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      10-08-2019, 02:11 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPAC306 View Post
Tuner says my octane looks crappy.... how can I tell based on the charts? still need to swap the plugs and maybe find a good shell station.
Your timing should slowly go up with your engine speed. If there are any dips, that indicates timing pull. Knock is also an indicator that timing is too aggressive for your fuel quality.

What i do when looking for timing issues is hide all of the lines except for engine speed, throttle angle, and igntiong timing #1, #2, etc. It'll be pretty obvious if any of the cylinders are pulling timing. Pretty much all of them will follow the same pattern, then you'll see one cylinder drop below and begin climbing back up.

A little timing pull from time to time isn't a big deal, it just means the car is doing what it's supposed to. But if it's consistent and more than 2-3 *, i'd start looking into ways to fix it.
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      10-08-2019, 09:40 AM   #134
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BM3 Stg 2 93

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9bbdeac090c61ab1d89d2d

kern417 I wasn't able to get a Stg 1 E30 log just because the weather has gotten colder and my HPFP is really not liking it. Crazy to see that I am still getting throttle closure on 93! I really feel like PTF needs to address this issue without having to resort to a custom tune. Hopefully, for the next B58 revision, the throttle closure issue gets worked out.
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      10-08-2019, 11:48 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
BM3 Stg 2 93

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9bbdeac090c61ab1d89d2d

kern417 I wasn't able to get a Stg 1 E30 log just because the weather has gotten colder and my HPFP is really not liking it. Crazy to see that I am still getting throttle closure on 93! I really feel like PTF needs to address this issue without having to resort to a custom tune. Hopefully, for the next B58 revision, the throttle closure issue gets worked out.
I was told the update was to address the throttle closure issue, that was a few weeks ago now so id expect it to be soon.
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      10-08-2019, 12:26 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
BM3 Stg 2 93

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9bbdeac090c61ab1d89d2d

kern417 I wasn't able to get a Stg 1 E30 log just because the weather has gotten colder and my HPFP is really not liking it. Crazy to see that I am still getting throttle closure on 93! I really feel like PTF needs to address this issue without having to resort to a custom tune. Hopefully, for the next B58 revision, the throttle closure issue gets worked out.
Yeah I'm really not sure. In my stage 1 93 logs, you can see a dip in boost request right before it peaks. I believe they added this in v2.0 to prevent throttle closures. I still hit 17.5psi though. Yours just goes much higher.

I feel like boost control itself needs some work. I'm not sure what the issue could be with an electronic wastegate. It should be extremely responsive and reliable. But something about catless downpipes have been causing boost control issues since the JB4 days.
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      10-14-2019, 02:34 PM   #137
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Stg 2 93 with Fuel-It CPI kit installed.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da3aa3aae729b1b6cd878b0

Not sure why my ignition is all over the place and why I had one instance of knock. Been using the same quality gas. Maybe just bad gas? Car still feels like its pulling hard.
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      10-14-2019, 03:04 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Stg 2 93 with Fuel-It CPI kit installed.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da3aa3aae729b1b6cd878b0

Not sure why my ignition is all over the place and why I had one instance of knock. Been using the same quality gas. Maybe just bad gas? Car still feels like its pulling hard.
I had better results from Shell 93 Vpower

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da22783ae729b1b6cd8747b

I do get that knock at times in the early band too...

Whats the major difference from stage 1 VS 2 ? looks like the same boost targets. I was thinking of trying stage 1 91 octane with 93 gas to eliminate any knocks but don't know what it will do to the power...

I did back to back Dragy runs. same day within an hour of the tune

Stock = 4.3 0-60
Stage 1 93 = 3.9 0-60 (3.8 flat = my best / 3.5 one foot roll out)
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      10-14-2019, 09:31 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Stg 2 93 with Fuel-It CPI kit installed.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da3aa3aae729b1b6cd878b0

Not sure why my ignition is all over the place and why I had one instance of knock. Been using the same quality gas. Maybe just bad gas? Car still feels like its pulling hard.
Hi, thanks for posting.

I don't understand the Load Target in the logging for BM3 maps. With MHD Stage 2 I have Load Target of 180 flat as soon as the pedal is 100% for target boost of about 17 - 18 PSI. The BM3 Load Target looks more like a boost curve.

Your HPFP pressure is dropping to <2300 PSI at 3600 RPM.

With the MHD Stage 2 95 octane/102 RON map using 93 octane gas my HPFP rail pressure stays at target 2800 - 2900 PSI.

The MHD map is at about 16.5 PSI at 3600 RPM and ramps to 19 PSI by 6000 RPM. Using E30 on the same map my HPFP drops to around 2300 - 2400 PSI at 3600 RPM
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      10-15-2019, 10:22 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Stg 2 93 with Fuel-It CPI kit installed.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da3aa3aae729b1b6cd878b0

Not sure why my ignition is all over the place and why I had one instance of knock. Been using the same quality gas. Maybe just bad gas? Car still feels like its pulling hard.
Is your injector hooked up and running? What do the tables look like?

My guess is that it's demanding too much from the lpfp when it turns on around 3000rpm and that's causing the dip in hpfp pressure, but it recovers pretty quickly.You want to make sure there's a gradual onset.

Also reset adaptations after driving for a while, if you haven't already. I'm not sure if there's a "break-in" for the new injector, but the spray pattern and amount of fuel getting to each cylinder will be different. Typically cylinder 6 will get less fuel than cylinder 1 and 2 since it's farther from the throttle body.
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      10-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Is your injector hooked up and running? What do the tables look like?

My guess is that it's demanding too much from the lpfp when it turns on around 3000rpm and that's causing the dip in hpfp pressure, but it recovers pretty quickly.You want to make sure there's a gradual onset.

Also reset adaptations after driving for a while, if you haven't already. I'm not sure if there's a "break-in" for the new injector, but the spray pattern and amount of fuel getting to each cylinder will be different. Typically cylinder 6 will get less fuel than cylinder 1 and 2 since it's farther from the throttle body.
Hey Kern appreciate the feedback as always. Yes, the kit is installed, but I still havent been able to log in to the R4 software for the AIC1 controller because the software came on a CD and my laptop doesnt have a CD player. Also, the software is not downloadble online. I have asked for Fuel-It to send me a the .exe file so I can get it setup tonight. I also got my custom E85 map from F80Paul, but wont flash it until I finalized the AIC1 controller. I'll keep you posted and will do a full review once everything is dialed in.
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      10-15-2019, 01:44 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Hey Kern appreciate the feedback as always. Yes, the kit is installed, but I still havent been able to log in to the R4 software for the AIC1 controller because the software came on a CD and my laptop doesnt have a CD player. Also, the software is not downloadble online. I have asked for Fuel-It to send me a the .exe file so I can get it setup tonight. I also got my custom E85 map from F80Paul, but wont flash it until I finalized the AIC1 controller. I'll keep you posted and will do a full review once everything is dialed in.
Got it. That likely bunks my thoughts then if it's not even running yet. the drop in hpfp pressure is surprising. but we'll see once you get everything going.
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      10-15-2019, 01:47 PM   #143
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Quote:
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Got it. That likely bunks my thoughts then if it's not even running yet. the drop in hpfp pressure is surprising. but we'll see once you get everything going.
To be fair, it could be running because the controller comes flashed from Fuel-It already and everything is wired up. So, my assumption is that it actually is running on the base map provided, but as you said, I'll know for sure tonight.
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      10-15-2019, 06:33 PM   #144
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Did one more pull on Stg 2 93 before I confirm the AIC1 controller is working and flash to the E85 map.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da644edae729b1b6cd87fbd

Not sure why my boost is dropping to 11.8 psi at the top of third. Could that be a boost leak?
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      10-15-2019, 10:07 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid67 View Post
Did one more pull on Stg 2 93 before I confirm the AIC1 controller is working and flash to the E85 map.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da644edae729b1b6cd87fbd

Not sure why my boost is dropping to 11.8 psi at the top of third. Could that be a boost leak?
If Load Target is correct in the logs then I think your cars getting the boost that's demanded by the map. Deselect all parameters except Accel Pedal, Load Actual, Load Target and MAP (PSI) when viewing the log.

Load Target of 191 at 3200 RPM will give you about 19 PSI of boost which the car got and at 6500 RPM Load Target is 130 generating about 12 PSI boost.

It looks like the CPI kicked in between 2900 RPM and 3600 RPM as AFR dipped. Maybe it needs to spray more and a little earlier to support the HPFP better and adaptions need to be reset?

I'd be looking to sort the Load Target/Boost curve first, then sort the fueling for E85 or whatever E blend you want to run.

If it was me I'd have 2 maps. Map 1 with 16 - 18 PSI (ramping) on 93 octane/E30 without CPI contributing. You'll have less timing advance when using 93 and more timing advance with E30 and HPFP pressure will be less than target, but still be OK as long as you don't get greedy with ethanol content. Map 2 with 22 PSI flat on E85 with support from the CPI. I assume you'd need to flash both DME and AIC1 controller when switching back and forth.
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      10-25-2019, 06:53 AM   #146
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When I export my logs to a CSV I have multiple occasions when in the KNOCK DETECTED column the number ''10'' appears instead of ''0''. Does this mean my engine is detecting knock?
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      10-25-2019, 07:02 AM   #147
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When I export my logs to a CSV I have multiple occasions when in the KNOCK DETECTED column the number ''10'' appears instead of ''0''. Does this mean my engine is detecting knock?
Yes, but feel free to confirm with your tuner. Another indication is if your timing suddenly drops on one of the cylinders.
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      10-26-2019, 06:02 PM   #148
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Data logs from 2 drag strip runs. I was using manual logging and forgot to activate for the 11.5 second run

There are 2 logs in the link, the one that starts in Gear 2 was 11.689@121.14 and the one that starts in Gear 1 was 11.701@121.31

Overall looks pretty good. In the 2nd gear launch run there was quite a bit of wheelspin when boost peaked in 2nd gear, dropping boost and timing. Cylinder 1 dropped some timing at 5500rpm, but otherwise pretty clean and boost overall seems to 19 - 19.5 PSI in 4th and 5th and AFR's pretty safe at 12.5 up top. The first gear launch run saw cylinder 1 & 2 drop a bit of timing in 4th gear, but nothing dramatic and the DME liked what it saw.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-dra...20-21-22-23-24
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      10-29-2019, 12:36 AM   #149
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Flashed the car from ver 2.7 to ver 3.0 of the same MHD OTS 95/102 map which MHD say has some optimizations and is stronger.

This is a 3rd gear run and it's only 1 run and 3rd gear rather than 4th, but maybe boost is a bit lower and timing is higher, hitting 16.5 degrees at 6500RPM. Virtual Dyno shows identical numbers to ver 2.7 for HP and torque.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-3rd....43&tmax=36.93
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      10-29-2019, 12:08 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Data logs from 2 drag strip runs. I was using manual logging and forgot to activate for the 11.5 second run

There are 2 logs in the link, the one that starts in Gear 2 was 11.689@121.14 and the one that starts in Gear 1 was 11.701@121.31

Overall looks pretty good. In the 2nd gear launch run there was quite a bit of wheelspin when boost peaked in 2nd gear, dropping boost and timing. Cylinder 1 dropped some timing at 5500rpm, but otherwise pretty clean and boost overall seems to 19 - 19.5 PSI in 4th and 5th and AFR's pretty safe at 12.5 up top. The first gear launch run saw cylinder 1 & 2 drop a bit of timing in 4th gear, but nothing dramatic and the DME liked what it saw.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-dra...20-21-22-23-24
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Flashed the car from ver 2.7 to ver 3.0 of the same MHD OTS 95/102 map which MHD say has some optimizations and is stronger.

This is a 3rd gear run and it's only 1 run and 3rd gear rather than 4th, but maybe boost is a bit lower and timing is higher, hitting 16.5 degrees at 6500RPM. Virtual Dyno shows identical numbers to ver 2.7 for HP and torque.

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-3rd....43&tmax=36.93
Thanks for the additional data. So you're running a Stage 2 95 map, but using E30 fuel in the tank? Or running a stage 2 E30 map?

You should try shifting above 6k. You still have more power on the table and you're short shifting. Also on v3.0 you aren't quite hitting the target boost.

I was having another convo on facebook and it seems like MHD has a bigger difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2 vs. BM3. I still haven't been able to confirm what changes in the BM3 stage 2 tune.
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Last edited by kern417; 10-29-2019 at 12:20 PM..
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      10-29-2019, 09:21 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Thanks for the additional data. So you're running a Stage 2 95 map, but using E30 fuel in the tank? Or running a stage 2 E30 map?

You should try shifting above 6k. You still have more power on the table and you're short shifting. Also on v3.0 you aren't quite hitting the target boost.

I was having another convo on facebook and it seems like MHD has a bigger difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2 vs. BM3. I still haven't been able to confirm what changes in the BM3 stage 2 tune.
I'm using the MHD Stage 2 95 octane/102 RON map but using E30 blend fuel. It gives me the option of running the car on 98 RON (93 octane) without worrying about timing being too aggressive.

I have previously tested leaving the car to shift at the programmed shift points and manually shifting and found I got faster times and better MPH shifting earlier.

For this test session I'd targeted shifting to land around peak torque 4600 RPM after each shift. I have a spreadsheet with the ratios, tire circumference, RPM and speed and was testing a theory. Peak power for this set up is 6200 RPM and torque is dropping quickly after 6000 RPM.

Run 1 changes were, second gear launch, 2-3 6589 RPM, 3-4 5932 RPM and 4-5 5887 RPM and the car landed on 4600, 4900 and 4600 RPM. DA was 2400 and higher than the other runs, 60ft was 0.1 slower than the 3rd and fastest run and you can see the wheel spin in 2nd gear. Adjusting for the 60 ft alone this could have been 11.489 with a 1.77 60ft.

Run 2 changes were 1-2 6434 RPM, 2-3 6283 RPM, 3-4 6594 RPM and 4-5 6566 RPM. DA had dropped to 2000, 60ft was 0.147 slower than best run and adjusting for 60ft could have been 11.407 with a 1.77 60ft

I wish I got the data for the 3rd run (DA had dropped to about 1674) but my recollection is that I changed at similar shift points to Run 2, but with the 2nd gear launch.

With the Ver3 log it was the first WOT since flashing the car so maybe there are adaptions required. I'll see how it settles.
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      10-30-2019, 09:44 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
I'm using the MHD Stage 2 95 octane/102 RON map but using E30 blend fuel. It gives me the option of running the car on 98 RON (93 octane) without worrying about timing being too aggressive.

I have previously tested leaving the car to shift at the programmed shift points and manually shifting and found I got faster times and better MPH shifting earlier.

For this test session I'd targeted shifting to land around peak torque 4600 RPM after each shift. I have a spreadsheet with the ratios, tire circumference, RPM and speed and was testing a theory. Peak power for this set up is 6200 RPM and torque is dropping quickly after 6000 RPM.

Run 1 changes were, second gear launch, 2-3 6589 RPM, 3-4 5932 RPM and 4-5 5887 RPM and the car landed on 4600, 4900 and 4600 RPM. DA was 2400 and higher than the other runs, 60ft was 0.1 slower than the 3rd and fastest run and you can see the wheel spin in 2nd gear. Adjusting for the 60 ft alone this could have been 11.489 with a 1.77 60ft.

Run 2 changes were 1-2 6434 RPM, 2-3 6283 RPM, 3-4 6594 RPM and 4-5 6566 RPM. DA had dropped to 2000, 60ft was 0.147 slower than best run and adjusting for 60ft could have been 11.407 with a 1.77 60ft

I wish I got the data for the 3rd run (DA had dropped to about 1674) but my recollection is that I changed at similar shift points to Run 2, but with the 2nd gear launch.

With the Ver3 log it was the first WOT since flashing the car so maybe there are adaptions required. I'll see how it settles.
You should be shifting in the power band though, not the torque band. At least on my dyno, my peak hp was above 6k which typically means you want to stay above 5k after shifts. My torque drops off too, but because RPMs are still rising you still make more hp up top.

What were your times when shifting between 6500-7000? And have you been on a dyno?
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      10-31-2019, 12:03 AM   #153
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Quote:
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You should be shifting in the power band though, not the torque band. At least on my dyno, my peak hp was above 6k which typically means you want to stay above 5k after shifts. My torque drops off too, but because RPMs are still rising you still make more hp up top.

What were your times when shifting between 6500-7000? And have you been on a dyno?
You're correct. I remember watching this Engineering Explained video some time ago, watched it again and then applied the math to my car with data from a recent dyno chart.



The fastest acceleration based on the torque curve and gearing would be by shifting at 7000 RPM as the torque, even though dropping, is multiplied by the gearing. Other variables include not hitting the limiter if shifting manually and what shift points are applied with auto changing.

Shift points and applied torque in Nm by gear looked like this. Yellow areas are the RPM in the next gear after changing at 7000 RPM



I'll have to go back and rev it out
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      10-31-2019, 11:33 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
The fastest acceleration based on the torque curve and gearing would be by shifting at 7000 RPM as the torque, even though dropping, is multiplied by the gearing. Other variables include not hitting the limiter if shifting manually and what shift points are applied with auto changing.

Shift points and applied torque in Nm by gear looked like this. Yellow areas are the RPM in the next gear after changing at 7000 RPM



I'll have to go back and rev it out
I love the data. Where are the applied torque values coming from?
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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