[casualDIYer]

NOTE: The following is not professional nor official BMW advice. It is a diary of how I solved a problem with my car. Use at your own risk

Like many e46, e90, and f30 sedan owners, my shadowline equipped 340i sedan, barely 4 years old, began its eventual decline into a creakbox from hell some time ago. Primarily the rear doors, occasionally the fronts, the situation worsened as summer began, with temps moving up to roughly 32C. Having dealt with the issue previously on both an e46 and gen 1 f30 I knew that getting the seals replaced was going to be a significant challenge as a DIY, and an expensive trip if done by the dealer. Even an indie shop would cost hundreds of dollars for what should be a dozens of dollars repair.

I started with the cheapest solutions, cleaning the seals, applying a sealant, using some knock-off teflon tape, which turned into a sticky mess, requiring Goo Gone and a lot of patience to get rid of. Solutions would work for a day or two, then the creak-a-thon would start up. For a moment I wondered if $300 for magical 3M clear Teflon tape might be worth it, but at that price, might as well get the seals re-done. I found a thread on Bimmerpost talking about how BMW had abandoned gummi pflege on door seals because of silicone content and wondered where I might get some silicone remover. BMW sells such a product at an almost ‘normal’ price (~$11), which I bought and tried. At first it seemed to work but after a day, it too failed. Next I decided I’d go for BMW’s Carbaflo KSP 105. The magic ‘stick’ would be a wallet draining $70+, which itself isn’t a lot of money for car maintenance, but for slippery goo, it seemed somewhat excessive. Applying it to the frequently mentioned bottom portion of the flocking material gasket (the outer most gasket the runs only on top of the door) and to the shadowline itself, all doors went quiet except one. The HMS Creaks-a-lot continued to groan as if it were a tail ship sailing the Atlantic, not a luxury sedan plying the streets of suburban Canada. I thought, either figure out the problem or sell the damn car. This is ridiculous.

Looking at the door, I couldn’t quite understand why the flocking material gasket would cause so much squeaking against the frame. It’s not uncommon for cars to use rubber seals with painted door frames. I noticed at the top of the door the inner door gasket and flocking material gasket clearly had to rub against each other when the door was closed. Perhaps this was the cause? I focused cleaning the area between the two seals. On the squeakiest door my microfibre got quite dirty cleaning with water alone.



When no more dirt could be cleaned from between the two seals, I cleaned the top and edge of all seals, including the main seal around the door, the flocking material seal, and the chassis side seal. I also cleaned the shadowline frame (on the door entrance) with water and a microfibre. Once a cleaning was done with water and my microfibre stop turning black, all seals and the shadowline frame were cleaned again with BMW’s silicone remover. if you are curious why water was used initially and not a cleaner, this was done to make sure I wasn't adding new chemicals (either than water) to the materials involved.



KSP 105 was then applied between the seals. Using a gloved finger, Carbaflo (KSP 105) was spread between the seals. It is important that all surfaces where the seals come into contact with each other are lubricated. KSP was not applied to the shadowline frame that runs along the top of the door frame (on the chassis, not the door itself) nor other seals. It was only applied between the seals at the top of the door as that is the only location where two rubber seals will actually rub against each other. Upon application, creaking from any door, especially the rear door, came to a complete stop. Good-bye creaky doors!



Testing has only gone on for a couple of days but hoping this will finally fix the problem for more than a few weeks. It may not fix all cars, but it may fix yours. It will certainly be cheaper than changing cars.

Now it’s on to fixing the rattling the splash shield. It makes the door problem seem simple.

[casualDIYer]

An update

The creaking went away for a while, then came back. Just as bad. It seems as the summer heat rises the creaking goes into hyper creak mode. It may be the car is cursed to be a shrieking creakbox from hell but before I totally give up and buy 4 new seals (at $125 Canuk bucks each) + $100 for the mysterious G14 lubricant and do it myself I just can't give up just yet.

I had considered getting the dealer to do it but they quoted me $500 a door. $2 grand for door seals? BMW has made many mistakes (like the hideous nose of the G80/82) but 2000 bucks for seals is really over the top. I guess they have so many customers they need to get rid of a few so maybe it does make sense.

What's the deal with the seals?
IF the seals were made exclusively of EPDM (ethylene propylene diene monomer) they can be lubed with anything from a cheap can of silicone lube for $8 at the autoparts store to high tech crap you can find for $50/ml. But the seals are made of EPDM + TPE (thermoplastic elasomer). Silicone will degrade TPE so do not use it. Try typing TPE into your favourite web search site and you'll find a surprise and quickly understand why silicone is not / not a lubricant for TPE but coconut oil is.



I decided to lube the back side of the seal (as in the part of the seal that fits inside the channel of the door meant to hold the seal in place) using Carbaflo, a EPDM + TPE approved lubricant. Without taking the seal completely off the door, I pulled out the top most part and lubed that.

Do not / not use metal tools for this work. One slip could be very costly. A door repair kit, made of nylon and often sold where you find car audio systems, is cheap and is designed for this kind of work. Find it on Amazon as well. $10 is not an uncommon price for these tools.

1. Roll down all windows. Note for the rear door, because you cannot roll down the quarter window, attempts to pull out the seal over the quarter window will be difficult. In my case, I did not / not remove that part of the seal. The creaking is heard mainly at the top of the door so only that part was pulled out and lubed. Additionally the vertical part of the seal on the rear door (on the hinge side of the door) is affixed with 2-sided tape (I was told) so I did not/not attempt to pull out the seal there. I only pulled out the top part of the seal between the two finishers of the rear door. With the front door, a lot of the seal can be pulled out between the top corner of the mirror and the top corner of the door at the finisher (nearest the B-pillar).

2. Pry the seal up then outward. You will feel it clear a little metal lip then start to move out the metal door channel it is press-fit into. If you wanted to remove the entire seal, on the rear doors, both finishers need to be removed. On the front door, the finisher and the mirror need to be removed. Since the squealing is mostly the top of the door I only pulled out that part of the seal, leaving a third to a half of it still in the door channel




3. With the seal pulled out, lube the back of the seal (i.e. the portion that was press-fit into the channel). The dispenser of the carbaflo tube won't fit into tight spaces so smear the back of the seal, then used a gloved finger to get the carbaflo into any portion missed by the dispenser.



Once completely lubed press-fit the seal back into the door channel and pull the seal over it's metal lip. Because you have not removed the entire seal you will see whether you've got the seal properly fit or not.

4. The final, very / very important step (once the seal is press-fit back into the channel) is to lube the seal (left and right) where the glass passes through it. This function of this part is to act as a Window Channel so lube the channel. My advice is to first clean the channel with silicone remover (mentioned above) then lube with carbaflo. I also very slightly lubed the seal next to the flocking material on my second try (I did not lube this on my first try) and, very important, lubed between the door and chassis seal (shown in the first post). Rubber squeaks against rubber. Give the carbaflo 20 minutes to dry, roll up the windows, test drive.



This technique has eliminated creak. I have a feeling it will come back though. I suspect Carbaflo may be slightly water soluble (to maintain TPE compatibility) and will wash away over time. I have ordered Krytox as a backup since it is both EPDM and TPE compatible but I may leave that to only the inside of the seal. I don't want anyone touching teflon if they touch the door.

[KarimS]

I feel your pain. Honestly, if someone's buying a BMW, they should know this going in. Interior build quality is the worst part of BMW ownership, and pretty much nothing can be done. It bothered me too at first, when you accept the reality that the car is just built and shipped this way, you learn to live with it. It's just the reality.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by KarimS

I feel your pain. Honestly, if someone's buying a BMW, they should know this going in. Interior build quality is the worst part of BMW ownership, and pretty much nothing can be done. It bothered me too at first, when you accept the reality that the car is just built and shipped this way, you learn to live with it. It's just the reality.

Fortunately the problem is not universal. Coupes seem to be free of the issue. I hear the 5 series does get the problem but not as often as the 3 series. The M3 also gets the problem but not to the same degree.

As for the solution, after applying carbaflo to the window channel, the creaking went away, then 24 hrs later, came back. Carbaflo was applied again, and this time most of the creaking went away. It may be carbaflo is slightly water soluble (to be TPE compatible) and hence may be affected by humidity. I look forward to testing Krytox to see if the issue will be resolved.

[KarimS]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

Fortunately the problem is not universal. Coupes seem to be free of the issue. I hear the 5 series does get the problem but not as often as the 3 series. The M3 also gets the problem but not to the same degree.

From what I've seen, this issue least presents itself in the higher-end models. 1/2/3/4 series are basically guaranteed to have it, lesser on 5/6, and almost never on 7/8. Same for the X.

[casualDIYer]

Went ahead and tried Krytox. It does work but only for a little while. It seems if the window guides are exposed to silicone, it seems the TPE in them will begin to break down. The only option now is replacement and the use of G14. I will go this route but may take a break until the spring. As the weather gets colder, the problem seems to diminish, or at least is quieter.

[casualDIYer]

So, another year, and another summer of creakiness fired up around May 2022. As June approached, and temps started to get to 25C+, the creak-machine got so bad even people who had been in the car for the first time noticed the creakiness. Since I had already doused the guides with every imaginable anti-squeak chemical known to mankind in the 20th + 21st century, time to swap.

Bought 4 new guides (CAD $130 each) and the dealership sold me a small portion of G14, the only chemical BMW currently authorizes for installation of these guides, for $10. Installed with a friend.

GONE GONE GONE and GONE. No creaks at all. Dead silence. My God that was quite an adventure but well worth it. The most satisfying car repair ever. I thought re-install would be hell, but I had a friend who had quite a bit of experience to help so it went smoothly and completed in roughly 2 hrs for all 4 doors. It was a miracle.

I was tempted to go out and hug a tree but instead opted to drive by a bunch of Global Warming protesters . . . in silence. Glorious silence.

Part numbers for my F30 (2017 340i xDrive)
Window Guide, left front door 51-33-7-414-531
Window Guide, right front door 51-33-7-414-532
Window Guide, left rear door 51-35-7-414-533
Window Guide, right rear door 51-35-7-414-534

The magic lubricant is called G14, BMW part no: 83-23-2-360-412

Use G14. There are no alternatives. Trust me, I've tried them all. Ask your BMW dealer for a small amount. I got 100ml of the stuff and ended up using roughly half.

[sbryan]

My car creeks like crazy, definitely need to do this. Thanks for the post.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by sbryan

My car creeks like crazy, definitely need to do this. Thanks for the post.

If the dealer is quoting you some ridiculous number for the repair, try a body shop. Two hours per door? What is BMW doing? Reassembling the rear end of the car?

[casualDIYer]

FYI, been about a year since the last post and replacement of the window guides (a.k.a seal, which actually isn't a seal but a guide) which silenced the problem. But now, a year later, the creaking has returned. It's not excessive but in hot and humid weather, it can be heard. So, whatever chemicals are contained in the guides seem to take about a year to out-gas and change the nature of the guides just enough to begin the process. They may also collected a significant amount of dirt as I rarely touched them when they were silent.

Common elements to creakiness in many BMWs using identical guides (note that in the G20, the guides now include flocking material not just on their upper edge but on the entire guide that touches the trim).

1) The trimline is almost always GLANZSWARTZ (i.e. gloss black) in the vast majority of owners reporting the door creak problem. Few owners with chrome report the problem likely because a) there are fewer of them and b) chromium is an incredibly hard material that is unaffected by water. I found a video of a 5 series owner in the UK who replaced a single guide because it creaked. His car was 12 years old. 12 years and only one guide. Amazing. Gloss black, on the other hand, is applied to the trim as paint, a substance known to absorb impurities over it's lifetime. While cleaning the paint using a clay bar might help it is important to note the creak comes from the window guide, not the trim. While switching the trim is an option, it's not a cheap one. Chrome trim is likely going to cost about USD $1000. Chromium is expensive. There is also a polished aluminium option but it's not clear if that has clear coat applied to it. If it does, well, can't see that being different than glossy black.

2) Use of silicone on the guides can make the problem worse as the guides use a combination of EPDM and TPE, with TPE being incompatible with silicone. Owners of vehicles where the use of silicone products have silenced the problem (e.g. Honda) likely have cars that exclusively use EPDM without TPE in their window guides. EPDM is silicone inert. The amount of silicone that causes the problem is hard to measure. Some owners report that using wax has temporarily silenced the problem but, without a doubt, almost all car waxes use silicone, typically combined with carnauba. No doubt someone has tried a ceramic coating but given ceramic coatings are mainly composed of silicone dioxide, the problem may become worse. In fact, more than one post has told of a car being detailed and the owner now having to deal with the problem. While finding a shampoo without silicone isn't too hard, almost every other shine product will have it included. You can use silicone on 99.9% of your BMW, just not on the door trim. If not sure what your shine product contains, apply silicone cleaner post cleaning to your door trim.

3) The major of creaky doors reported seem to have the creak at the latch (opposite the hinge) end of the door. While the problem is often described as 'chassis flex' it is unlikely the actual steel welded chassis is flexing but more likely the door latch or catch bracket (on the chassis) or both will develop play over time. Perhaps changing these two (bracket and latch) would fix the problem but that seems like overkill. While the bracket is an easy replacement the door latch is hell. Plus, as a combo, the two would run about US$300 per door for parts only. $1200 to maybe get rid of creaks? Another path is likely just as good and cheaper.

I am going to try a little PPF on the latch end of each door and see what happens. I'll also try some automotive moleskin, a material often used to repair window guides (also called window channels) to keep them from scratching window tint. Moleskin is commonly used on bandages where friction reduction is required e.g. a bandage on a blister on the Achilles heel. Of course medical moleskin isn't going use automotive adhesive. While it is the guide that is the problem, the PPF (or moleskin) may be slippery enough to allow the guide to move without creaking. The two approaches differ in that the moleskin is applied to the window guide while the PPF is applied to the trim. It should be noted that on the new G20 BMW has extended the flocking material to the entire window guide, not just the edge as on previous E and F chassis vehicles.

Teflon tape may also work but it is fairy expensive getting a reputable brand. I've only heard of BMW's OE tape (likely 3M) being used but a roll runs about $200+. For a dealer, it makes sense but for an individual, kind of crazy. Cheapo knockoffs are available but I haven't seen a post comparing brands.

[schernov]

When I bought my 2018 f30 - it was used - was creaking a lot.
Cleaned window guides and shadow line trim very well and creaking stopped for couple weeks. Then started again.

Went to dealer and had the tape applied under warranty. Was quiet for a long time. But tape started to bubble up. Took it back and dealer reapplied the tape again.

[casualDIYer]

It's now 2 years since I replaced the window guides and the creaking has come back. So I would conclude that as the window guide seal (made of EPDM + TPM) ages, and while using the black gloss shadowline (BMW's nomenclature) trim creaking does return. I will now attempt to fix the problem with a strip of ppf.

Fingers crossed.

[casualDIYer]

Tried PPF today and to get it to go on with a professional look is taking more skill than I've got. Might try moleskin next or get the PPF guy to put on PPF on the door trim.

[mrpingu]

Thanks for your updates. This was very insightful

[casualDIYer]

The latest solution, working well. The main problem is, once the creaking shuts up, well, you can now listen to the other dozen rattles going on in your car.

Lovely ~

The problem
Squeaking is noted in the Window Guide when the vehicle is in motion, particularly during when turning, driving in and out of driveways or ramps, when driving over uneven surfaces (e.g. potholes, stone, etc)

Observations
1) Problem is with the window guide, not door seal or other other door components. I swapped out all 4 window guides 2 years ago and the car was silent . . . for 2 years. Then the problem came back.
2) Use of the shadowline trim. I did not see a report of chromeline trim users experiencing the problem. No reports from Polished Aluminium users either.
3) Problem is common during hot and humid weather, making it elusive to diagnose as it does not occur in all conditions.
4) Use of silicone products seems to bring on the problem earlier. The window guides are made of EPDM (to which silicone is inert) plus TPM (to which silicone is destructive)
5) Solutions include: Replace of the guides, lubricants, sealents, cleaners, teflon tape, PPF, non-descript clear tape from China. It seems physical barrier solutions that separate the guide from the trim are the longest lasting solutions. No solutions has been noted to last more than 2 years.

Solution: Moleskin Tape
Moleskin is the material used keep the window from being scratched as it moves up and down into the door.

Pluses: Very effective for silencing the creaks in the door, hides the solution in the door (not the trim) and relatively easy to put on compared with PPF. Cheaper (US$60) than teflon tape (~ US$275), switching to chrome trim (which likely would run US$1000), new window guides (roughly US$500).

Negatives: Not exactly OE looking. Moleskin attracts fluff, hair etc. More expensive than PPF solutions, which attach to the trim, not door.

You will need to go to TintProtector.com and order 20 feet of Tint Protector MoleSkin Felt. The 20ft is more than you need for an F30 but I had some extra in case of error.

Nomenclature - Parts


Clean the window guide with something that is mild like SimpleGreen or BMW's silicone remover. Do not use alcohol as it may not be compatible with the window guide material. The area to be repaired can get very dirty and if not cleaned will prevent good adhesion of the moleskin tape



Apply the moleskin to the top of the window guide (not the flocking part, the hard rubber-like material part)



Fold down the tape, making sure not to allow extra to extend beyond the edge of the guide.



Pull back the door seal and fold in the Moleskin tape



Continue along the door, pulling back the door seal, tucking in the tape until the end, making sure to cut any excess. BE CAREFUL not to cut the guide as getting water in the area it protects may lead to failures with in-door electronics or cause rust to form in protected areas of the door cavity.



As you can see the family dog has already contributed to the project.

Good luck

[fe7565]

2) Use of the shadowline trim. I did not see a report of chromeline trim users experiencing the problem. No reports from Polished Aluminium users either.
3) Problem is common during hot and humid weather, making it elusive to diagnose as it does occur in all condition

Do you think that black color gets a lot hotter? Of just the type of material used?

Not related to your case, but:
I have wind noise on the right side (less on the left), but only when I go at higher speeds. I checked the seals and they are good. I checked if there is a gap between the window frame and the door frame, but do not see any. Tried using one of those ultrasonic transmitter inside the car and receiver outside the car setups (car at standstill), and no leaks detected.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by fe7565

2) Use of the shadowline trim. I did not see a report of chromeline trim users experiencing the problem. No reports from Polished Aluminium users either.
3) Problem is common during hot and humid weather, making it elusive to diagnose as it does occur in all condition

Do you think that black color gets a lot hotter? Of just the type of material used?

Not related to your case, but:
I have wind noise on the right side (less on the left), but only when I go at higher speeds. I checked the seals and they are good. I checked if there is a gap between the window frame and the door frame, but do not see any. Tried using one of those ultrasonic transmitter inside the car and receiver outside the car setups (car at standstill), and no leaks detected.

Wind is a bit of a tricky problem to diagnose. Was it windy when you heard the noise or do always hear the sound when driving fast? Has the windshield ever been replaced? Have the doors ever been off the car? Minor problems in assembly can cause wind noise but the wind also can cause noise.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

Wind is a bit of a tricky problem to diagnose. Was it windy when you heard the noise or do always hear the sound when driving fast? Has the windshield ever been replaced? Have the doors ever been off the car? Minor problems in assembly can cause wind noise but the wind also can cause noise.

It happens always above a certain speed and get worse with the speed. Of course here in the US we are stuck at below 80mph so did not check on higher speeds. But yes, with higher wind it get louder.

Bought the car at 1.5 years old, no record of any windows/windshield/door work.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by fe7565

2) Use of the shadowline trim. I did not see a report of chromeline trim users experiencing the problem. No reports from Polished Aluminium users either.
3) Problem is common during hot and humid weather, making it elusive to diagnose as it does occur in all condition

Do you think that black color gets a lot hotter? Of just the type of material used?

Interesting. That might be part of the problem.

[mysterio]

Another shadowline trim creak victim here. My accidental mitigation strategy: chassis stiffening. I noticed that the creaking on my car was reduced after installing a strut tower bar and then further reduced with the addition of an F32 rear subframe brace. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=29

Thanks to OP for investigating!

[crazyazz]

I have insane creaking etc coming from the left passenger area, it does sound like its head or shoulder height, 2015 F07 GT. Its pretty loud, so I never thought it could just be the window trim. I have the black shaddowline.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by crazyazz

I have insane creaking etc coming from the left passenger area, it does sound like its head or shoulder height, 2015 F07 GT. Its pretty loud, so I never thought it could just be the window trim. I have the black shaddowline.

Well, it's summer time here so in my experience, yeah, the window guide can cause terrible creaking. The Titanic probably made less noise breaking apart and sinking 1000s' of meters under the sea. You'd think the door hinge was on the verge of falling off.

While it likely is the window guide I would check the door hardware just to make sure it's not that. To do that, open the door that creaks and see if you can pull the door back and forth or up and down. The door should not move. Don't hang on it or anything like that. Just a light to moderate amount of force. Compare to the other 3 doors.