[KCH1984]

Originally Posted by CraigUK

What sort of increase is this having on people's insurance premiums?

£35 (including the bl00dy admin fee) on my 330xd.

[CraigUK]

Thanks for that, insurance hikes don't seem to bad at all, was expecting worse.

[vadimo]

Looks like bluespark ignored my email:

"I came across your product recently and other some of your competitor products, just wanted to understand how guys you are different, for example DTS claims that they intercept more sensors (6) and what about your product?"

This is the product i am potentially interested in: http://bluesparkautomotive.com/bmw-320d-62766

Thank you

[Smee]

Tbh they are mega stacked my emailed use to get responded to within an hour but Edd was emailing me at 11pm the other night.

Maybe give them a buzz. Edd is the man to talk to about technical stuff. His talk is what convinced me

[KCH1984]

Originally Posted by vadimo

Looks like bluespark ignored my email:

"I came across your product recently and other some of your competitor products, just wanted to understand how guys you are different, for example DTS claims that they intercept more sensors (6) and what about your product?"

This is the product i am potentially interested in: http://bluesparkautomotive.com/bmw-320d-62766

Thank you

Edd and Greg are normally both quick to come back on the email address: sales@bluesparkautomotive.com but assume that's the one you've already tried.

Worth a follow-up, given they set up the forum discount for us through Lee.

[vadimo]

Originally Posted by KCH1984

Edd and Greg are normally both quick to come back on the email address: sales@bluesparkautomotive.com but assume that's the one you've already tried.

Worth a follow-up, given they set up the forum discount for us through Lee.

cool, i was using support@ aiming straight to the tech guys, will try sales@

[Smee]

Originally Posted by vadimo

cool, i was using support@ aiming straight to the tech guys, will try sales@

did you hear anything back??

[vadimo]

Originally Posted by Smee

did you hear anything back??

yep they responded which is cool

[JLR1969]

Found this interesting

These tuning boxes did work well and made a good difference to the standard car, but both of these went onto be mapped and the mapped cars were a good deal better.I would say a good tuning box will give you about 70-80 % of what a good map will.
Tuning boxes have their place, some cars, especially newer models are unable to be mapped as the manufacturers do a very good job of keeping the tuners out. These cars along with anything that has a warranty are where people who want more power, may use a tuning box.
Also people who don't intend to keep the car for a long time may choose a tuning box as they can remove it and sell it on.
I know that you can map a car and then remove the map if it needs to go into the garage but that is just hassle for most people.
On a modern common rail engine there is always a good excess of air, the manufacturers design them that way so basically if you want more power you need more fuel.
With a map you would alter pretty much all the maps you have mentioned drivers wish, smoke, torque , Lambda, Injection etc to get that extra fuel. Taking my 3.0 TDI Audi as an example the common rail maximum pressure of the standard car is 1600 Bar. However most of the time it's a lot less than that. By increasing the rail pressure above what the ECU would normally command results in a higher rail pressure, so more fuel is injected when the injectors open resulting in more power. Because of the amount excess air available in the factory tune you can do this and still keep a reasonable Lambda value.
I actually set up the tuning box of my Audi on the bench and using a variable power supply altered the input voltage whilst measuring the output voltage, and then altering the switches that are used to vary the effect I could see what the tuning box was doing.
The sensor on the fuel rail with no pressure put's out 0.5V . When the ignition is turned on initially the ECU checks the sensor voltage and looks for around 0.5V, There may be some residual pressure in the rail but typically it will be around 0.5V. So the tuning box needs to output 0.5V if the input is 0.5V. As the common rail pressure rises and the sensor output voltage increases the tuning box alters the voltage being sent to the ECU. So although the ECU may think there is 1000 bar of pressure in the rail because of the modified voltage it's actually putting in 1250 bar .
As the ECU commands the pump to generate the pressure in the rail. Some of the more advanced boxes are able to tell how fast the engine is turning as when the injectors open on the main injection cycle this causes a spike in the rail pressure. You can measure these spikes to derive information on the engine speed.
There is a slight problem when it comes to peak power. When you are running the engine flat out the pump is running at 1600 bar, to get more power out of the engine using a tuning box requires the pump pressure to exceed this 1600 bar level. On the Audi I calculated that the tuning box was allowing the fuel rail to goto 1800 bar pressure when on the maximum setting.
This is what my car has been running for several years now with the maps I have had on it and it's not been an issue.
The more complicated dual channel boxes do a similar thing with the boost sensor as well. They will increase boost by a small amount maybe 0.1-0.2 bar to help especially if the car has a DPF as modern cars do.
The increase in boost won't be any more than what a map would call for, and although a phase 1 map may not alter the rail pressure it will have to alter the injection duration to get more fuel in which does increase the workload for the pump.
That is why I don't believe some of the numbers that the tuning boxes claim. As they can only increase rail pressure and not injection duration.
The trip computer reading on a car with a tuning box won't be as accurate. As the ECU calculates fuel used by the injection duration and the rail pressure. As the rail pressure is now higher the calculation won't be accurate, which is why cars see better fuel economy on the trip.
There is a slight counter argument that the increased rail pressure causes better vapourisation of the fuel though and thus better running.

[Smee]

interesting read that.

my thoughts on the matter and i dont know where the Maximum fuel rail pressure is on the rev range so might be low down the rev range might be high up, my initial thoughts are high up the rev range... but as a percentage how often do you drive with your foot planted to the floor going round to red line??? probably 3 or 5% of the time if you are like me.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Smee

interesting read that.

my thoughts on the matter and i dont know where the Maximum fuel rail pressure is on the rev range so might be low down the rev range might be high up, my initial thoughts are high up the rev range... but as a percentage how often do you drive with your foot planted to the floor going round to red line??? probably 3 or 5% of the time if you are like me.

Interestingly I read a report from two uni lecturers who tested a tuning box and the reports came back that they actually use more fuel at lower speeds but the fuel savings only really happen at 60 mph plus, have a read

http://www.ijesit.com/Volume%202/Iss...T201301_35.pdf

[Smee]

haha i read that this morning

no idea but i think that is missleading they did 1 min runs at each speed in 3rd gear only. that isnt how you drive a car so its real world application hasnt been tested. at 30mph im in 5th gear lol. was also done 3 years ago on a pick up truck which isnt really modern tech like a bmw. i dunno its all witch craft to me lol

[Darth Helmut]

The fact I have found is that I am getting 460 miles out of a tank full since fitting my box as opposed to 420 miles before hand (squeezing 55.5 litres in to a 57ltr tank).

[KCH1984]

The only issue with these boxes is; you always want more! Might look into getting a box for the box! Ha.

[Smee]

Originally Posted by Symbol-formerly Mr Helmut

The fact I have found is that I am getting 460 miles out of a tank full since fitting my box as opposed to 420 miles before hand (squeezing 55.5 litres in to a 57ltr tank).

which disporves what they saw at the university thing listed above or you drive everywhere at 100% throttle and redline

[JLR1969]

I have decided to take the box off and send it back, given the car is brand new and I plan to keep it I am not comfortable using a tuning box which is not 100% clear whether rail pressures are exceeded or fuel pumps are working harder and for how much of the time.

I think if the car was leased and it was going back in 3 years then I would be less concerned but given I own it I don't want to risk anything.

Once I start a new job I think I will go with the BMW PPK as its a better solution, more expensive but mechanically more sympathetic and warranted.

Glad I tried it but feel relieved it's no longer on the car

[Smee]

agh such a shame mate but i understand you still coming to RR day?

[KCH1984]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I have decided to take the box off and send it back, given the car is brand new and I plan to keep it I am not comfortable using a tuning box which is not 100% clear whether rail pressures are exceeded or fuel pumps are working harder and for how much of the time.

I think if the car was leased and it was going back in 3 years then I would be less concerned but given I own it I don't want to risk anything.

Once I start a new job I think I will go with the BMW PPK as its a better solution, more expensive but mechanically more sympathetic and warranted.

Glad I tried it but feel relieved it's no longer on the car

I get where you're coming from - I think if I owned my car as well, I'd go down the MPPK route. With a car on lease / PCP though (that you intend to hand back) it's a bigger outlay and I'm happy with 80% of the gains for 20% of the cost!

[Smee]

I own mine lol.

[KCH1984]

Originally Posted by Smee

I own mine lol.

You have a 35d though...you don't get a MPPK for those, so there isn't an official warranty friendly option. If I was going to drop a grand on a tuning box, I'd sooner go for a 'proper' remap. For you, the bluespark is a great compromise.

There, think I just about dug myself out of that hole

[Squiretolley]

I've been considering a Bluespark box, but probably going to wait for my warranty to expire in Oct and go for a remap. I've had boxes and remaps before and much prefer the latter.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Smee

agh such a shame mate but i understand you still coming to RR day?

100% hotel booked and paid