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      08-29-2020, 11:31 PM   #1
jdmwol2ks
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New to F30 for Tracking, got some questions

Hi Everybody,

I picked up a 2016 328i for DD and occasional HDPE events (maybe 5 events of tracks/autox a year). I've done a handful of events with my other car (S2000) so I'm no stranger to the basics but i'm curious with everybody's experience with the F30 specifically. Will be putting on a set of Michelin PS4S for good DD and high performance use. I'm looking to use the car at the track for fun and not chasing down lap times. Mainly will just be taking the car to Thunderhill East/West and Laguna Seca. Was hoping to get some in the following topics:

Brakes:
I've read the threads and it seems like the M sport (blue caliper) brakes with OEM pads should do the job with high temp fluid. Going to be putting in RBF 600 or ATE Type 200. Will this be enough? (May just do RBF600 since laguna does require heavy braking)

Drive Mode:
Split between running Sport+ or Sport with DSC off? I read that the eLSD is only on when DSC is off but can ruin the tires faster because it'll cause it to spin more (i understand that this could be reduced by how you contol throttle)? Vs the Sport+ DSC is minimal which maybe good as well but then when DSC kicks it it wears the rear brakes more? I'm leaning towards to running Sport/DSC off since I do have some peddle control (modulating the peddle) and don't think i'll just be flooring and spinning the tires.

Any help or additional tips would be great about the F30 on the track if possible! Thanks!
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      08-30-2020, 07:28 PM   #2
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Better pads and fluid. RBF or SRF will be fine. If you have the single piston brakes I suggest finding some of the stock Brembos from 6cyl F3x. They are 340mm rotors but more than enough.

If DSC is off then it will always go into comfort throttle and steering. DSC is still on in sport/+ just with higher thresholds. DSC off is the only time eLSD is on. It will eat your pads because it simulates an lsd by braking on one wheel.
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      08-30-2020, 07:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
Better pads and fluid. RBF or SRF will be fine. If you have the single piston brakes I suggest finding some of the stock Brembos from 6cyl F3x. They are 340mm rotors but more than enough.

If DSC is off then it will always go into comfort throttle and steering. DSC is still on in sport/+ just with higher thresholds. DSC off is the only time eLSD is on. It will eat your pads because it simulates an lsd by braking on one wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
Better pads and fluid. RBF or SRF will be fine. If you have the single piston brakes I suggest finding some of the stock Brembos from 6cyl F3x. They are 340mm rotors but more than enough.

If DSC is off then it will always go into comfort throttle and steering. DSC is still on in sport/+ just with higher thresholds. DSC off is the only time eLSD is on. It will eat your pads because it simulates an lsd by braking on one wheel.
Any suggestion on pads? I have the blue caliper 340/345 brake set up already. Stock pads for those aren't good enough for track use?

What is the general consensus on the mode to use? Seems like Sport+ off is the way to go since it'll probably not spin tires or eat the brakes? Or should I just disable the elsd and do dsc off?
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      09-25-2020, 05:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmwol2ks View Post
Any suggestion on pads? I have the blue caliper 340/345 brake set up already. Stock pads for those aren't good enough for track use?

What is the general consensus on the mode to use? Seems like Sport+ off is the way to go since it'll probably not spin tires or eat the brakes? Or should I just disable the elsd and do dsc off?
You can definitely still drive it with stock pads. They may last you most of a day depending how hard you are on brakes. You need to feel out the brakes as they will get worse as the day goes on and you'll need to change your braking points to brake earlier. But after a day, you will need to replace it. You will need pads that can handle higher temps than stock brakes eventually if you want to track with consistency.

The pad compounds are more important than the brake caliper and rotors for track use. You can get away with track pads on base 312 rotors and be fine on track. There is no need to spend a lot of money.

Autocross is not track, the speeds are lower and you are chewing up tires more than brakes at autocross. You will be fine with stock brakes at autocross. Overall consumables are much lower at autocross.
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      09-30-2020, 03:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmwol2ks View Post
Hi Everybody,

I picked up a 2016 328i for DD and occasional HDPE events (maybe 5 events of tracks/autox a year). I've done a handful of events with my other car (S2000) so I'm no stranger to the basics but i'm curious with everybody's experience with the F30 specifically. Will be putting on a set of Michelin PS4S for good DD and high performance use. I'm looking to use the car at the track for fun and not chasing down lap times. Mainly will just be taking the car to Thunderhill East/West and Laguna Seca. Was hoping to get some in the following topics:

Brakes:
I've read the threads and it seems like the M sport (blue caliper) brakes with OEM pads should do the job with high temp fluid. Going to be putting in RBF 600 or ATE Type 200. Will this be enough? (May just do RBF600 since laguna does require heavy braking)
Ferrodo DS 2500 pads for autox will be plenty. once they have a bit of heat, hold the eff on! and the heat range is very good so with the weight of the 328 you should be fine for HPDE. I have never been but i understand that laguna is hard on brakes so it be good to collect brake temps of what you have now to get an idea if this pad will meet the criteria...simple infrared gauge should do the trick.

The PS4S are a decent tire. Again the 328 is lighter so the Michelins should hold on track. Autox is a different story...the PS4S will not have enough time to get up to temp for max/optimal grip. You can still compete with them but they may wear out more quickly because they stay cold for most of the run so they slide around a bit reducing their life.

Last edited by brigade24; 09-30-2020 at 03:57 PM.. Reason: covid clarity
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      10-06-2020, 02:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmwol2ks View Post
Any suggestion on pads? I have the blue caliper 340/345 brake set up already. Stock pads for those aren't good enough for track use?

What is the general consensus on the mode to use? Seems like Sport+ off is the way to go since it'll probably not spin tires or eat the brakes? Or should I just disable the elsd and do dsc off?
theres not enough power to spin the tires, unless you do it on purpose or have really bad rubber. The times i have been to the track, i disable DSC all the way, which means no sport or sport+ and "elsd" is activated, you can still do one wheel peels on exit, but its better managed at least by the "elsd". Stock pads\discs where fine on small courses, just make sure you have fresh brake fluid, dont know how they would hold up on larger tracks like laguna, or extended lapping duration. I assume you have the msport package? the front bumper does divert some air to the front brakes, so that helps some in managing any overheating brakes somewhat.

I found that the car needs a little more camber from stock form to really dial in the front grip, and a square set of tires will help a lot with some of the existing understeer engineered into the car.

As for tires, I'm on the last bit of life of my michelin super sports and can confirm they take quite a bit of work to get up to temp, hope its a hot day lol, when they are cold and worn they have really bad grip, so dont go gunho until they are warmed up.
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      10-14-2020, 12:22 PM   #7
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Not to steal the thread, but has anyone dealt with the Zimmermann rotors that are slotted and dimpled on the track?
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      01-27-2021, 01:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brigade24 View Post

The PS4S are a decent tire. Again the 328 is lighter so the Michelins should hold on track. Autox is a different story...the PS4S will not have enough time to get up to temp for max/optimal grip. You can still compete with them but they may wear out more quickly because they stay cold for most of the run so they slide around a bit reducing their life.
I agree the PS4S are quite a good tire. Excellent in the rain. Running the RE-71R, the PS4S is only .75 seconds a lap slower.

But

Watch your tire pressure or you will kill the 4S. I killed two tires by chunking on 2 separate occasions. The first time was stubbornly refusing to accept the reality that as the tires heated and grip fell off I could drive my way out of the problem. The second time was just plain stupidity forgetting to check pressure. The lesson was finally learned and I have yet to kill any more 4S tires.

The normal pressure on the street I ran was mid-30s (e.g. 34 front, 36 rear). But, on the track, I had to drop the cold pressure to 30 front and 31 rear and the tires would still raise to 35 - 36 after 9-10 laps, a cool down lap, and drive back to the pits. Also, no shame in running a cooler lap or two depending on your track. I usually hit my best laps at the track I drive on lap 4-5. Then, lap times fall because the tires have begun to get overheated. I now run a cooler lap 6, followed by a hot 7/8. The cooler 6 lap allows for a faster 7/8, at least compared to driving the crap out of the tires from lap 1.
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      01-29-2021, 11:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmwol2ks View Post
Hi Everybody,

I picked up a 2016 328i for DD and occasional HDPE events (maybe 5 events of tracks/autox a year). I've done a handful of events with my other car (S2000) so I'm no stranger to the basics but i'm curious with everybody's experience with the F30 specifically. Will be putting on a set of Michelin PS4S for good DD and high performance use. I'm looking to use the car at the track for fun and not chasing down lap times. Mainly will just be taking the car to Thunderhill East/West and Laguna Seca. Was hoping to get some in the following topics:

Brakes:
I've read the threads and it seems like the M sport (blue caliper) brakes with OEM pads should do the job with high temp fluid. Going to be putting in RBF 600 or ATE Type 200. Will this be enough? (May just do RBF600 since laguna does require heavy braking)

Drive Mode:
Split between running Sport+ or Sport with DSC off? I read that the eLSD is only on when DSC is off but can ruin the tires faster because it'll cause it to spin more (i understand that this could be reduced by how you contol throttle)? Vs the Sport+ DSC is minimal which maybe good as well but then when DSC kicks it it wears the rear brakes more? I'm leaning towards to running Sport/DSC off since I do have some peddle control (modulating the peddle) and don't think i'll just be flooring and spinning the tires.

Any help or additional tips would be great about the F30 on the track if possible! Thanks!
Just to add another data point I swap in Pagids upfront and leave EBC yellows out back for track days. No braking issues with 340mm rotors. I'm an intermediate driver also coming from an s2000.

You'll find the torque of the n20 makes for an easier drive. The chassis is no s2000 but it responds to inputs. I run with esc off and never trigger the e-lsd with 255 summer tires.

Have fun out there. These cars are more capable then they appear. I ran similar lap times to my stock ap2 s2000 (although not nearly as engaging).
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