[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by kern417

The HPFP is extremely reliable. Not many ways it can fail since it's a mechanical pump. They should last the life of the engine.

You need to flash the stage 2+ map to access the extra hp that's supported by the TU pump. Running the same stage 1/2 map will not net any gains because the pump itself doesn't change anything.

is there an OTS tune that takes advantage of an upgraded HPFP and only pump gas? i believe this guy is NOT intending to use ethanol mix

[M140_BCS]

BootMod3 Stage 2+ hpfp 91Oct and 93

MHD Stage 2 hpfp 93Oct

[vcx]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

is there an OTS tune that takes advantage of an upgraded HPFP and only pump gas? i believe this guy is NOT intending to use ethanol mix

I am also interested in knowing if an OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, can take advantage of an upgraded HPFP (especially in low-mid range), and if an upgraded pump could open the way to a "custum" tune, with more torque in the midrange, or if an upgraded pump is overkill in this case.

Bonus question (to Kern?): for a mere OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, which pump would be recomended ? TU or Dorch stage 1 ?

Thank you!

[weehe126]

An upgraded HPFP will do nothing to gain you power unless you are running out of fuel. The OTS tunes on pump gas are octane limited. It's only once you start running more than E30 do you run out of fuel and need a bigger HPFP. Stage 2 vs Stage 2+ for 91 or 93 is just marketing.

[Rehverze]

I just upgraded to a Dorch Stage 2 HPFP. I just want to make clear that the difference between BM3 Stage 2 and Stage 2+ is not considerable. I barely noticed it. For me this wasn't a let down because I only did the HPFP to get ready for a turbo. If you're not going to upgrade your turbo a TU pump is more than enough.

[Rehverze]

Originally Posted by vcx

I am also interested in knowing if an OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, can take advantage of an upgraded HPFP (especially in low-mid range), and if an upgraded pump could open the way to a "custum" tune, with more torque in the midrange, or if an upgraded pump is overkill in this case.

Bonus question (to Kern?): for a mere OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, which pump would be recomended ? TU or Dorch stage 1 ?

Thank you!

I know you said for Kern but I've watched every video he's put out. Either buy a Dorch Stage 2 or a TU. TU and Stage 1 flow about the same and with TU prices going down and Stage 1 staying at $1,100(ish) you're better off going TU. I'm pretty sure he recommends that if you're going to stay pump gas with no E, you won't need anything more than a TU.

Personally I went big and just got the Stage 2, that way no matter what I'll never have to buy a new HPFP if I want more power.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by Rehverze

I just upgraded to a Dorch Stage 2 HPFP. I just want to make clear that the difference between BM3 Stage 2 and Stage 2+ is not considerable. I barely noticed it. For me this wasn't a let down because I only did the HPFP to get ready for a turbo. If you're not going to upgrade your turbo a TU pump is more than enough.

There wasn't a big difference between Stage 2 E30 and Stage 2+ E30.

According to BM3 gain percentages, that lines up. I dyno'd at ~440awhp and ~515lb-ft on Stage 2 E30.

Using their percentages, I'd be at ~455whp. Hard to notice an additional 10-20hp but there's a slight gain for sure.

I think the TU pump is fine for something like a VTT GC if your goal is ~500whp, maybe a bit more. But Dorch stage 2 is for sure the way to go with a bigger hybrid or full frame big turbo.

[zacedelen]

My thoughts exactly

Originally Posted by TheFanatic

As of now my best option is to simply run two different tunes. One for raceday and one for commuting.

[vcx]

Thanks guys, all what you say makes sense.

That being said, MG FLasher OTS map version 2.14 were noticeably slower than version 2.12. The explanation was, if I understood correctly, that the OEM HPFP was not totally up to the task in low-mid range, and therefore some users were seing pressure drop in fuel injection.

If MG modified their tune to be less aggressive even for a mere stage 1 on pump gas, I guess that you could benefit from an upgraded HPFP even for a stage 1 or 2 on pump gas.

Or did I miss something ?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by vcx

Thanks guys, all what you say makes sense.

That being said, MG FLasher OTS map version 2.14 were noticeably slower than version 2.12. The explanation was, if I understood correctly, that the OEM HPFP was not totally up to the task in low-mid range, and therefore some users were seing pressure drop in fuel injection.

If MG modified their tune to be less aggressive even for a mere stage 1 on pump gas, I guess that you could benefit from an upgraded HPFP even for a stage 1 or 2 on pump gas.

Or did I miss something ?

No. I keep telling people even on pump gas, it can allow more torque. Not much top end power, but it will allow you to make more boost, sooner. But people provide mixed feedback after trying it out.

I've seen the same thing on MHD and BM3. They made an update and some people see rail pressure drops even on the pump gas maps. I think there's just a little variation in performance from car to car.

[vcx]

Originally Posted by kern417

No. I keep telling people even on pump gas, it can allow more torque. Not much top end power, but it will allow you to make more boost, sooner. But people provide mixed feedback after trying it out.

I've seen the same thing on MHD and BM3. They made an update and some people see rail pressure drops even on the pump gas maps. I think there's just a little variation in performance from car to car.

Thank you!

I contacted MG Flasher team in the meantime, and they just responded me.

According to them, the OEM pump can support tunes up to stage 2.

But stage 2, which exceed 610 - 630 NM with safe level AFR ratio will run on the border of OEM HPFP flow rate efficiency.

Therefore, they recommend an upgraded HPFP for stage 2 or E30.

The newer OTS map versions 2.14 and 2.16 took into account the problem with OEM HPFP and can be ran more efficiently with the OEM pump.

Finally, for my personal application/setup, the TU pump should be enough.

[kern417]

I made a DIY for the Dorch HPFP. Hope this helps.

[Dronamashina]

Originally Posted by vcx

I am also interested in knowing if an OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, can take advantage of an upgraded HPFP (especially in low-mid range), and if an upgraded pump could open the way to a "custum" tune, with more torque in the midrange, or if an upgraded pump is overkill in this case.

Bonus question (to Kern?): for a mere OTS stage 2 tune, on pump gas, which pump would be recomended ? TU or Dorch stage 1 ?

Thank you!

I can confirm that that st2.5 maps for upgraded hpfp are stronger than st2 maps for stock pump. That’s with pump fuel, no ethanol. I have 0,4 seconds better result 100-200 kph (st2.5 vs st2).

[kern417]

Adding another video to help people decide what HPPF is right for them.

[leo_malta747]

hi!
Does anyone know if the part number has changed?
1351-8-631-642 to 1351-8-489-446, I received mine today with this number and looks exactly the same
thanks!

[kern417]

Originally Posted by leo_malta747

hi!
Does anyone know if the part number has changed?
1351-8-631-642 to 1351-8-489-446, I received mine today with this number and looks exactly the same
thanks!

I don't see that part number in any BMW database.

[leo_malta747]

Originally Posted by kern417

I don't see that part number in any BMW database.

Is it from a 320i 2021

[Scott340]

Originally Posted by Dronamashina

I can confirm that that st2.5 maps for upgraded hpfp are stronger than st2 maps for stock pump. That’s with pump fuel, no ethanol. I have 0,4 seconds better result 100-200 kph (st2.5 vs st2).

I'm finding the same, although stage 2+ for me is pushing beyond the limits of octane for 99ron, so I have to put in 5l ethanol per tank full to clean up timing. I was around 0.4 quicker than stage 2 100-200 without ethanol, and 0.8 quicker with ethanol

[M140_BCS]

Originally Posted by Scott340

I'm finding the same, although stage 2+ for me is pushing beyond the limits of octane for 99ron, so I have to put in 5l ethanol per tank full to clean up timing. I was around 0.4 quicker than stage 2 100-200 without ethanol, and 0.8 quicker with ethanol

As you've found, the UK 99RON fuel doesn't have enough octane to run the MHD hpfp 98 tune.

Way too many timing corrections and knock detected.

I also added 10% pure ethanol and it pulls stronger up top. Ignition timing has basically no corrections.

Not had chance to time the 100-200 times but it feels much quicker in the higher rev range.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by leo_malta747

Is it from a 320i 2021

That's probably why I can't find it. They don't sell the G20 320i in the US. But assuming it has the same B48 as the 330i then it should come with the same TU hpfp. So I'm not sure about what makes that part different.

[vcx]

Hello,

After reading that thread, I bought a b58 TU HPFP.

But something caught my attention: the part number is only written on one side, and there is no officiel BMW part number on the other side of the pump.

Is that really a TU pump?

Edit: the box in which the pump was is a generic Bosch box, so it might just be a general "TU pump" supplied by Bosch, before BMW rebrands it.

[Scott340]

Originally Posted by M140_BCS

As you've found, the UK 99RON fuel doesn't have enough octane to run the MHD hpfp 98 tune.

Way too many timing corrections and knock detected.

I also added 10% pure ethanol and it pulls stronger up top. Ignition timing has basically no corrections.

Not had chance to time the 100-200 times but it feels much quicker in the higher rev range.

Yeah I'm BM3 and I found with ethanol free 99 Ron fuel (94.5 octane) I needed an E10 mix (96 octane) for the 93 tune, and an E20 mix (98 octane) for the E30 tune. Problem is its a logistical nightmare to put enough ethanol in to run the E30 tune when it's comes in 1 litre bottles, and I do high miles so I'm keeping with the weakest stage 2+ map as daily driver.

There's the Stage 2+ Racegas map as well which I reckon needs about 15l of ethanol per tank to make 100 octane, which I'll use for special occasions/a birthday treat!