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      04-02-2018, 12:53 PM   #1
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Rounding up AH3 for BM3 or MHD?

Hi fellow AH3 owners, i figured we stood a better chance of getting support from either MHD or bm3 if we could join forces; i guess the more similar our setup are the more likely we are to get support.

Basically i could go to a local tuner and be dlne with it, but i like having control over my tune, be able to change burbles, flash back to stock if needed, etc.

The idea is to reply to this thread stating you're interested in getting support and mention
- where you're located
- if you're EWG (build fate after 07/2013) or PWG (before)
- whether you're stock or have high flow cat/downpipe and fmic, have an upgraded turbo etc.

I'll start -

Located in France (no local tuner's heard of either mhd or bm3 or want anything to do with them as fat as i know).

Setup: EWG/wagner FMIC/HJS hi flow cat, stock turbo
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      04-04-2018, 02:47 PM   #2
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Hey thanks for doing this!

Im located in San Diego, driving a 2013 AH3 (PWG model), and am planning on going stage 2 (already have intake, catless dp/exhaust, just waiting on fmic and charge pipes)

Hopefully we get more support for this as I know a lot of AH3 owners have been wondering about tunes
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      04-05-2018, 02:27 AM   #3
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You know I'm in. Already have BM3, but I would also buy MHD just to have options.

-Austin, Texas (home to https://www.boostlogic.com/ and http://www.eurocharged.com/)
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      04-05-2018, 05:46 AM   #4
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Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
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      04-05-2018, 06:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
I'm located in the Pacific Northwest, Richland, WA. I was going to order the JB+ with a BMS intake to get it started. Any opinions? I'm fairly knew to all these abbreviations if you guys could help out. Thanks.
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      04-05-2018, 06:45 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by AH32013 View Post
I'm located in the Pacific Northwest, Richland, WA. I was going to order the JB+ with a BMS intake to get it started. Any opinions? I'm fairly knew to all these abbreviations if you guys could help out. Thanks.
Sure:
JB+ and JB4 are what's called "piggybacks" made by BMS; there are other brands too.

They will fit in between car sensors and the DME, essentially making the DME think it's intake air pressure is lower than it actually is so that it raises boost pressure by requesting more from the turbo.
In turn, the DME reading more air mass will increase fueling and therefore generate more power.

Oversimplifying, let's say the DME boost target is 10 psi, the JB4 will tell it it's only getting 6 psi so that it will attempt to reach 14psi real boost.

Bootmod3, MHD, are a different class of tune: they will directly alter the DME targets so that it knows the actual variables (real air pressure, fuel, etc.) but will set itself higher targets than stock. Here the DME will really have a 14 psi boost target, and will manage timing with the proper parameters.

Flash tunes have been around for a while but the difference with BM3 or MHD is that you can change maps easily on your own, you can now even adjust burble level for instance for a given map.

Piggybacks do not require to alter the DME and are typically made available earlier than tunes because of the time it takes to be able to reverse engineer DME protections and data tables.

Most people's preference go to flash tunes however because this is where all engine parameters are known to the calculator, and therefore allows for a more precise adjustment with all variables known.

I ditched the JB4 a while ago due to inconsistent gear shifting (reported by other people as well), the explanation we have is that the DME also computes the engine output torque to provide to the gearbox to manage its gear shifts properly. If you alter the air pressure reading you also alter the computed torque and power and therefore the gearbox doesn't behave as designed, resulting in uncertain gearshifts, and I believe in increased wear on the gearbox which is really unwanted.

Finally you can also combine both piggyback and flash with what's called a "BEF" (Back End Flash) designed to work with e.g. JB4 as boost or even methanol injection controller.

Hope this helps
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      04-05-2018, 06:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH32013 View Post
I'm located in the Pacific Northwest, Richland, WA. I was going to order the JB+ with a BMS intake to get it started. Any opinions? I'm fairly knew to all these abbreviations if you guys could help out. Thanks.
Sure:
JB+ and JB4 are what's called "piggybacks" made by BMS; there are other brands too.

They will fit in between car sensors and the DME, essentially making the DME think it's intake air pressure is lower than it actually is so that it raises boost pressure by requesting more from the turbo.
In turn, the DME reading more air mass will increase fueling and therefore generate more power.

Bootmod3, MHD, are a different class of tune: they will directly alter the DME targets so that it knows the actual variables (real air pressure, fuel, etc.) but will set itself higher targets than stock.

Flash tunes have been around for a while but the difference with BM3 or MHD is that you can change maps easily on your own, you can now even adjust burble level for instance.

Piggybacks do not require to alter the DME and are typically made available earlier than tunes because of the time it takes to be able to reverse engineer DME protections and data tables.

Most people's preference go to flash tunes however because this is where all engine parameters are known to the calculator, and therefore allows for a more precise adjustment with all variables known.

I ditched the JB4 a while ago due to inconsistent gear shifting (reported by other people as well), the explanation we have is that the DME also computes the engine output torque to provide to the gearbox to manage its gear shifts properly. If you alter the air pressure reading you also alter the computed torque and power and therefore the gearbox doesn't behave as designed, resulting in uncertain gearshifts, and I believe in increased wear on the gearbox which is really unwanted.

Finally you can also combine both piggyback and flash with what's called a "BEF" (Back End Flash) designed to work with e.g. JB4 as boost or even methanol injection controller.

Hope this helps
Gotcha, Yes thank you very much. I Appreciate the breakdown. How long did you run JB4 on your car before ditching it?
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      04-05-2018, 01:32 PM   #8
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Car specs:
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Mods:
-intake
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-downpipe coming soon

I'm located in central Mississippi and the local car scene is basically dead and no local tuners. I would love to see a ots map from mhd or bm3. I've been running jb4 for a couple of months now and would have to agree on the fact that the shifts are very inconsistent. It sucks having such a powerful car but barely any support from tuners.
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      04-05-2018, 01:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
I wasn't aware that bm3 had a pwg map for the AH3. I'll have to check that out.
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      04-05-2018, 01:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Hi fellow AH3 owners, i figured we stood a better chance of getting support from either MHD or bm3 if we could join forces; i guess the more similar our setup are the more likely we are to get support.

Basically i could go to a local tuner and be dlne with it, but i like having control over my tune, be able to change burbles, flash back to stock if needed, etc.

The idea is to reply to this thread stating you're interested in getting support and mention
- where you're located
- if you're EWG (build fate after 07/2013) or PWG (before)
- whether you're stock or have high flow cat/downpipe and fmic, have an upgraded turbo etc.

I'll start -

Located in France (no local tuner's heard of either mhd or bm3 or want anything to do with them as fat as i know).

Setup: EWG/wagner FMIC/HJS hi flow cat, stock turbo
According to the numbers, about 75% of AH3 were PWG, FWIW.

Roughly 66% were MY 2013. Add 2012 MY its around the 75% PWG.

Around 20%+ MY 2014 and literally less 2015 MY than the total Fingers of 4 passengers in a AH3.

It’s also why almost every AH3 on the used car market is 2013.

Would most likely be interested in a tune for a 2013. Stock except Chargepipe. Thinking of Stage 1 Turbo.

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 04-05-2018 at 03:52 PM..
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      04-05-2018, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afranke View Post
You know I'm in. Already have BM3, but I would also buy MHD just to have options.

-Austin, Texas (home to https://www.boostlogic.com/ and http://www.eurocharged.com/)
-PWG (2012-08-08)
-Everything (see sig)
When you have listed the BM3 map you are using for BM3, it always says EWG in the name, yet you have a PWG

If I am not mistaken, you are also getting CEL still?
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      04-05-2018, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Hi fellow AH3 owners, i figured we stood a better chance of getting support from either MHD or bm3 if we could join forces; i guess the more similar our setup are the more likely we are to get support.

Basically i could go to a local tuner and be dlne with it, but i like having control over my tune, be able to change burbles, flash back to stock if needed, etc.

The idea is to reply to this thread stating you're interested in getting support and mention
- where you're located
- if you're EWG (build fate after 07/2013) or PWG (before)
- whether you're stock or have high flow cat/downpipe and fmic, have an upgraded turbo etc.

I'll start -

Located in France (no local tuner's heard of either mhd or bm3 or want anything to do with them as fat as i know).

Setup: EWG/wagner FMIC/HJS hi flow cat, stock turbo
According to the numbers, about 75% of AH3 were PWG, FWIW.

Roughly 66% were MY 2013. Add 2012 MY its around the 75% PWG.

Around 20%+ MY 2014 and literally less 2015 MY than the total hands and toes of 4 passengers in a AH3.

It’s also why almost every AH3 on the used car market is 2013.

Would most likely be interested in a tune for a 2013. Stock except Chargepipe. Thinking of Stage 1 Turbo.
Interesting... where do you get figures on this?
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      04-05-2018, 03:15 PM   #13
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Interesting... where do you get figures on this?
There is a chart online based on VINs of all Hybrids by model produced by year.

I was able to find most of the ranges via online vin decoders as they are in sequence for a long period of time.

They were in 4 or 5 sequential ranges.

Did this 6 months ago so don’t remember the exact range numbers anymore.

Total AH3 was surprisingly just under 1500 total according to the year by year webpage.

WBA3F9C55FKP46591 was the last AH3 that rolled off the assembly line on 5/27/2015 (I believe) and if you start walking those backwards and look at dates, you can see how few were built in 2015.

WBA3F9C55FKP46585 was built over 90 days earlier and only 5 were built in between.

In fact it’s available here

https://www.carmax.com/car/15778604

WBA3F9C57FKP46575 Just 10 cars back was built on 9/22/2014.

And WBA3F9C58FKP46565, 10 cars back, was built on 7/21/2014, most likely the first 2015 AH3 and WBA3F9C52EKP46591 was the last.

That explains why BMW discontinued after 2015.

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 04-05-2018 at 03:58 PM..
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      04-05-2018, 03:57 PM   #14
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2014 AH3 here! JB4, vrsf chargepipe and intercooler, cts intake, bavsound speakers and subs, bimmertech amp. Tuned for 30,000 miles. Suspension is terrible but I have some Dinan springs waiting to go on. Love the car! Live in NY.
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      04-05-2018, 10:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
Hah, thanks man. Just had a baby, so I was focused on that for quite awhile, just getting back into things now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy1o1 View Post
I wasn't aware that bm3 had a pwg map for the AH3. I'll have to check that out.
They have a Stage 2 93 Octane AH3 map. It was released on March 13th, 2018. I haven't been able to test it yet because I spent my OTS credits on old maps that I didn't realize wouldn't work for me. Having PTF reset my credits so I can try it out. Halim told me today "I'm finishing off MEVD172 today and will go on AH3 Probably tonight or tomorrow." so there should be some updates soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
When you have listed the BM3 map you are using for BM3, it always says EWG in the name, yet you have a PWG

If I am not mistaken, you are also getting CEL still?
I have PWG (asked about the naming thing and was told it was just a typo), and the custom maps PTF were working on for me did have some problems in the past (my old STG2 93 OCT AGG Burble and E30 tunes). I'm not sure if it's at all related, but it appears I have a bad hybrid battery (or one of the internal control modules is bad) and that is causing a drivetrain error. Over the past few months, I've purchased most of the salvage AH3 batteries (if not all) in the US and have rebuilt it a few times. Despite that, I still get intermittent alerts that a single cell is bad. I'm thinking at this point it's one of the internal control modules that have gone bad. I'm at the point where I need to decide if I want to keep testing shit, or just buy a new battery. Only problem is they cost $5k+ for the part alone.
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Last edited by afranke; 04-05-2018 at 11:00 PM..
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      04-05-2018, 11:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afranke View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Welcome back @afranke hadn't heard from you in a while.

franzzz frackje Coolguy1o1 dougt.ah3 AH32013 are you on?

FWIW:
- MHD emailed back with a flat "no", AH3 is unsupported
- BM3 have a PWG stage 2 OTS map for AH3, but none for EWG (I'm EWG)

I've actually bought a bootmod3 license yesterday and intend to try to unlock and flash tomorrow, see what happens - nothing bad I hope...
Hah, thanks man. Just had a baby, so I was focused on that for quite awhile, just getting back into things now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy1o1 View Post
I wasn't aware that bm3 had a pwg map for the AH3. I'll have to check that out.
They have a Stage 2 93 Octane AH3 map. It was released on March 13th, 2018. I haven't been able to test it yet because I spent my OTS credits on old maps that I didn't realize wouldn't work for me. Having PTF reset my credits so I can try it out. Halim told me today "I'm finishing off MEVD172 today and will go on AH3 Probably tonight or tomorrow." so there should be some updates soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
When you have listed the BM3 map you are using for BM3, it always says EWG in the name, yet you have a PWG

If I am not mistaken, you are also getting CEL still?
I have PWG (asked about the naming thing and was told it was just a mistake), and the custom maps PTF were working on for me did have some problems in the past (my old STG2 93 OCT AGG Burble and E30 tunes). I'm not sure if it's at all related, but it appears I have a bad hybrid battery (or one of the internal control modules is bad) and that is causing a drivetrain error. Over the past few months, I've purchased most of the salvage AH3 batteries (if not all) in the US and have rebuilt it a few times. Despite that, I still get intermittent alerts that a single cell is bad. I'm thinking at this point it's one of the internal control modules that have gone bad. I'm at the point where I need to decide if I want to keep testing shit, or just buy a new battery. Only problem is they cost $5k+ for the part alone.
Wow, I've never knew that there was a tune for the AH3 from bm3. Are you aware if updates are free for the maps. Also is there a burble setting for the AH3. If there is I'm ditching the jb4 right now.
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      04-05-2018, 11:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy1o1 View Post
Wow, I've never knew that there was a tune for the AH3 from bm3. Are you aware if updates are free for the maps. Also is there a burble setting for the AH3. If there is I'm ditching the jb4 right now.
It's an OTS map, so it should get updates. And based on what Halim told me today, it seems an update is coming soon.

I had the AGG burble on my custom tune from them, and it didn't work as well as it does on the EWG, but it worked. The burble isn't related to AH3, just PWG vs EWG. It works on all EWG, and some PWG.

Here's a single frame from a video showing the mid-shift flame that I was getting when I was running my e30 aggressive burble map (note, fully open exhaust, no cat, resonator, or mufflers)

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      04-05-2018, 11:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afranke View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy1o1 View Post
Wow, I've never knew that there was a tune for the AH3 from bm3. Are you aware if updates are free for the maps. Also is there a burble setting for the AH3. If there is I'm ditching the jb4 right now.
It's an OTS map, so it should get updates. And based on what Halim told me today, it seems an update is coming soon.

I had the AGG burble on my custom tune from them, and it didn't work as well as it does on the EWG, but it worked. The burble isn't related to AH3, just PWG vs EWG. It works on all EWG, and some PWG.

Here's a single frame from a video showing the mid-shift flame that I was getting when I was running my e30 aggressive burble map (note, fully open exhaust, no cat, resonator, or mufflers)

Were the burbles included with the ots map or did you have to get that custom tuned?
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      04-05-2018, 11:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Coolguy1o1 View Post
Were the burbles included with the ots map or did you have to get that custom tuned?
Haven't had a chance to try the OTS map as of yet, I'm unsure of the burble status. I assume if it doesn't have them you can request they add them in. Even then, it might not work on your specific car (for some reason I'm not sure of).
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      04-06-2018, 01:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afranke View Post
Haven't had a chance to try the OTS map as of yet, I'm unsure of the burble status. I assume if it doesn't have them you can request they add them in. Even then, it might not work on your specific car (for some reason I'm not sure of).
If i'm lucky i'll be able to tell you tomorrow... there should be a burble slider now in the latest version, didn't have a chance to try it yet as I got my license code yesterday and my battery charger.
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      04-06-2018, 02:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afranke View Post
Haven't had a chance to try the OTS map as of yet, I'm unsure of the burble status. I assume if it doesn't have them you can request they add them in. Even then, it might not work on your specific car (for some reason I'm not sure of).
If i'm lucky i'll be able to tell you tomorrow... there should be a burble slider now in the latest version, didn't have a chance to try it yet as I got my license code yesterday and my battery charger.
Hopefully it turns out good. Keep us posted.
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      04-06-2018, 09:20 AM   #22
Horley900
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United Kingdom
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Drives: 2012 Activehybrid 3
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Kent

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I've been running a custom map from a tuner in Essex England, it is super aggressive and not to my liking I was making 361 bhp not including the electric side.
I've bought the bootmod3 licence and should hopefully be putting the map on a bit later. I like the fact I can take it on and off and hoping it's so aggressive on the engine.

I was told that when our cars are on the dyno it doesn't measure the the electric side or it doesn't work on the dyno. Is that correct?
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