F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > ATC 35L Transfer Case Rebuild
Extreme Powerhouse
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-28-2018, 06:47 AM   #23
OneLapper
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31dx
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog_x View Post
Interesting! Yes, on another forum (German) I was advised that there was a rebuilt TC available like you're saying, but I couldn't find it in the states, and couldn't wait that long to ship overseas. If mine goes out again I will probably just do another rebuild, I was able to get the main output shaft from a vendor in England. FCP will supposedly warranty replace the output shaft flange, so it'd be a $150 build doing all the bearings again.

I considered sending out the output flange to be hardened at a machine shop, but if they have designed a better part maybe that's not necessary. for those that aren't familiar with a press, or just don't have the time, it sounds like there is a viable alternative now. So thats
Where were you able to get the shaft? I had planned on rebuilding mine, as you did, with the flange and shaft, bearings, and clutch pack. I see there is a company in England selling Magna Steyr parts, but I never heard back from them.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2018, 07:15 AM   #24
kdog_x
Second Lieutenant
104
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 14 328d
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLapper View Post
Where were you able to get the shaft? I had planned on rebuilding mine, as you did, with the flange and shaft, bearings, and clutch pack. I see there is a company in England selling Magna Steyr parts, but I never heard back from them.
A place called JP Auto Transmissions out of Langford. Originally was going to be a week, but there were some delays and I had to wait about 6 weeks for them to get a pallet in. Didn't bother me since mine was already re-installed at that point. but they were very nice and helpful, and responded to all my requests. Quoted a better price than the manufacturer too!

Did you pick up the clutch pack already? I see them listed on eBay out of Slovakia for $300. Seems a little high, but I haven't looked around. I'm not sure what the life expectancy is on that part, but mine appeared to be in pretty good shape at 65k. If it makes it to 130K, I may need to look into that.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2018, 08:35 AM   #25
OneLapper
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31dx
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog_x View Post
A place called JP Auto Transmissions out of Langford. Originally was going to be a week, but there were some delays and I had to wait about 6 weeks for them to get a pallet in. Didn't bother me since mine was already re-installed at that point. but they were very nice and helpful, and responded to all my requests. Quoted a better price than the manufacturer too!

Did you pick up the clutch pack already? I see them listed on eBay out of Slovakia for $300. Seems a little high, but I haven't looked around. I'm not sure what the life expectancy is on that part, but mine appeared to be in pretty good shape at 65k. If it makes it to 130K, I may need to look into that.
I didn't buy any parts other than the flange from FCP (knowing I could return that and the seal easily). From what I gleaned from your post, and the prices I found here and there on the web, the cost of the parts to completely rebuild (less the actuator $$$) the TC was about the same as the new TC from BMW. The warranty made it an easy decision, and the dealer had it in stock.

BTW, I had changed the TC fluid twice before it failed. The fluid was contaminated from the metal coming from the flange and shaft. I dont see how damage throughout the TC can be avoided when this happens, albeit the metal flakes are quite small, the fluid carries the metal in suspension and circulates throughout the bearings and clutch pack.

When this new TC is out of warranty, and if I find the energy and time, I would consider installing a couple of fittings and hoses to make it easy to change the fluid. Not sure that would extend the life of the TC though, it seems the weak point is the flange, which then sends metal throughout the system.

I guess we'll see what happens. The car has 90k miles on it. Lets see how long this TC lasts.

You know, I sold my TDI with 600k miles on it. Other than one turbo and two clutches, one alternator and few batteries, it was trouble free. I love this F31 but it's come home on the roll back twice in 20k. I had a 2006 330ix as a company car for 3 years and liked it, but by the end of the lease it had a couple of big repairs already done under warranty. I hope I don't regret buying this car!

Last edited by OneLapper; 03-28-2018 at 09:14 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-09-2018, 07:49 AM   #26
n00bkiller944
Private First Class
55
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: '14 328d M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Richmond, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLapper View Post
I didn't buy any parts other than the flange from FCP (knowing I could return that and the seal easily). From what I gleaned from your post, and the prices I found here and there on the web, the cost of the parts to completely rebuild (less the actuator $$$) the TC was about the same as the new TC from BMW. The warranty made it an easy decision, and the dealer had it in stock.

BTW, I had changed the TC fluid twice before it failed. The fluid was contaminated from the metal coming from the flange and shaft. I dont see how damage throughout the TC can be avoided when this happens, albeit the metal flakes are quite small, the fluid carries the metal in suspension and circulates throughout the bearings and clutch pack.

When this new TC is out of warranty, and if I find the energy and time, I would consider installing a couple of fittings and hoses to make it easy to change the fluid. Not sure that would extend the life of the TC though, it seems the weak point is the flange, which then sends metal throughout the system.

I guess we'll see what happens. The car has 90k miles on it. Lets see how long this TC lasts.

You know, I sold my TDI with 600k miles on it. Other than one turbo and two clutches, one alternator and few batteries, it was trouble free. I love this F31 but it's come home on the roll back twice in 20k. I had a 2006 330ix as a company car for 3 years and liked it, but by the end of the lease it had a couple of big repairs already done under warranty. I hope I don't regret buying this car!
600k on the VW is impressive. What issues have you had with F31 in your 90k so far?
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2018, 10:15 PM   #27
OneLapper
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31dx
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
600k on the VW is impressive. What issues have you had with F31 in your 90k so far?
I would say the issues have been relatively minor but not necessarily cheap.

The first issue was a transmission fluid leak. Replacing the tranny fluid cooling pipes and o-rings solved that problem. When I replaced the pipes I also replaced the tranny fluid and pan/filter assembly, front and rear differential fluid (twice to flush them out), and the transfer case fluid (also twice). I consider this all deferred maintenance because if I had bought the car new I would have done this work to the car anyhow. The leaking tranny pipes..... bad design. Cost for new pipes, trans pan, and all fluids, filters, wiper blades, etc was over $900.

Second issue, the transfer case.

Current issue is a bad NOX sensor. The CEL was on for about 5 days. I decided to give the car/engine an Italian Tune Up (is there such a thing as a German Tune Up?) daily at least once. The light went off and has stayed off for the last two weeks. I drive about 800 miles per week and 90% of it I'm trying to match the fuel economy of the TDI..... not good for turbos. I learned with the TDI I needed to get on it hard at least once a day to clean out the turbo and catalyst. Of course, the new diesels are much much cleaner so maybe it's not needed.... but the CEL is now off, so....

I think I have the car pretty close to zeroed out. The last item is a slight kink in the steering wheel when returning the steering wheel back to center from making the slightest right turn.... like changing lanes. I'm pretty sure it has a bad steering shaft u joint which is $330. If its not that, it's the steering rack.

I guess I feel that a 4 year old car that was dealer maintained shouldn't need tranny cooling pipes, a transfer case, have a kink in the steering, and throw CELs. I was hoping BMW was better than that.

Again, I love driving this car. It's not as cheap to run as the TDI and I was prepared for that. I was surprised by the leaking pipes and no go transfer case, though. And I've read the price for NOX sensors are around $500. I haven't tried to find them cheaper which I'm sure I can.

Last edited by OneLapper; 04-11-2018 at 10:28 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 03:02 PM   #28
n00bkiller944
Private First Class
55
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: '14 328d M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Richmond, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLapper View Post
I would say the issues have been relatively minor but not necessarily cheap.

The first issue was a transmission fluid leak. Replacing the tranny fluid cooling pipes and o-rings solved that problem. When I replaced the pipes I also replaced the tranny fluid and pan/filter assembly, front and rear differential fluid (twice to flush them out), and the transfer case fluid (also twice). I consider this all deferred maintenance because if I had bought the car new I would have done this work to the car anyhow. The leaking tranny pipes..... bad design. Cost for new pipes, trans pan, and all fluids, filters, wiper blades, etc was over $900.

Second issue, the transfer case.

Current issue is a bad NOX sensor. The CEL was on for about 5 days. I decided to give the car/engine an Italian Tune Up (is there such a thing as a German Tune Up?) daily at least once. The light went off and has stayed off for the last two weeks. I drive about 800 miles per week and 90% of it I'm trying to match the fuel economy of the TDI..... not good for turbos. I learned with the TDI I needed to get on it hard at least once a day to clean out the turbo and catalyst. Of course, the new diesels are much much cleaner so maybe it's not needed.... but the CEL is now off, so....

I think I have the car pretty close to zeroed out. The last item is a slight kink in the steering wheel when returning the steering wheel back to center from making the slightest right turn.... like changing lanes. I'm pretty sure it has a bad steering shaft u joint which is $330. If its not that, it's the steering rack.

I guess I feel that a 4 year old car that was dealer maintained shouldn't need tranny cooling pipes, a transfer case, have a kink in the steering, and throw CELs. I was hoping BMW was better than that.

Again, I love driving this car. It's not as cheap to run as the TDI and I was prepared for that. I was surprised by the leaking pipes and no go transfer case, though. And I've read the price for NOX sensors are around $500. I haven't tried to find them cheaper which I'm sure I can.
Cool information! Thank you! I have been following the NOX sensors as well since it seems pretty common and I am sure I will have to do them at some point. Keep us updated on what you find with the NOX. Thanks for the information!
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2018, 08:08 AM   #29
kdog_x
Second Lieutenant
104
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 14 328d
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, nox sensors, DEF heater line, metering valve. You name it, it's junk. Now there's a wiring issue with the xenon headlight, had the whole bumper off and switched the headlights, it works when moved to the other side so it's definitely wiring. Definitely not impressed with the F30 build quality. My TDI ran with nearly zero issues for 130k.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2018, 09:05 AM   #30
CTSV
Registered
0
Rep
1
Posts

Drives: 2014 328d Xdrive
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Thanks to k-dog and One Lapper for all the info. This info saves so much research time I just can't thank you enough.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2019, 09:45 AM   #31
Mr Podman
First Lieutenant
150
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2015 F32 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

kdog_x

This is the best quality write-up and pictures I've ever seen on any forum.
Thanks much for it.

I'm curious whether you replaced the input shaft seal, part 27-10-7-539-262 and if not, why not?



podman
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2019, 09:11 PM   #32
kdog_x
Second Lieutenant
104
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 14 328d
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Podman View Post
kdog_x

This is the best quality write-up and pictures I've ever seen on any forum.
Thanks much for it.

I'm curious whether you replaced the input shaft seal, part 27-10-7-539-262 and if not, why not?



podman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Podman View Post
kdog_x

This is the best quality write-up and pictures I've ever seen on any forum.
Thanks much for it.

I'm curious whether you replaced the input shaft seal, part 27-10-7-539-262 and if not, why not?



podman
I did not replace it. But it was in good shape. I didn't need to remove it or anything though during the rebuild. If a leak was the suspected cause of failure then to me the seals would have been a required replacement. With the flange being the issue, the rear seal probably could have been skipped as well, though I'd probably replace it again due to the proximity to shavings. Certainly no harm in overkill and replace everything, especially if mileage is up there. Tearing everything back apart to replace a $30 seal later isn't a fun way to spend a weekend!
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2019, 06:03 PM   #33
clemsonf31
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2015 328d
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Perhaps I missed this but did you replace the aluminum cased guibo with an all rubber guibo? If so, what part number?
Great write up, thank you for sharing

Max
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2019, 08:28 AM   #34
OneLapper
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31dx
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

UPDATE 6/18/2019 mileage 145,442.

I put approx 59k miles (in 15 months) on the replacement ATC35L. It now has the same symptoms as the original TC. When accelerating moderately AND turning slightly, the car feels like it's skipping.

I purchased the replacement TC from the parts counter at my local BMW dealer. Yesterday I called to speak with the parts manager about the process of getting a warranty replacement for the TC. I was told that the McGovern Auto Group has purchased the dealership and no records of parts sales were transferred to the new owner. They said they can honor the warranty with the original receipt, which I have, and that the part has a two year warranty, not 5 years as I was told when I purchased the TC in March 2018. The parts manager told me I would have to pay the service dept to diagnose the failed TC before it can be considered for warranty replacement.

I find it inexcusable that a new TC lasts 59k miles in any car, worse in this case as almost all of my driving is at highway speeds on cruise control.

I'm going to make it my goal to talk to a regional BMW service rep. I highly doubt I'll find out anything new, I'm sure I know more about the ATC35L and it's issues than they do, but I need some sense of satisfaction of knowing that this a recognized problem and BMW/Magna Steyr had done something to fix the problem.

I have also reached out to the local CCA chapter to see if they have any contacts withing BMW that can address this problem.

If anyone here has a contact that they are willing to share with me, I'd appreciate it. OR, if anyone here has a definitive fix for the problem (output shaft yoke splines stripping out, metal then contaminates the oil, causing premature bearing wear), please post the fix.

I don't feel I should have to replace a TC every 18 months as preventative maintenance.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2019, 08:41 AM   #35
Enabled
Lieutenant
138
Rep
434
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLapper View Post
UPDATE 6/18/2019 mileage 145,442.

I put approx 59k miles (in 15 months) on the replacement ATC35L. It now has the same symptoms as the original TC. When accelerating moderately AND turning slightly, the car feels like it's skipping.

I purchased the replacement TC from the parts counter at my local BMW dealer. Yesterday I called to speak with the parts manager about the process of getting a warranty replacement for the TC. I was told that the McGovern Auto Group has purchased the dealership and no records of parts sales were transferred to the new owner. They said they can honor the warranty with the original receipt, which I have, and that the part has a two year warranty, not 5 years as I was told when I purchased the TC in March 2018. The parts manager told me I would have to pay the service dept to diagnose the failed TC before it can be considered for warranty replacement.

I find it inexcusable that a new TC lasts 59k miles in any car, worse in this case as almost all of my driving is at highway speeds on cruise control.

I'm going to make it my goal to talk to a regional BMW service rep. I highly doubt I'll find out anything new, I'm sure I know more about the ATC35L and it's issues than they do, but I need some sense of satisfaction of knowing that this a recognized problem and BMW/Magna Steyr had done something to fix the problem.

I have also reached out to the local CCA chapter to see if they have any contacts withing BMW that can address this problem.

If anyone here has a contact that they are willing to share with me, I'd appreciate it. OR, if anyone here has a definitive fix for the problem (output shaft yoke splines stripping out, metal then contaminates the oil, causing premature bearing wear), please post the fix.

I don't feel I should have to replace a TC every 18 months as preventative maintenance.
See this thread:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1579087
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon 2WD, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 250hp/420ft-lbs.
Others
-E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg Modded. S52 Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #36
OneLapper
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31dx
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Enabled, thanks for the link to your post. I had planned on doing exactly what you did! I got a bottle of 680 when I installed the last TC and it's been sitting on my work bench waiting for the next TC swap. This is a design flaw. I think the use of Lotite 680 will prolong the TC life, but I'm not sure it's the fix to prevent this from happening again.

How many miles do you have on your new TC?
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2019, 10:12 AM   #37
Enabled
Lieutenant
138
Rep
434
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

I think it will prevent it from happening (or at least make it last twice as long) because it will not allow the initial movements to start off the wear process. If it keeps it tight from the beginning, there is nothing to vibrate.

I have 5000 miles on mine so far. I will be changing my giubo with the rubber one, so I will inspect the output flange while there as well.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon 2WD, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 250hp/420ft-lbs.
Others
-E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg Modded. S52 Estoril Z3M Coupe.

Last edited by Enabled; 06-18-2019 at 10:18 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 08:36 AM   #38
kdog_x
Second Lieutenant
104
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 14 328d
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

I'm at about 5000 miles since I did the mod with no issues yet. Fix was applied, as well as the rubber guibo around 25-30k into the new transfer box, so there could have been some wear prior to the fix being applied.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2019, 01:43 PM   #39
David3
Private
10
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: E46, E70, E90, F10
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

550ix, 75k miles. Jerking transfer case with some level of whining during coasting. Split case, output shaft has typical wear. Output hub not stripped, yet. Dark oil, no metal...never changed. Bearings feel tight and smooth. Going to order new clutch pack. Steels seem somewhat discolored, but not blue. Should I order new output hub and install with lock tight 660? Anything else?
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2019, 08:09 AM   #40
David3
Private
10
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: E46, E70, E90, F10
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Case reinstalled with new clutch pack and old control unit. Using ISTA, I could communicate with control module, but could not calibrate. So, now I am thinking I had a bad control module/servo unit all along. Might explain why internals of case looked ok.

Thoughts on how to test control unit. BTW, those suckers are expensive at about $600.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2019, 01:27 PM   #41
Enabled
Lieutenant
138
Rep
434
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Case reinstalled with new clutch pack and old control unit. Using ISTA, I could communicate with control module, but could not calibrate. So, now I am thinking I had a bad control module/servo unit all along. Might explain why internals of case looked ok.

Thoughts on how to test control unit. BTW, those suckers are expensive at about $600.
I've bought those used for even as low as $75. They can go bad, yes.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon 2WD, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 250hp/420ft-lbs.
Others
-E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg Modded. S52 Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 08:38 PM   #42
M Pete
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
49
Posts

Drives: 2003 Imola M3 vert, 2014 F31
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Has anyone seen a video on the TC remove/install DIY? I have looked but can not find one. i am going to try to source a rebuilt one from my local dealer. Ill do the Loctite preventive measure on that one.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST