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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Transfer Case Output Flange Failure, Cause Analysis, Prevention, and Repair
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      02-06-2019, 01:13 PM   #23
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All X3d (xDrive28d) use the 96mm rubber giubo for all dates of production. So not really as much of an issue.
It also uses the ATC 45L transfer case which uses a chain drive. I bet the flange is not pressed on either.
By the way, the x3d is a very nice car. I tuned my dad's X3d with my 245hp/400ft-lbs tune, which works perfectly fine with stock emissions equipment, and it gained 2-3mpg to the running average.



Regarding clutches, yes, all clutches eventually wear out, as those are actually normal wear items. Different tire sizes will accelerate that wear, that's just inevitable.
It shouldn't be a whole transfer case replacement for that. The clutches can be replaced. Of course it's up to the owner if they want to put up with that.
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      02-06-2019, 01:33 PM   #24
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They eventually wear out yes, but very prematurely. That was in the issue in my car at approx 45k miles, so regardless of what happens with the output shaft it's life still isnt very long haha
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      02-06-2019, 01:35 PM   #25
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So, if I remember right the stock disc is rubber with aluminum sleeves around the bolt holes. So is the one that you ordered just all rubber with no sleeves? Is that a custom item or is it available off-the-shelf anywhere? My TC already has 20 K on it, but I would be tempted to try this fix. It definitely sounds like a must if I pull it down and rebuild it again.
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      02-06-2019, 01:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
This is sweet. Do you have any pictures?
Are the pictures not showing up for you, or anyone else?

I uploaded them on my Onedrive and embedded from there.
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      02-06-2019, 01:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog_x View Post
So, if I remember right the stock disc is rubber with aluminum sleeves around the bolt holes. So is the one that you ordered just all rubber with no sleeves? Is that a custom item or is it available off-the-shelf anywhere?
It's actually the superseding part number for the 328xd with 105mm giubo.

I have this exact part arriving today:
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      02-06-2019, 01:41 PM   #28
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Oh, didn't realize that it was a new version. I will definitely have to order one. The pictures have never showed up for me on this thread, Figured it was just me.
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      02-06-2019, 01:43 PM   #29
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I will fix the pics ASAP. That would make a lot more sense.

Kudos to everyone using just their imagination!
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Last edited by Enabled; 02-06-2019 at 03:18 PM..
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      02-06-2019, 03:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328dX View Post
They eventually wear out yes, but very prematurely. That was in the issue in my car at approx 45k miles, so regardless of what happens with the output shaft it's life still isnt very long haha
Hmm, that IS very early. Hopefully an exception. It's a shame that BMW isn't investigating this deeper. Too busy trying to appeal to the new huge China market?

My original transfer case is at almost 90k miles, without clutch issues. Once I open it, I will evaluate the clutches.
I would have loved to find out why that failed so quickly on yours, however.
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      02-06-2019, 08:21 PM   #31
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Not sure I'm the second owner but looking at the previous owners info in iDrive suggests it was an older woman, you did see the google doc with the list of failures right?

Transfer case failures database

I'm not the only one who's had clutch pack failure that early, but then again it could be caused by metal flakes in the fluid from the output shaft
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      02-06-2019, 08:39 PM   #32
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Yes, I have seen that thread. There are at least 2 different failure types, and since the dealer did most of those replacements, there isn't really a good way to know which failure was which. Missed opportunity by them to actually solve a problem..

How did yours fail and what led to the diag of clutches gone out?

Output flange seems to be more common, but this isn't definitive.
For now, I'll be running mine in 2wd mode, until I actually need 4wd.
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      02-06-2019, 08:43 PM   #33
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I had the misfire/skipping feeling under hard acceleration which only leads me to believe the clutches are slipping
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      02-07-2019, 11:09 AM   #34
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Mine had a similar feeling before the flange self-destructed. It starts to slip before it completely rounds the teeth out. In my 2 cases the clutches were fine. But I can imagine that some miss placed shavings could do some pretty good damage to the clutches. I don't think too many people have torn them apart
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      02-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #35
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I agree, it sounds like output flange failure actually, on the verge of letting go completely. Then you have front wheels pulling for a while, and you will have transmission output plausibility codes.


kdog_x, did your new case come fully filled with fluid? I checked mine twice, once on floor, and again on car, and it seemed to be full. I didn't check again later.
Also, was your flange hand-pressed, or did you use a puller at any time? All mine required was a moderate tug and it came out.
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      02-07-2019, 04:06 PM   #36
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My new one came with fluid, but it leaked all over the shipping box. I topped it back off on the car. I didn't remove the flange from the new one, but if I remember right the old one took some persuading with a rubber mallet to remove.
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      02-11-2019, 11:29 AM   #37
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After some discussion with a ZF drivetrain expert at BMW HQ, they recommended to use Loctite 660 on flanges with mild wear, because it's designed to replace air gaps in splined shafts.
Vibration protection is the goal to save the output flange.

He did say that output flange may benefit from some hardening, but looking at the mild wear on the transfer case shaft and flange, I'd rather not have that be the harder component, and put the eventual wear onto transmission output shaft.
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Last edited by Enabled; 02-11-2019 at 11:49 AM..
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      02-11-2019, 11:58 AM   #38
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Did you ever find out if the part was updated from pre-lci cars? I heard there was a different part number, seems like nobody can confirm anything.
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      02-11-2019, 12:07 PM   #39
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For the transfer case itself?
There is no update. The LCI just uses a 96mm flex disc, so the transfer case has a 96mm output flange of the same design. Vs. the pre-LCI's 105mm.
That's the only reason for the part number ending in 27108643150 vs 27108643149.

Now if there is an update between the very first part number and the 150 or 149, no idea.

All the part numbers lead to the same design drawings and revisions, just different output flange size.
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Last edited by Enabled; 02-11-2019 at 12:28 PM..
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      02-11-2019, 12:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
After some discussion with a ZF drivetrain expert at BMW HQ, they recommended to use Loctite 660 on flanges with mild wear, because it's designed to replace air gaps in splined shafts.
Vibration protection is the goal to save the output flange.
Did he mention any expectation for service life of the output flange with the rubber giubo?
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      02-11-2019, 12:57 PM   #41
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He did not, as his focus is the ZF transmission. I did get some interesting warnings from him to avoid launches and all launch control coding, because the torque converter lockup overheats the tone ring which can explode the planetary gears. I wasn't even intending to launch. Lol


Also, the transmission is already put into 'neutral' while idling by using torque converter, and brake A and B clutch behaviors to pull the output torque. It won't be full neutral, however.
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      02-14-2019, 10:49 AM   #42
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Also, I found out revision history on the ATC35L, and the major changes for updated part numbers were for corrosion protection on the output flanges, I believe especially the front output flange, since it sits lower. So nothing real significant.
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      02-16-2019, 10:11 AM   #43
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That loctite 660 is popular for repairing wobbly crank pulleys on Miata engines so theoretically it would work great for this application. It dries anaerobically though, so if it's exposed to air it will not harden. I'm thinking it may be anaerobic enough just reinstalling the spacer and circlip and bolting the driveshaft back in place. The loctite videos on youtube recommend using a hardening primer (7649) before applying the 660. The video indicates it's good to go in an hour with the primer, though I'd probably still go with a 12 hour cure.
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      02-16-2019, 02:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog_x View Post
That loctite 660 is popular for repairing wobbly crank pulleys on Miata engines so theoretically it would work great for this application. It dries anaerobically though, so if it's exposed to air it will not harden. I'm thinking it may be anaerobic enough just reinstalling the spacer and circlip and bolting the driveshaft back in place. The loctite videos on youtube recommend using a hardening primer (7649) before applying the 660. The video indicates it's good to go in an hour with the primer, though I'd probably still go with a 12 hour cure.
This pdf claims that it can cure without the need of air, but the reverse (not curing in the presence of air) isn't mentioned. You should be fine. Primer if you want to make it faster. It seems steel activates it, which is pretty cool, if you ask me.
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