leased two C Class Mercedes with AWD since 2009 (a 2010 C3004matic and a 2012 C300 4matic).

On paper the C300 and my BMW are about the same performance but real world comparison and my experiences has taught me that the AWD is noticeably sluggish off the blocks and DOES NOT handle any better on dry (or wet pavements) than my BMW while s getting something like 18 to 19 mpg s over all where as my BMW gets 26/27 mpgs over all.

Even on deep snow or ice driving (where I live there are a lot of steep hills) the AWD on all seasons seems just as vulnerable to sliding and slipping down a hill or while braking hard in traffic as my BMW wearing the same tires.

The ONLY argument I cannot contest is whether 4matic and xDrive are the same. But I suspect the xDrive to be better than 4matic from what I've seen advertised about xDrive.

Funny enough of all the cars I've ever owned and driven the 2008 FWD Honda Accord (on all seasons) I leased back in 2007 was the best car in snow, ice, deep slush, etc. For some reason the winter I had that Accord we got extreme amounts of snow in the North East USA.

I took that Accord up the Catskills mountain when I went Ice Climbing in a snow blizzard and I would never forget how that car got me down the mountain safely and 200 miles home of driving thru a pitch black snow blizzard!

My 2012 4matic can barely make it down the 45 degree inclined driveway that wraps around from the back parking area to the front my condo complex without slipping.
XDrive is on almost every BMW in my area. Its one of the reasons I am even considering it. I've never seen one bmw Xdrive on the side of the road during a snow storm. I've seen plenty of flipped over Jeeps, rwd ford mustangs... but never an XDrive...
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      03-11-2013, 03:55 PM   #63
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Many people wrongly think the AWD only useful in snow but this intelligent xdrive system gives a lot of extra traction in wet/damp weather as well all year around :thumbsup
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      03-11-2013, 04:04 PM   #64
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Never felt my xDrive 335i e90 was lacking in the performance department. I also live at the top of a hill that gets plenty of snow in the winter. RWD with proper tires might get you through most situations on flat roads, but good luck getting up steep snow covered hills.
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      03-11-2013, 05:06 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarco View Post
The way I look at it 90% of the 'habitable' planet has no snow or ice on the roads 10 months out of the year. Unless you live in Russia or a remote region where there is NO infrastructure for snow plowing. And in that case chances are you already drive a suitable SUV/Off road/ beater vehicle and are NOT looking to buy a new 3 series BMW.

Considering that FACT (that 80% of the year the car is not going to be driven on snow or ice) and that AWD diminishes your MPGs by a noticeable amount I would NEVER get an X Drive car.

Just for the MPG differences alone turns me off.


But in terms of 'sporty' handling and acceleration (something 99% of people BUY a BMW for) am I to understand that the F30 Xdrive is BETTER than the F30 RWD!?

My current BMW is RWD and I've leased two C Class Mercedes with AWD since 2009 (a 2010 C3004matic and a 2012 C300 4matic).

On paper the C300 and my BMW are about the same performance but real world comparison and my experiences has taught me that the AWD is noticeably sluggish off the blocks and DOES NOT handle any better on dry (or wet pavements) than my BMW while s getting something like 18 to 19 mpg s over all where as my BMW gets 26/27 mpgs over all.

Even on deep snow or ice driving (where I live there are a lot of steep hills) the AWD on all seasons seems just as vulnerable to sliding and slipping down a hill or while braking hard in traffic as my BMW wearing the same tires.

The ONLY argument I cannot contest is whether 4matic and xDrive are the same. But I suspect the xDrive to be better than 4matic from what I've seen advertised about xDrive.

Funny enough of all the cars I've ever owned and driven the 2008 FWD Honda Accord (on all seasons) I leased back in 2007 was the best car in snow, ice, deep slush, etc. For some reason the winter I had that Accord we got extreme amounts of snow in the North East USA.

I took that Accord up the Catskills mountain when I went Ice Climbing in a snow blizzard and I would never forget how that car got me down the mountain safely and 200 miles home of driving thru a pitch black snow blizzard!

My 2012 4matic can barely make it down the 45 degree inclined driveway that wraps around from the back parking area to the front my condo complex without slipping.
I agree. I do think Xdrive is a good system but again it depends on your needs and where you live. I had a Audi S4 a few cars ago and I will say that car was great in any conditions but the AWD and 8cyl. motor were a horror scene on MPG. I was seeing 14 and 15 MPG. For me I know for a fact that a good set of dedicated snows on RWD will get you where you need to go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JK479 View Post
XDrive is on almost every BMW in my area. Its one of the reasons I am even considering it. I've never seen one bmw Xdrive on the side of the road during a snow storm. I've seen plenty of flipped over Jeeps, rwd ford mustangs... but never an XDrive...
So, Jeeps are 4 wheel drive and you see them flipped over. Seems to me that is operator induced. You can have any system you want, AWD, X Drive, 4 matic or plain old RWD. In the end if you drive like an ass you will pay the price. I see all types of vehicles stranded on the side of the road and flipped over too. People get a false sense of security with AWD systems and drive in snow and ice like they're on a dry road. It's comes down to common sense. RWD with dedicated snow tires will do the job. If you want to spend the extra cash on Xdrive then that is your choice.
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      03-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #66
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Where I live in New York City/Westchester County the price of gas affects me 365 days of the year but we only get "driving-impairing" snow and ice storms maybe 3 to 5 occasions out of the year and most times the roads are salted, plowed and cleared by the time you 'need' to drive somewhere.

In the last 10 years of driving I can only remember ONE occasion where driving my BMW thru a snow/ice storm scared the crap out of me. (That was my 1995 318i BMW and to fault myself I had old bald tires when the fast moving storm caught me driving home. I swear I gained a new respect for fog lamps and BMW's exceptional use of LSD on those older cars.)

For me this is why I regret leasing a 17/24 mpg/228hp C3004matic and why I most likely would not buy an xDrive BMW over RWD.

If I'm going to sacrifice mpgs like that I'd rather sacrifice it for performance and speed.

I mean at the end of the day if MPGs were important would you rather own a 17/24mpg 550i M sport or a 17/24mpg 335xi?

That is how I've always viewed it.

But if xDrive on the F30 is said to improve handling and performance then and ONLY then would I buy a xDrive over a RWD.

That was actually my question?

I seen a couple of xDrive tutorial videos but only have a mild sense of what xDrive is doing in regards to turning and cornering but are you xDrivers seeing this vast improvement in acceleration, handling and HP in real world situations?
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Last edited by delmarco; 03-11-2013 at 05:42 PM..
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