[motivman]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I dont have specifically recommendations on a clutch just do some research and read one of the many threads on that.

With 20+ psi you should be looking at a race IC, especially when you are pushing stock turbo out of its efficiency zone, and live in an already hot climate.

I didnt see any logs in 5th/6th, i would need to see a log that caused the CEL to come up.

So below are some third and fifth gear logs on the multimap stage 2+ tune. I think I am seeing clutch slip in every single log... can you verify this? Before taking these logs, I upgraded the manifold map sensor to 3.5 bar to see if that would help with the drivetrain malfunction I was getting whenever I went WOT in 5th or 6th gear. So now I have a 3.5bar both on the chargepipe and the manifold. On my first WOT pull, I got the drivetrain malfunction like usual. I pulled over, shut off and restarted the engine, then tried hard again to reproduce the error in 5th or 6th gear with multiple WOT pulls, but no more Drive train malfunction. Unfortunately, I didn't take a log on the first WOT pull I did in 5th to produce the drive train malfunction, but it seems like upgrading to a 3.5 bar MAP sensor on the manifold has at least taken care of that issue, even though I got it on my first WOT pull, couldn't reproduce it after that. When I was running the OEM MAP sensor on the manifold, I could reproduce the drive train malfunction 100% of the time. Looking at the logs, I am seeing as much as 22.8 PSI reaching the manifold... this can't be good for the stock turbo. Also, I noticed that the Manifold MAP sensor will not read anything higher than 22.8 PSI, even though its a 3.5 bar. Till I get a clutch upgrade, I do not think I would be running the stage 2+ tune, since it looks like my clutch is now slipping in 3rd and 4th also, did not do that before....

here are the specific codes:

121530 boost pressure, plausibility: pressure too high
120408 Charge Pressure Control, shutdown: pressure build-locked

5th gear logs

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e1d
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e1e
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...90c67aea378822
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e22
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b362aae101d

3rd Gear logs

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...90c67aea378878
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...729b36a7e45eae

3rd and 4th Gear log (M2 Stage 0+ stock map for comparison)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...729b36a7e45ec3
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...90c67a5b47eee0

I must say car is more enjoyable to drive on the Stage 0+ map... am I going crazy or something? haha....

[motivman]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Another vote for the VRSF/Race type intercooler. A Wagner Evo 1/2 will not do well in your climate and for what you're trying to do.

ER is also a solid choice.

honestly, I do not want to spend that much money on the ER again. Looking at the VRSF. Is this the one you are referring to? By how much do you think it will outperform my current Arm motorsports intercooler?

VRSF

https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-race-i...i-n20-n55.html

Arm Motorsports (My current IC)

https://www.armmotorsports.com/colle...tercooler-fmic

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by motivman

So below are some third and fifth gear logs on the multimap stage 2+ tune. I think I am seeing clutch slip in every single log... can you verify this? Before taking these logs, I upgraded the manifold map sensor to 3.5 bar to see if that would help with the drivetrain malfunction I was getting whenever I went WOT in 5th or 6th gear. So now I have a 3.5bar both on the chargepipe and the manifold. On my first WOT pull, I got the drivetrain malfunction like usual. I pulled over, shut off and restarted the engine, then tried hard again to reproduce the error in 5th or 6th gear with multiple WOT pulls, but no more Drive train malfunction. Unfortunately, I didn't take a log on the first WOT pull I did in 5th to produce the drive train malfunction, but it seems like upgrading to a 3.5 bar MAP sensor on the manifold has at least taken care of that issue, even though I got it on my first WOT pull, couldn't reproduce it after that. When I was running the OEM MAP sensor on the manifold, I could reproduce the drive train malfunction 100% of the time. Looking at the logs, I am seeing as much as 22.8 PSI reaching the manifold... this can't be good for the stock turbo. Also, I noticed that the Manifold MAP sensor will not read anything higher than 22.8 PSI, even though its a 3.5 bar. Till I get a clutch upgrade, I do not think I would be running the stage 2+ tune, since it looks like my clutch is now slipping in 3rd and 4th also, did not do that before....

here are the specific codes:

121530 boost pressure, plausibility: pressure too high
120408 Charge Pressure Control, shutdown: pressure build-locked

5th gear logs

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e1d
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e1e
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...90c67aea378822
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b36a7e45e22
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dc...729b362aae101d

3rd Gear logs

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...90c67aea378878
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...729b36a7e45eae

3rd and 4th Gear log (M2 Stage 0+ stock map for comparison)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...729b36a7e45ec3
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60dd...90c67a5b47eee0

I must say car is more enjoyable to drive on the Stage 0+ map... am I going crazy or something? haha....

Didnt look in detail at all of those but it definitely looks like clutch slip in some.

You aren't supposed to run a 3.5bar MAP in the manifold because there is no flash option for it, so you would need a custom tune for that to work properly. Right now the DME is probably getting an incorrect signal because it does not know its a 3.5bar sensor, it thinks its the stock one. That's also why its not reading over 22.8.

[motivman]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Didnt look in detail at all of those but it definitely looks like clutch slip in some.

You aren't supposed to run a 3.5bar MAP in the manifold because there is no flash option for it, so you would need a custom tune for that to work properly. Right now the DME is probably getting an incorrect signal because it does not know its a 3.5bar sensor, it thinks its the stock one. That's also why its not reading over 22.8.

There is an option in bootmod3 to toggle manifold sensor to 3.5 bar... when I installed the new sensor, and started the engine without reflashing with that option, I got a drive train malfunction almost right away, for manifold pressure too low. Toggled to 3.5 bar for manifold sensor in bm3 and reflashed, and Drive train malfunction went away. I also noticed that for the multimap stage 2+ tune specifically, pre throttle pressure does not surpass 23.2 PSI, so manifold pressure reading 22.8 PSI max now makes sense.. anyways, I am running away from this map... from the clutch slip, and the fact that up to 22.8 PSI reaches my manifold...I just don't think its safe to run the stock turbo at max capacity. I will revisit this map once I get a new intercooler, stage 2 clutch, and Pure stage 2 turbo.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by motivman

There is an option in bootmod3 to toggle manifold sensor to 3.5 bar... when I installed the new sensor, and started the engine without reflashing with that option, I got a drive train malfunction almost right away, for manifold pressure too low. Toggled to 3.5 bar for manifold sensor in bm3 and reflashed, and Drive train malfunction went away. I also noticed that for the multimap stage 2+ tune specifically, pre throttle pressure does not surpass 23.2 PSI, so manifold pressure reading 22.8 PSI max now makes sense.. anyways, I am running away from this map... from the clutch slip, and the fact that up to 22.8 PSI reaches my manifold...I just don't think its safe to run the stock turbo at max capacity. I will revisit this map once I get a new intercooler, stage 2 clutch, and Pure stage 2 turbo.

Oh, i didnt know that. Thought they only had to CP MAP option. Then it should work. Two other things - i recall someone else not being able to read over 22.8 PSI that was working with a custom tuner. Also, other people posted about the multimap running different than the normal stage 2+ map. But yeah, you shouldnt run the stage 2+ map at all until you upgrade the clutch.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by motivman

honestly, I do not want to spend that much money on the ER again. Looking at the VRSF. Is this the one you are referring to? By how much do you think it will outperform my current Arm motorsports intercooler?

VRSF

https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-race-i...i-n20-n55.html

Arm Motorsports (My current IC)

https://www.armmotorsports.com/colle...tercooler-fmic

By a significant margin.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

By a significant margin.

yeah, I need one of those lol

still trying to find a deal

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

yeah, I need one of those lol

still trying to find a deal

There really aren't too many. You can message Mike@N54Tuning.com to see what he has as far as deals go.

ER is also a great option - but it does cost more.

[5w20]

Originally Posted by motivman

honestly, I do not want to spend that much money on the ER again. Looking at the VRSF. Is this the one you are referring to? By how much do you think it will outperform my current Arm motorsports intercooler?

VRSF

https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-race-i...i-n20-n55.html

Arm Motorsports (My current IC)

https://www.armmotorsports.com/colle...tercooler-fmic

I'd suggest VRSF because it definitely seems to work. Here is a log of the 5" version on the stg2+ E30 map in "warm" weather. It shows to have been 75-84°F that day. Granted it's one gear, but the IAT starts off at 96°F and drops down to 94°F at the end of the pull. Being as this is only the 5" version, one would think the 6.5" version and the race would perform just as good or better in warmer temps.

[designatedposter]

motivman, i use the 335is/550i clutch on my m235i, no slips with the stage 2+ tune. i recommend it. feels 100% like stock.

unless you have an ethanol sensor, there isn't any benefit for you to run the multimap over the regular stage 2+ e30 map. you can simply pull the newest stage 2+ map and it will already have been converted to 'customrom' which gives you antilag.

and i agree with the m2 map.. i'm running it right now too and enjoy the car more . lets you have some fun revving it out.

do you have any logs where you shift 3 to 4? if so, please share, im doing some research. thanks

[motivman]

Originally Posted by 5w20

I'd suggest VRSF because it definitely seems to work. Here is a log of the 5" version on the stg2+ E30 map in "warm" weather. It shows to have been 75-84°F that day. Granted it's one gear, but the IAT starts off at 96°F and drops down to 94°F at the end of the pull. Being as this is only the 5" version, one would think the 6.5" version and the race would perform just as good or better in warmer temps.

oh wow, this confirms just how trash the arm motorports intercooler is... yeeeesh. Here is a pull on equivalent of Stage 2 93 octane... 96F outside... starts at 117, ends at 123F... not acceptable IMHO. Also since my M235i has a 13.7 gallon tank, how much E85 can I add to spice up the 93 octane a little bit and clean up my timings?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60de...729b27d088f719

[motivman]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

motivman, i use the 335is/550i clutch on my m235i, no slips with the stage 2+ tune. i recommend it. feels 100% like stock.

unless you have an ethanol sensor, there isn't any benefit for you to run the multimap over the regular stage 2+ e30 map. you can simply pull the newest stage 2+ map and it will already have been converted to 'customrom' which gives you antilag.

and i agree with the m2 map.. i'm running it right now too and enjoy the car more . lets you have some fun revving it out.

do you have any logs where you shift 3 to 4? if so, please share, im doing some research. thanks

wow great, this just confirms my decision to go with the 550i clutch. So you used this part exactly?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207603248

Did you keep your original DMFW or did you get a new one? my car only has 37K miles on it, and I want to keep my original flywheel, but the shop that is doing the work, recommends a new flywheel. The Luk flywheel looks to be out of stock, but I found another one, not sure if it will work.

In stock OEM DMFW, not sure if this will work

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207590942

Confirmed OEM DMFW that works, but seems to be Out of stock

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207640733

what else did you replace when you had the transmission out? thinking of doing a cdv delete, and replacing my clutch master cylinder.

Do you want a 3rd to 4th gear log on the m2 map? I can get that for you, once I take the car out later today.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by motivman

oh wow, this confirms just how trash the arm motorports intercooler is... yeeeesh. Here is a pull on equivalent of Stage 2 93 octane... 96F outside... starts at 117, ends at 123F... not acceptable IMHO. Also since my M235i has a 13.7 gallon tank, how much E85 can I add to spice up the 93 octane a little bit and clean up my timings?

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60de...729b27d088f719

A 6 degree increase in one gear isn't great, but it's not as bad as I would have thought. But yeah, you'll want a better intercooler.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by motivman

wow great, this just confirms my decision to go with the 550i clutch. So you used this part exactly?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207603248

Did you keep your original DMFW or did you get a new one? my car only has 37K miles on it, and I want to keep my original flywheel, but the shop that is doing the work, recommends a new flywheel. The Luk flywheel looks to be out of stock, but I found another one, not sure if it will work.

In stock OEM DMFW, not sure if this will work

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207590942

Confirmed OEM DMFW that works, but seems to be Out of stock

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...uk-21207640733

what else did you replace when you had the transmission out? thinking of doing a cdv delete, and replacing my clutch master cylinder.

Do you want a 3rd to 4th gear log on the m2 map? I can get that for you, once I take the car out later today.

yes, that's the clutch i bought. i also bought
clutch fork pivot https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...in-21511223328
crankshaft seal (did not replace since mine was not leaking.) https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...co-11117587168
e90 clutch slave cylinder to remove the clutch delay valve
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...te-21526785964
FCP sells bmw brake fluid pretty cheap, might as well pick that up too if you change the slave because you need to bleed clutch (same reservoir as brakes)
pressure plate screws
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ew-21207548052
[optional] OEM clutch release bearing because the mechanic claims that non-OEM units make noise. FYI, the clutch kit includes one, and by the looks of it, was really similar to the OEM one i bought..
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...rm-21517564027

i did NOT replace my stock DMFW, it was in good condition. too expensive an item for me to replace if not needed. LOL i also dont do WOT 5th and 6th with a slipping clutch if you can return an unused dmfw.. then certainly go ahead and have it on hand.

rumor has it that DMFW is supposed to be good for 2 clutches.

for the 3-4 gear change log, i'd prefer it on the stage 2 or 2+ maps.

[motivman]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

yes, that's the clutch i bought. i also bought
clutch fork pivot https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...in-21511223328
crankshaft seal (did not replace since mine was not leaking.) https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...co-11117587168
e90 clutch slave cylinder to remove the clutch delay valve
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...te-21526785964
FCP sells bmw brake fluid pretty cheap, might as well pick that up too if you change the slave because you need to bleed clutch (same reservoir as brakes)
pressure plate screws
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ew-21207548052
[optional] OEM clutch release bearing because the mechanic claims that non-OEM units make noise. FYI, the clutch kit includes one, and by the looks of it, was really similar to the OEM one i bought..
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...rm-21517564027

i did NOT replace my stock DMFW, it was in good condition. too expensive an item for me to replace if not needed. LOL i also dont do WOT 5th and 6th with a slipping clutch if you can return an unused dmfw.. then certainly go ahead and have it on hand.

rumor has it that DMFW is supposed to be good for 2 clutches.

for the 3-4 gear change log, i'd prefer it on the stage 2 or 2+ maps.

haha, I was testing 5th and 6th gear pulls because I wasn't sure what was causing the hesitation at the time, after I flashed the stage 2+ tune. Stage 2 E30 works beautifully, so was not sure why stage 2+ was acting up. Plus I dropped all that money on a dorch stage 2 HPFP just so I could run stage 2+....Never did it occur to me that my clutch was slipping, I was chasing boost leaks, etc... SMH. I know better now, not touching any of the e30 maps till I get that new clutch in. For now, I will stick to the 0+ map... its more enjoyable to me than the stage 2 regular gas tunes. I did a 3 to 4th gear pull for you on the equivalent of the M2 tune... sorry, couldn't log gear 4 more, I got to really high speeds, and didn't want to get a reckless driving ticket, haha. it was 100F outside... typical texas weather

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60de...729b27d088f797

NB: just noticed you want one for stage 2, I will try to do another one for you sometime later today or tomorrow. Do you want stage 2 e30 or stage 2 91 or 93? right now I have 93 in the tank (almost full tank), if you want e30, It will take a little more time, so I can run down my 93 gas. As of right now, my clutch does not slip on the stage 2 e30 map at all....


also, do you remember if your DMFW was resurfaced or just cleaned?

[motivman]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

yes, that's the clutch i bought. i also bought
clutch fork pivot https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...in-21511223328
crankshaft seal (did not replace since mine was not leaking.) https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...co-11117587168
e90 clutch slave cylinder to remove the clutch delay valve
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...te-21526785964
FCP sells bmw brake fluid pretty cheap, might as well pick that up too if you change the slave because you need to bleed clutch (same reservoir as brakes)
pressure plate screws
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ew-21207548052
[optional] OEM clutch release bearing because the mechanic claims that non-OEM units make noise. FYI, the clutch kit includes one, and by the looks of it, was really similar to the OEM one i bought..
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...rm-21517564027

i did NOT replace my stock DMFW, it was in good condition. too expensive an item for me to replace if not needed. LOL i also dont do WOT 5th and 6th with a slipping clutch if you can return an unused dmfw.. then certainly go ahead and have it on hand.

rumor has it that DMFW is supposed to be good for 2 clutches.

for the 3-4 gear change log, i'd prefer it on the stage 2 or 2+ maps.

Full 3rd to 4th gear pull below. My final conclusion? This Arm motorsports intercooler ain't cutting it, it gotta go. What intercooler are you running? I think I will go big or go home, getting ER intercooler like I had on my 228i... 38F rise from 3rd to 4th gear is not acceptable....

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60de...90c64b5bb3dc96

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by motivman

Full 3rd to 4th gear pull below. My final conclusion? This Arm motorsports intercooler ain't cutting it, it gotta go. What intercooler are you running? I think I will go big or go home, getting ER intercooler like I had on my 228i... 38F rise from 3rd to 4th gear is not acceptable....

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60de...90c64b5bb3dc96

Consider the 6.5'' VRSF

[designatedposter]

Thanks for the logs. I was interested in the dme behavior post shift, so no need to Rev 4th all the way out!

I'm running the original vrsf 5 inch, and wmi. I'm pretty sure the new 5 inch have greater fin density. In regular driving, iat about 10 to 15 over ambient. If i get on it, wmi brings it down but if I do pulls, I'm still rising a few degrees

[motivman]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Consider the 6.5'' VRSF

Hey, So Arm motorsports sent me a "revised" intercooler... Apparently, they revised their intercooler right after I bought my original one. big improvement... I went from a 38F rise on a full 3rd to 4th gear pull, to only a 7C rise!!!!! My VRSF race intercooler just got delivered today, wondering if I would see an improvement with the VRSF? weather was about 94F outside during this pull.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60e7...729b3d56b4aceb

thejeremyman9 , what do you think? should I keep the revised arm intercooler or pop in the VRSF race?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by motivman

Hey, So Arm motorsports sent me a "revised" intercooler... Apparently, they revised their intercooler right after I bought my original one. big improvement... I went from a 38F rise on a full 3rd to 4th gear pull, to only a 7C rise!!!!! My VRSF race intercooler just got delivered today, wondering if I would see an improvement with the VRSF? weather was about 94F outside during this pull.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60e7...729b3d56b4aceb

thejeremyman9 , what do you think? should I keep the revised arm intercooler or pop in the VRSF race?

Reviewed the log - it goes from 118F to 111F in 3rd - which is good,
Then it goes from 111F to 125F in 4th - Which is not good.

Can you show me the revised intercooler? How does it look and how many fins? How much does it weigh?

I can conclusively say that based on what I'm seeing so far, the Race Intercooler would be better.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by motivman

Hey, So Arm motorsports sent me a "revised" intercooler... Apparently, they revised their intercooler right after I bought my original one. big improvement... I went from a 38F rise on a full 3rd to 4th gear pull, to only a 7C rise!!!!! My VRSF race intercooler just got delivered today, wondering if I would see an improvement with the VRSF? weather was about 94F outside during this pull.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60e7...729b3d56b4aceb

thejeremyman9 , what do you think? should I keep the revised arm intercooler or pop in the VRSF race?

what did you pay for the race intercooler?

I'll buy it maybe if you don't use it

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by motivman

Hey, So Arm motorsports sent me a "revised" intercooler... Apparently, they revised their intercooler right after I bought my original one. big improvement... I went from a 38F rise on a full 3rd to 4th gear pull, to only a 7C rise!!!!! My VRSF race intercooler just got delivered today, wondering if I would see an improvement with the VRSF? weather was about 94F outside during this pull.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60e7...729b3d56b4aceb

thejeremyman9 , what do you think? should I keep the revised arm intercooler or pop in the VRSF race?

So i took a little closer look at the log and some of my most recent ones. It looks like even my 5'' VRSF HD performs better.

For example, one of my top speed run logs (sorry its long, logged the whole thing to make a video, but turn on accel position and you can see toward the end). I went WOT for 30 seconds and went from 93F to 113F, so about 20F rise in 30s, albeit it higher speeds (better to keep IC cooler). https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/2...data=2-4-10-21

(Top speed this run 177 mph )

Another example, 5-6th gear pull, WOT 14 seconds, 14F rise in IATs: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/5...data=0-4-10-21

Another example, 1-4th gear pull from a dig. You can see that, because i was sitting stopped before the pull, IAT actually ends lower than it started (goes down and back up a little): https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...0&data=4-10-21

So yeah, i have no doubt the 6.5'' will be better than your current IC. I even considered going to a 6.5'' myself but don't feel the need yet since im still on stock HPFP and mine is "good enough".