[tuco44]

I also disagree, it's a great DD. I'll likely buy it out of the lease next year.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by tuco44

I also disagree, it's a great DD. I'll likely buy it out of the lease next year.

I dont blame u one bit
I drive and smile often
dunno what everyone else is hollarin about

[Beek]

Loving this thread, best line so far: "Accord with FWD and the continuously vaginal transmissions" LMAO!

[Kafkaesque328]

Originally Posted by tuco44

I also disagree, it's a great DD. I'll likely buy it out of the lease next year.

I feel the same way but we'll likely change our tune when we realize the residual value is set about 30% higher than what the car will be worth at that time and when BMW only knocks a grand or something off the RV and you realize you could buy another similar F30 for about $7000 less, we might feel differently.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

I feel the same way but we'll likely change our tune when we realize the residual value is set about 30% higher than what the car will be worth at that time and when BMW only knocks a grand or something off the RV and you realize you could buy another similar F30 for about $7000 less, we might feel differently.

That's just what happened to me. I was offered pull ahead, then a newer better can in warranty for the same payment and little down. And I really loved my 335. Hello 340!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

I feel the same way but we'll likely change our tune when we realize the residual value is set about 30% higher than what the car will be worth at that time and when BMW only knocks a grand or something off the RV and you realize you could buy another similar F30 for about $7000 less, we might feel differently.

You aren't even a little wrong. The trade-in at a BMW Dealership for my car is already 4k lower than my residual value...and I have 13 payments left to go. I always knew that high-residual leases were a lease-duration trap, but I've never seen it this bad.

[zinner]

I got a FWD X1 28i for my loaner car. I guess I should of made a video about why I didn't care for it and posted it the X1 forum.

But then I realized that BMW makes all kinda of cars for all kinds of people and this just wasn't the one for me. As for the Chris Harris video he is a professional auto journalist, if he didn't lean toward more positive reviews they video producers/bmw would find someone who does and give me a test car.

The auto journalist industry is always going to be a bit fanboi and push new products as new and improved.

[NormanConquest]

I hated the f series until I got behind a 340i, now I find it comparable considering all the government require crap they have to add to the vehical.

[Kafkaesque328]

Originally Posted by bri1042

You aren't even a little wrong. The trade-in at a BMW Dealership for my car is already 4k lower than my residual value...and I have 13 payments left to go. I always knew that high-residual leases were a lease-duration trap, but I've never seen it this bad.

Yep. Current estimated kelly blue book trade in on my car right now is like $24000. The residual value on my car at the end of my lease, in october 2019, is $32500. Haha!

Now IF BMW kept up with the excellent lease deals and inflated residuals, I would say this is 'fine' and that it just keeps me trapped in the never ending cycle of $350-400 payments on $50k BMW sedans with few worries, which might suit me fine, but the problem is that currently, already, lease deals aren't as good as they were a year ago. So I'm afraid that when my lease is up, the deals @ end of my lease won't be as attractive, so leasing again won't look attractive, the selling price/buyout on my car will be like $10000 more than its worth and my only option will be to buy a CPO used F30.

By then, I'll be sick of the F30. One thing to keep my existing F30 off lease because I will have grown somewhat attached to it, but another thing entirely to get yet another F30, some used one I buy and roll dice on. I guess getting a CPO 340i would be the only choice I could be happy with because buying a used F30, like mine, but for cheaper just seems utterly depressing. Jesus, the dilemmas.

I would say in order of preference for me, it would be:

1) buy my existing car off lease for a price on par with what the car is actually worth (unlikely), and keep another 5 years or so
2) lease a G20 on the cheap
3) buy CPO 340i or 440i for high 20's.

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

That's just what happened to me. I was offered pull ahead, then a newer better can in warranty for the same payment and little down. And I really loved my 335. Hello 340!

Yup, this is where they get you. They know what they're doing. Thats what they did on the 320. I had 4 payments left on it, or something, maybe 5 I don't remember, and they ate those payments, I got out of the 320 months earlier than I thought I'd be able to and I got into this current car for a song. At that point they were offering to sell me my 320 for $2500 under the residual, which was still more than it was worth and why would I do that when I could get a way better car for the exact same payment?

[NormanConquest]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

Yep. Current estimated kelly blue book trade in on my car right now is like $24000. The residual value on my car at the end of my lease, in october 2019, is $32500. Haha!

Now IF BMW kept up with the excellent lease deals and inflated residuals, I would say this is 'fine' and that it just keeps me trapped in the never ending cycle of $350-400 payments on $50k BMW sedans with few worries, which might suit me fine, but the problem is that currently, already, lease deals aren't as good as they were a year ago. So I'm afraid that when my lease is up, the deals @ end of my lease won't be as attractive, so leasing again won't look attractive, the selling price/buyout on my car will be like $10000 more than its worth and my only option will be to buy a CPO used F30.

By then, I'll be sick of the F30. One thing to keep my existing F30 off lease because I will have grown somewhat attached to it, but another thing entirely to get yet another F30, some used one I buy and roll dice on. I guess getting a CPO 340i would be the only choice I could be happy with because buying a used F30, like mine, but for cheaper just seems utterly depressing. Jesus, the dilemmas.

I would say in order of preference for me, it would be:

1) buy my existing car off lease for a price on par with what the car is actually worth (unlikely), and keep another 5 years or so
2) lease a G20 on the cheap
3) buy CPO 340i or 440i for high 20's.



Yup, this is where they get you. They know what they're doing. Thats what they did on the 320. I had 4 payments left on it, or something, maybe 5 I don't remember, and they ate those payments, I got out of the 320 months earlier than I thought I'd be able to and I got into this current car for a song. At that point they were offering to sell me my 320 for $2500 under the residual, which was still more than it was worth and why would I do that when I could get a way better car for the exact same payment?

I hate leasing, much rather beat the living crap out of the dealer with a ton of tricks I employ and buy the car 20%+ below msrp.

[wilbur_the_goose]

My first car, a '72 Ford Gran Torino was better than my F30.

Come on - stop.

I've had an E46, E90, E92, and now an F30. My favorite is my F30.

[jinxremoved]

I honestly think of my F30 as more like the E39 540 than an E46 330. All three are great cars.

[CalCarNut]

Crazy..KBB says my 17K mile car is worth about $25K as a dealer trade. Too bad there isn't a middle finger icon here to use lol. I owe less but really, 25K for a car with low miles and a 14mo warranty left?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

This guy is bang up to date wih his videos then, let's do a video slating the F30 just as it's about to be replaced.

Man reviews car 7 years after release, that already has thousands of online reviews available, and thinks he has something new and interesting to say........

[jmg]

Originally Posted by NormanConquest

I hate leasing, much rather beat the living crap out of the dealer with a ton of tricks I employ and buy the car 20%+ below msrp.

You can get that same MSRP on a lease btw. Purchase price is purchase price.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Crazy..KBB says my 17K mile car is worth about $25K as a dealer trade. Too bad there isn't a middle finger icon here to use lol. I owe less but really, 25K for a car with low miles and a 14mo warranty left?

Mine is worth less, just under 14k miles and I owe just a tad more than it's worth so....

Just glad I bought it to keep

[CalCarNut]

Most for sale here are 28-30K (dealership price). If they think I'd give away the car at 25K so they can make ~20% profit, they're delusional.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

More or less, much of it was a misunderstanding as I had mentioned last night. Once again, I attempted to do too many things at once so most of it was "misread" and I admit fault. However, I'm still curious about where you really stand with the F30:

You mention you "like the F30" but say this:

Those of us who have had BMW's and 3 series in the past know all too well that BMW bowed to the sales god and turned away from it's true faith of building great, fun to drive automobiles.

Well, I took it the wrong way and I'm sure you'll enjoy the 2-er much much more but I still find the 3-er fun to drive even with this X-Drive setup let alone everything else BMW has done to screw this car up as many enthusiasts mention all the time here...I think this is the comment that "got me" then I misread from there trying to do too many things at once.

Although I might have deserved a poke at my first comment, any further insults would truly show what kind of person you are and I don't think you're that person. (you don't sound like it) No need to "belittle" anyone over a simple mistake.

And now yet another overly long post from me.
Yes, I do have a problem. HA!

My apologies on any insult or belittlement as that was not my intention.
Poking some fun at you was.

I did intend to a bit of belittlement in my other post to another poster though.

My comments on the F30 are in relation to the other BMW's I've owned, in particular a 2003 E46 sport, and a 2009 135i.
The F30 with sport packaging, suspension and sport seats in particular, give it a distinctly different feel to the standard model.
That has been true with the 3 series for a long time.
Still, the 3 series was also a very capable and competent "sport sedan" in base form, and the spork pkg upped the driver enjoyment factor.

The issues a lot of former owners and enthusiasts have with the F30 is that the base car was softened too much, such that the car wallows/sways more than any 3 before it did. I felt it too. The steering assist level feels too boosted. BMW did this also with early E46 3, and within a couple years altered the system to give less assist, requiring more effort from the driver.
It's something that those who like European cars prefer. In the US, US and Asian makers tend to give much greater steering boost assist.
On top of that the F30 had lost the "feel" of the front end and what the front tires were doing in relation to steering inputs.
The steering is still sharp and direct, but the feel of the sharpness and directness is very diminished.
The LCI brought some physical changes to some front end components, suspension, and the steering rack, and there was an incremental positive change. I felt it my 340i when I first got it.
If BMW had released the F30 in LCI tune it might not have been so beat up by the automotive press. But, that's just my opinion.

Even with the sport suspension and the M-adaptive dampers the overall suspension is still more wallowly/sway prone, than the E46 and E90.
Mid-corner bumps upset the cars rear end whereas my E46 was amazingly planted. My F30 335i Msport's rear reminds me of my 135i, as that little coupe also didn't have a well sorted rear suspension in that regard. It's damping was off. The 2 series corrected the tendency nicely.

And of course, overall the size of the 3 grew.
The want of a softer ride, more boost steering that requires less effort, more rear seat room, were things that the general car buying public said they wanted in a 3 series. BMW responded and the F30 sold well and overall 3 series sales went up.
That's great for BMW, and great overall for BMW enthusiasts.

However, it is my opinion, and I think also a lot of other enthusiasts, that BMW could have and should have done a better job on tuning the "sport" and "Msport" variants of the F30 better.
Those who like and want a softer 3 series can have one as BMW made one for them. But, for the sport and Msport variants BMW should have relied more on their former formula making sure the F30 retained it's "sport sedan" characteristics.

An example is the "comfort" mode. Why would I want a softer throttle response and less responsive auto trans in a "sport/Msport" 3 series?
Even the "normal" mode has slow response as well.
For the LCI normal mode did have an improved performance for the
M-adaptive dampers. The ride was better controlled in normal and in sport mode it firms up better than in my 335i.

Overall, the F30 is still a great sporty sedan. It may sound stupid to some, but, it's less of a sport-sedan than before. That comes from experiencing the differences over time.
Still, in comparison to the other competitors to the BMW 3 series I still preferred the F30 over the cars from MB, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, and others.

I'm not a fanboy. I prefer to be honest about what I like and don't like. To some that may come across as being a hater.
Everyone can have opinions, and where opinions are needed the more the better. In general, too many people seem to think that their opinions can also be inserted and replace areas of fact. We can all get caught in that trap.
I know I've done it.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by bri1042

You aren't even a little wrong. The trade-in at a BMW Dealership for my car is already 4k lower than my residual value...and I have 13 payments left to go. I always knew that high-residual leases were a lease-duration trap, but I've never seen it this bad.

OUCH!

I was offered a great deal on my 2009 135i.

I'm not seeing such a similar great deal on my 340i.
Still, even at the residual my 340i has fared great.
It's been very reliable.
Actually, all 4 of my BMWs have been reliable contrary to the general public's negative view on BMW reliability.

All and any car brands and their cars can have a problem here and there.
How those problems can taken care of means a lot to me.
BMW has been the best ownership experience I've had, with Audi a close second, since I started driving, which was a long time ago now.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose

My first car, a '72 Ford Gran Torino was better than my F30.

Come on - stop.

I've had an E46, E90, E92, and now an F30. My favorite is my F30.

That's great.
We like what we like for our own reasons.

My favorite was my 2003 E46.
Next would by my 340i Msport, then 135i, and last F30 335i Msport.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by RPM90

And now yet another overly long post from me.
Yes, I do have a problem. HA!

My apologies on any insult or belittlement as that was not my intention.
Poking some fun at you was.

I did intent to belittle in my other post to another poster though.

My comments on the F30 are in relation to the other BMW's I've owned, in particular a 2003 E46 sport, and a 2009 135i.
The F30 with sport packaging, suspension and sport seats in particular, give it a distinctly different feel to the standard model.
That has been true with the 3 series for a long time.
Still, the 3 series was also a very capable and competent "sport sedan" in base form, and the spork pkg upped the driver enjoyment factor.

The issues a lot of former owners and enthusiasts have with the F30 is that the base car was softened too much, such that the car wallows/sways more than any 3 before it did. I felt it too. The steering assist level feels too boosted. BMW did this also with early E46 3, and within a couple years altered the system to give less assist, requiring more effort from the driver.
It's something that those who like European cars prefer. In the US, US and Asian makers tend to give much greater steering boost assist.
On top of that the F30 had lost the "feel" of the front end and what the front tires were doing in relation to steering inputs.
The steering is still sharp and direct, but the feel of the sharpness and directness is very diminished.
The LCI brought some physical changes to some front end components, suspension, and the steering rack, and there was an incremental positive change. I felt it my 340i when I first got it.
If BMW had released the F30 in LCI tune it might not have been so beat up by the automotive press. But, that's just my opinion.

Even with the sport suspension and the M-adaptive dampers the overall suspension is still more wallowly/sway prone, than the E46 and E90.
Mid-corner bumps upset the cars rear end whereas my E46 was amazingly planted. My F30 335i Msport's rear reminds me of my 135i, as that little coupe also didn't have a well sorted rear suspension in that regard. It's damping was off. The 2 series corrected the tendency nicely.

And of course, overall the size of the 3 grew.
The want of a softer ride, more boost steering that requires less effort, more rear seat room, were things that the general car buying public said they wanted in a 3 series. BMW responded and the F30 sold well and overall 3 series sales went up.
That's great for BMW, and great overall for BMW enthusiasts.

However, it is my opinion, and I think also a lot of other enthusiasts, that BMW could have and should have done a better job on tuning the "sport" and "Msport" variants of the F30 better.
Those who like and want a softer 3 series can have one as BMW made one for them. But, for the sport and Msport variants BMW should have relied more on their former formula making sure the F30 retained it's "sport sedan" characteristics.

An example is the "comfort" mode. Why would I want a softer throttle response and less responsive auto trans in a "sport/Msport" 3 series?
Even the "normal" mode has slow response as well.
For the LCI normal mode did have an improved performance for the
M-adaptive dampers. The ride was better controlled in normal and in sport mode it firms up better than in my 335i.

Overall, the F30 is still a great sporty sedan. It may sound stupid to some, but, it's less of a sport-sedan than before. That comes from experiencing the differences over time.
Still, in comparison to the other competitors to the BMW 3 series I still preferred the F30 over the cars from MB, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, and others.

I'm not a fanboy. I'm prefer to be honest about what I like and don't like.
Everyone can have opinions, and where opinions are needed the more the better. In general, too many people seem to think that their opinions can also be inserted and replace areas of fact. We can all get caught in that trap.
I know I've done it.

I would say "yes, you have a problem" but your words clearly show that you are a serious car enthusiast which takes time (and words) to elaborate on! I'm sure in hell becoming one and FAST here...I have no one to thank but people like you that get me wanting more and more

Thanks and I truly should have taken the time and respect to reply to you properly to begin with so we're definitely good here. (and yes, I deserved a poke or three anyway because I completely misconstrued that post and then some, lol) Regardless, you have my utmost respect as MANY members do here. (damn near all too)

Of all people, I really appreciate you elaborating and sharing your thoughts as I'm new to the BMW game yet did not give them a fair shake years and years back when the E was "it" let alone ever. I drove it once and let's put it this way: I didn't "want" to like it as I grew up in a Cadillac family, owned several of them and just decided to stick with them instead. (yeah now you can really bust on me as I so well deserve for that, LOL) There was only one Caddy that stuck out in terms of excitement even if it was an unreliable pig: CTS4 Premium. Was my first car with 50/50 weight distribution and a sport suspension so that was the beginning of my "BMW life" if you will.

Fast forward to 2015-16, I was simply fed up with Cadillac and wanted out yet was stuck with what I had. I wanted to have fun again like I once did in my CTS4 before it literally went seal after seal, trim piece after piece...that seemed to be the only car that wanted to push me to drive faster and learn how to push a car to it's limits even if it fell apart after a few years. I then was in a serious car accident and my car was totaled. This was my chance to get into a fun car once again.

I was given a 2016 328i M-Sport from Enterprise and that's when it hit...I never friggin' thought I would take several days off just to spend with a damn car but that's just what I did the moment I picked it up. During this time, I stopped at damn near every single dealer yet every time I got back into my "rental", I wanted "the rental". Weird I know but I'll be damned if I don't smile every single time I get in this car every single day!!!!

On the flip side, I am starting to learn more and more by the day and am observing what the enthusiasts see. After driving an M2 then RS3, this car is not "the best" nor is it even close. I mentioned my CTS earlier because this sort of reminds me of that car as it likes to play yet it is it anywhere near perfect. Having said that, the two cannot really be compared so that's where it ends haha. I wrote this so you know along with others know exactly where I am coming from

I'll have to take more time to elaborate on your findings as they're spot on from the steering to the rear suspension; this is why I dabbed pathetically if you will on the M240i and/or M2 as THAT seems to be the car for me Never been able to slide a car around so much!!!!

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by RPM90

OUCH!

I was offered a great deal on my 2009 135i.

I'm not seeing such a similar great deal on my 340i.
Still, even at the residual my 340i has fared great.
It's been very reliable.
Actually, all 4 of my BMWs have been reliable contrary to the general public's negative view on BMW reliability.

All and any car brands and their cars can have a problem here and there.
How those problems can taken care of means a lot to me.
BMW has been the best ownership experience I've had, with Audi a close second, since I started driving, which was a long time ago now.

I made out like a bandit on my 2009 135i M sport too. Bought it new for 36,600 and traded it in 4 years later at 28,500 with full sales tax deferred, so more like 30,500. And as for as the ride, handling, suspension and steering, it was my least favorite BMW overall. It was so fast, but on the road the suspension being tuned for those early run flats was not good, and on the track it pushed way too much. No limited slip diff was a big no-no as well. I enjoy driving my F30 sport more in all regards except for power and steering feedback. Too bad the feedback on the 135i was always telling me the front end couldn't hold the line.

But to your earlier point, Yes the base 3 series does not have the default sportiness it has had previously. That isn't the end of the world if a basic sport package with all the things enthusiasts want are present without requiring the jump to a full M model, but it seems that too is slowly disappearing - hence many long time BMW drivers are voicing their displeasure.