[sheepboy]

Originally Posted by Touring

Why is more i3s sold in Norway than Tesla S?

Apples and oranges. Different price points, different vehicles.

Nissan Leaf and VW e-Golf, closer in price to the i3, are outselling BMW by a lot in Norway. BMW has been trying to sell more i3s in Norway by pricing it very close to the LEAF. So far, people seem to like Nissan better...

I have a feeling that once Tesla starts shipping Model 3s to Norway in large numbers, Nissan will take a big hit and the i3 will see even lower sales.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Touring

Why is more i3s sold in Norway than Tesla S?

Smaller city car with a much better price point.

Go figure.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

Dear Sir, I work in the automotive industry and have attended numerous powertrain as well as EV congresses and keynotes from suppliers, manufacturers etc. The current battery technology is not the right solution - but you'll see once you dig deeper.

I had the possibility to drive them all - Model S, X and 3 as well as the BMW hybrids or i3. I think it is something that you can use in the city, because you have the infrastructure and everything else. But please dont tell me that China, India or Brazil will have an infrastructure ready for EV in, lets say 10 years. Even the US is struggling.

I don't know what you want to tell me with "when it is fine for the US, it definitely is for most of Europe" but that's definitely a sentence that only a US citizen can say. As much as I love the US, many people there are diluted. For the most part, the US is no half as much developed as Europe. A country without any regulations for cars NOx or CO2 emissions, neither have something like TÜV (which allows the car every 2 to 3 years to be in good condition to drive on these roads) can't be the standard.

I am excited for the Porsche project. But the car will be so much more advanced from a EV-powertrain perspective than the Tesla, it is even hard to compare.

When I said fine for most, I meant with regard to range.

Also, the US does have regulations for NOx emissions, which is why we don't poison ourselves with diesel smog like you do.

We can come revisit this in 10 years and see who was correct .

Blackberry and Microsoft executives initially laughed at Apple entering the phone industry, and we see where that's gone now... Sometimes being part of an industry just means you're in a cognitive blind spot.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Touring

Why is more i3s sold in Norway than Tesla S?

The i3 is ugly as hell and pretty much sucks. They can barely give them away in the US. The only reason is anyone would buy one over a Tesla is price.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Not really.

The Tesla is terrible in cold weather here. People can't even get in their model 3 because of the handles.

The build quality of Tesla is also terrible, 2 years in and the interior is already falling apart.

Other than the door handle problems (which hasn't been an issue for my friend on his S) the few people I know in the Northeast with a Tesla actually love them for winter use. Instantly warm and ready to go. The best traction control in the business, and excellent traction with proper tires due to the weight.

They have a lot of work to do to catch up to the fit-and-finish of BMW in some cases, it is true. I would ask yourself this question though - which is easier:

Fixing panel gaps and interior quality? Or, steering a conservative German automotive company to embrace a new paradigm and successfully lead in EVs?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by chris719

Other than the door handle problems (which hasn't been an issue for my friend on his S) the few people I know in the Northeast with a Tesla actually love them for winter use. Instantly warm and ready to go. The best traction control in the business, and excellent traction with proper tires due to the weight.

They have a lot of work to do to catch up to the fit-and-finish of BMW in some cases, it is true. I would ask yourself this question though - which is easier:

Fixing panel gaps and interior quality? Or, steering a conservative German automotive company to embrace a new paradigm and successfully lead in EVs?

I mean if it were up to me I wouldn't want EVs.

But if I had to choose in the future... I would probably avoid Tesla to be honest. But we don't know what the future is.

Tesla are the first major ones, not necessarily the best ones.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by chris719

Other than the door handle problems (which hasn't been an issue for my friend on his S) the few people I know in the Northeast with a Tesla actually love them for winter use. Instantly warm and ready to go.

This. Having a warm car in two minutes instead of 5-7 as it is with any non-EV is priceless. And somehow the seats also warm up in half the time, even though it's electric heaters either way.

But I did have a window get stuck a few days ago. The door opened anyway but I had to push the glass down so I could close the door properly.

[Ras550]

Originally Posted by chris719

When I said fine for most, I meant with regard to range.

Also, the US does have regulations for NOx emissions, which is why we don't poison ourselves with diesel smog like you do.

We can come revisit this in 10 years and see who was correct .

Blackberry and Microsoft executives initially laughed at Apple entering the phone industry, and we see where that's gone now... Sometimes being part of an industry just means you're in a cognitive blind spot.

So true - people in the automotive industry have the biggest blind spots.

BTW those people saying Europeans don't want Teslas should look at this -

I was a BMW owner for 15 years (E39 540i, E46 330Ci ZHP and E90 335i) and converted instantly to Tesla after test driving a Model 3 performance. It is so far ahead of BMW in everything you can imagine
- Performance + handling (Beating Ferrari 458 on a track - no BMW I know of came even close)
- Exterior and interior design (very spaceship like - miles ahead of any ICE manufacturer). I have the 3 in white interior and no 3 or 5 even comes close.
- Then you add on the best ever safety scores (highest safety rating of any car EVER tested by the NHTSA) or
- the Autopilot tech which gets better every day

The list goes on. BMW, and every other ICE manufacturer is so far behind, it's not even funny.

And while BMW and others are trying to catchup, Tesla is moving forward more aggressively. Anything other than a full commitment to EVs right away means BMW will never catch up to Tesla. The play it safe strategy is NOT going to work.

We technically still have a BMW in the family - my wife's Mini Cooper S. Based on BMW's current direction, it could very well be the last.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Ras550

So true - people in the automotive industry have the biggest blind spots.

BTW those people saying Europeans don't want Teslas should look at this -

I was a BMW owner for 15 years (E39 540i, E46 330Ci ZHP and E90 335i) and converted instantly to Tesla after test driving a Model 3 performance. It is so far ahead of BMW in everything you can imagine
- Performance + handling (Beating Ferrari 458 on a track - no BMW I know of came even close)
- Exterior and interior design (very spaceship like - miles ahead of any ICE manufacturer). I have the 3 in white interior and no 3 or 5 even comes close.
- Then you add on the best ever safety scores (highest safety rating of any car EVER tested by the NHTSA) or
- the Autopilot tech which gets better every day

The list goes on. BMW, and every other ICE manufacturer is so far behind, it's not even funny.

And while BMW and others are trying to catchup, Tesla is moving forward more aggressively. Anything other than a full commitment to EVs right away means BMW will never catch up to Tesla. The play it safe strategy is NOT going to work.

We technically still have a BMW in the family - my wife's Mini Cooper S. Based on BMW's current direction, it could very well be the last.

Woah there. I'm happy to give credit where it is due, but it cannot touch a Ferrari 458 on any real track. I don't know what kind of "test" this was. Maybe an autocross.

I am also not sure spaceship like means the interior is better than a 5...

Also, I really fing hate that Tesla fans call it an M3. That was already taken by a legend in 1985.

I think the Tesla Model 3 is a real danger to standard 3 series sales, but I would not have one over a (real) M3 yet.

[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by chris719

When I said fine for most, I meant with regard to range.

Also, the US does have regulations for NOx emissions, which is why we don't poison ourselves with diesel smog like you do.

We can come revisit this in 10 years and see who was correct .

Blackberry and Microsoft executives initially laughed at Apple entering the phone industry, and we see where that's gone now... Sometimes being part of an industry just means you're in a cognitive blind spot.

Jesus, there is no way in this world where it makes sense to discuss things with you. Please go ahead and check the emissions of modern diesels. Lord have mercy. I don't want to offend you, but PLEASE get your facts straight about todays diesel engines.

If you think that the automotive industry and Tesla is as disruptive as Apple in the phone industry, please think again and check how high the barrier is to mass produce cars. Tesla is struggling with that and no one in Europe has yet received a Model 3 after all those promises. The automotive industry is one of the most difficult industries to keep up with and to "get in". In no way comparable to building phones. Tesla has absolutely no advantage at all and we all see how this figures out.

Did you knew that GB is only able to produce 5% more energy than actually needed? With that being said, how about electrifying the whole country and see where that goes...

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by chris719

You're 100% right. People also don't understand that Tesla is a software and electronics company.

They have achieved a lot of great things with their software. Their traction control is so much better than the rest of the automotive industry it is crazy. The feedback loop is much tighter, you can slam your foot to the floor in any Tesla and you get the maximum acceleration the surface allows, every time.

They write all their software in house and their development process is of a software company, not a rigid automotive company. The Germans outsource most core stuff to the likes of Bosch, and the Japanese OEMs are just terrible at it.

I guess the others are worse, but did you see https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskS...bout_problems/ ?

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by Miko M

I love Bmw's but Tesla is ahead of everyone

Let's be real!

I work from home and my wife commutes 8 kms each way for work.
Who cares about 200 vs 300 range...
that only matters once a quarter for our family and we can stop for coffee, family time, and a charge as required.

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by scrammer

Let's be real!

I work from home and my wife commutes 8 kms each way for work.
Who cares about 200 vs 300 range...
that only matters once a quarter for our family and we can stop for coffee, family time, and a charge as required.

About Tesla being ahead from everyone is not only about range!!!
In general technology #1... way ahead.

I am not trying to say BMW is not good, in fact I am biggest BMW fan on this forum.
I owned 4 M3/4 and 2 X5/6M and now M5 In last 5 years alone. And I will always own BMW
But as far as technology and performance goes Tesla is a bit ahead, I am sure BMW will catch sooner or later.

[palpatine_us]

In 3 years, BMW MIGHT have a viable electric car that can compete with a current Model 3. Who knows where Tesla will be in 3 years?

Currently:
i3- no competition
i8- too expensive
ipace- lower range

We keep waiting for a ICE firm to knock off Tesla. It might happen- just not in the foreseeable future.

[sheepboy]

Originally Posted by palpatine_us

In 3 years, BMW MIGHT have a viable electric car that can compete with a current Model 3. Who knows where Tesla will be in 3 years?

Currently:
i3- no competition
i8- too expensive
ipace- lower range

We keep waiting for a ICE firm to knock off Tesla. It might happen- just not in the foreseeable future.

i8 doesn't belong in this list as it is a hybrid. "Born electric" was a horrible marketing campaign and the sales numbers show it...

[sheepboy]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Not really.

The Tesla is terrible in cold weather here. People can't even get in their model 3 because of the handles.

The build quality of Tesla is also terrible, 2 years in and the interior is already falling apart.

Do you own a Tesla? Have you driven one during the winter?

Going into my third New England winter with Model X. No major issues here. I actually prefer to drive the Model X than my two ICEs around as I can pre-heat the cabin from the app and have a toasty car to walk into every time, anywhere. You can't do this with any ICE.

I am not sure about BMW SUVs, but I can heat all 7 seats and keep everyone happy. When it snows, I just pre-heat the car and it essentially melts away. Heated mirrors, heated windshield wipers. Heated steering wheel, the entire circumference, not just the places where you usually grab it, like most other cars.

Not sure what makes Tesla "terrible in cold weather". Definitely not my Tesla...

As far as interior quality, mine is just fine. Expected wear and tear. Same as my Mercedes and Bimmer.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

Jesus, there is no way in this world where it makes sense to discuss things with you. Please go ahead and check the emissions of modern diesels. Lord have mercy. I don't want to offend you, but PLEASE get your facts straight about todays diesel engines.

If you think that the automotive industry and Tesla is as disruptive as Apple in the phone industry, please think again and check how high the barrier is to mass produce cars. Tesla is struggling with that and no one in Europe has yet received a Model 3 after all those promises. The automotive industry is one of the most difficult industries to keep up with and to "get in". In no way comparable to building phones. Tesla has absolutely no advantage at all and we all see how this figures out.

Did you knew that GB is only able to produce 5% more energy than actually needed? With that being said, how about electrifying the whole country and see where that goes...

You're the one that needs to get their facts straight. Clearly the US has strict NOx standards, you can find them for yourself. Euro6 is just catching up.

There's a reason US cities don't have smog like Paris since CARB cleaned up LA.

Diesels are dirtier, period, end of story. I'm sorry you're a diesel nuthugger that denies reality.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...llution-study/

[Mirrari]

Originally Posted by chris719

The i3 is ugly as hell and pretty much sucks. They can barely give them away in the US. The only reason is anyone would buy one over a Tesla is price.

We have both a model 3 and an i3. I honestly prefer driving the i3, that giant iPad bugs me every time I look at it. It’s way more maneuverable in town and can u-turn in no space at all. Range never matters as my commute is only about 50 miles

[Imola.ZHP]

This site never fails to deliver... so many experts here that have probably never driven electric.

The i3 is an A M A Z I N G vehicle, if you dismiss it on looks alone then you probably don't like hatches or wagons in general and this is where you disagree with the i3, not based on its performance.

Range is for Range Queens, if I had a gigantic battery in a car that means I would be able to charge less often, wow, how amazing. There is only a very small percentage of people that NEED long range EV's, if thats you then this message isn't for you. For everyone else, you can pick up i3's for under $20k used, which is INSANE for a carbon fiber passenger cell on aluminum frame car that will put a smile on your face every time you jump in it and take it for a drive.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

Jesus, there is no way in this world where it makes sense to discuss things with you. Please go ahead and check the emissions of modern diesels. Lord have mercy. I don't want to offend you, but PLEASE get your facts straight about todays diesel engines.

If you think that the automotive industry and Tesla is as disruptive as Apple in the phone industry, please think again and check how high the barrier is to mass produce cars. Tesla is struggling with that and no one in Europe has yet received a Model 3 after all those promises. The automotive industry is one of the most difficult industries to keep up with and to "get in". In no way comparable to building phones. Tesla has absolutely no advantage at all and we all see how this figures out.

Did you knew that GB is only able to produce 5% more energy than actually needed? With that being said, how about electrifying the whole country and see where that goes...

More facts to help with your denial:

https://waqi.info/

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-eu-air...standards.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8591641.html

https://e360.yale.edu/features/end-o...-out-in-europe

[sheepboy]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

This site never fails to deliver... so many experts here that have probably never driven electric.

The i3 is an A M A Z I N G vehicle, if you dismiss it on looks alone then you probably don't like hatches or wagons in general and this is where you disagree with the i3, not based on its performance.

Range is for Range Queens, if I had a gigantic battery in a car that means I would be able to charge less often, wow, how amazing. There is only a very small percentage of people that NEED long range EV's, if thats you then this message isn't for you. For everyone else, you can pick up i3's for under $20k used, which is INSANE for a carbon fiber passenger cell on aluminum frame car that will put a smile on your face every time you jump in it and take it for a drive.

When I first decided to buy an electric car, I test drove the i3 because I am a huge BMW fan. Design and looks aside, it is quite a mediocre car, IMHO. The suicide doors are hideous and impractical. Poor range. Underwhelming performance. Interior looks cheap, especially for the price.

Now, this was before Tesla had even unveiled a Model 3 prototype. The Model 3 is much better than the i3 in every measurable way: range, performance, interior design, features, range, supercharger network. Looks are subjective, but I would say the Model 3 is way better looking than the i3.

Is a $20k used i3 a good deal? Maybe for some people. Would it put a smile on my face every time I took for a drive? It did not during the test drive. I doubt it would in real life.

The fact that BMW is almost giving those things away whereas Tesla can't make enough Model 3s to satisfy demand is a good surrogate on how people feel about those two cars.

[Imola.ZHP]

Originally Posted by sheepboy

When I first decided to buy an electric car, I test drove the i3 because I am a huge BMW fan. Design and looks aside, it is quite a mediocre car, IMHO. The suicide doors are hideous and impractical. Poor range. Underwhelming performance. Interior looks cheap, especially for the price.

Now, this was before Tesla had even unveiled a Model 3 prototype. The Model 3 is much better than the i3 in every measurable way: range, performance, interior design, features, range, supercharger network. Looks are subjective, but I would say the Model 3 is way better looking than the i3.

Is a $20k used i3 a good deal? Maybe for some people. Would it put a smile on my face every time I took for a drive? It did not during the test drive. I doubt it would in real life.

The fact that BMW is almost giving those things away whereas Tesla can't make enough Model 3s to satisfy demand is a good surrogate on how people feel about those two cars.

Hilarious response, typical Tesla fanatic response.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid, also, your on the wrong car forum. The Tesla circle jerk is on the Tesla forums.