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      10-17-2019, 09:32 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
"Seven million people are at least 90 days behind on their payments, so is the fault with the lenders or people who are living beyond their meansóor both?"

Its difficult for me to even get through the article after reading this question.

This is what's wrong with the American consumer. Nobody forces us as consumers to live outside of our means, no matter how enticing the proposition, sales pitch, financing offer, etc. To say otherwise means either that we 1) lack common sense, 2) are weak willed and willing to make decisions detrimental to our well being, 3) selfish and greedy, 4) easily cajoled or manipulated or 5) all of the above.

If you make a decision, be it financing or something else, own that decision and when/if you fail don't blame the system, predatory lending practices, your neighbor, your bank, your local politician for your inability to live like an adult.

Drives home on days when I read articles like this are sometimes thought provoking. At a red light next to my second-hand mile E92 M3 is a guy in a 2020 M4 CS. He's probably telling his wife how much better performance and luxury the M4 packs against my old M3, but more likely than not, that M4 CS is leased or financed to the hilt. The same guy probably calculates his net worth based on the 50K in his checking account, excluding the 200K in student, auto, rent-a-center and mortgage debt. And his Instagram sure looks good!
This is my exact thoughts on credit cards. Somehow credit cards are evil and make those that possess them to go on uncontrolled spending sprees. Gotta pay cash for everything.

If you're smart about using credit cards, you'll reap the benefits of cash back and other protections which paying in cash won't give you.
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      10-17-2019, 09:33 AM   #134
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I have 4 cars (3 BMWs) and a motorcycle; do I have a problem?
I have a similar problem. Two cars and two motorcycles.
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      10-17-2019, 12:26 PM   #135
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[QUOTE=AlpineWhite_SJ;25352673]Totally agree. Dad wasnít of quite such circumstances but came from modest means and tried to install the value of money at an early age. Canít say I followed it 100% (have to touch the iron for myself to know itís hot), but I screwed up at the right time - college. Graduated with a student loan, credit card debt and bad credit. Spent my 20s living on cash and crawling back out and learned a good lesson on the value of patience, savings and delayed gratification.

Thatís why I donít by the sob stories nowadays on student loans - most have basically a car loanís worth of debt. Itís easily paid off if you stick to a budget and arenít spending a ton of money going out to eat/drink, using the latest gadget, or otherwise spending beyond your means. Those who have 100k+ either went to medical/law/business school and will recoup it over the long haul or made a bad decision to borrow 6 figures for a major that wonít get you a job capable of paying it back easily.

I agree with everything you said here. I was not always great with money either, but I was always more on the conservative side. If I practice what I do now in my 20's - I'd be retired on a beach already.

People are quick to point at others about their $ problems when 99% of them are self inflected. I am often that guy that will interrupt one of these tantrums to ask hard questions about the person throwing them. "see that Starbucks in your hand, how many do you have per week? That coach bag on your shoulder real? Looks like you drove here in a new car?" so when they start telling me how I as a tax payer should pay off their debt - I will quickly point out how they are living higher on the hog than I am - and I am debt free.

Like you said - prioritize your debt and knock it out like we all did.

That just makes you a crusty old guy though - so they don't wanna hear it.
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      10-17-2019, 12:35 PM   #136
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I wonder how my employer is handling their employee insurance coverage. I only pay $145 a month for full family coverage (same amount for as many dependents as you have in your family). This amount also includes dental and vision coverage. The yearly medical deductibles for each person covered is only $250. I would think this is definitely a "Cadillac" plan.
My plan here at work is similar...but it's just me + spouse. Full family coverage here is around $230 a month. But it includes dental and vision as well.

And we are a smaller privately owned business with probably less than 200 total employees spread across 5 places in 3 different countries aside from the US.
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      10-17-2019, 12:54 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by unluky View Post
Those who have 100k+ either went to medical/law/business school and will recoup it over the long haul or made a bad decision to borrow 6 figures for a major that wonít get you a job capable of paying it back easily.
...
People are quick to point at others about their $ problems when 99% of them are self inflected. I am often that guy that will interrupt one of these tantrums to ask hard questions about the person throwing them. "see that Starbucks in your hand, how many do you have per week? That coach bag on your shoulder real? Looks like you drove here in a new car?" so when they start telling me how I as a tax payer should pay off their debt - I will quickly point out how they are living higher on the hog than I am - and I am debt free.
Well said. If people want to hold substantial debt and live expensive lives I am fine with that, to each his own, but do not complain to me about how hard it is to get by or ask for debt to be forgiven because you are irresponsible.
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      10-17-2019, 03:18 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
This is my exact thoughts on credit cards. Somehow credit cards are evil and make those that possess them to go on uncontrolled spending sprees. Gotta pay cash for everything.

If you're smart about using credit cards, you'll reap the benefits of cash back and other protections which paying in cash won't give you.

I agree - I have been on many a vacation paid for using CC points only! Just like anything - you have to use it wisely.
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      12-02-2019, 08:52 AM   #139
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I don't care of the loan is 0%, I'm not going to have a car loan. I'd rather take the money that I was spending on a car loan and buy employee stock at a 15% discount and use that to fund future car purchases. Even if I didn't have this option, I wouldn't get a car loan. I'm fine losing the 1% or whatever is the difference between a savings account and the loan rate.

The only exception to this is when I received $1,000 from Dodge to finance, which I then paid off a month later.
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      12-02-2019, 09:31 AM   #140
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I don't care of the loan is 0%, I'm not going to have a car loan. I'd rather take the money that I was spending on a car loan and buy employee stock at a 15% discount and use that to fund future car purchases. Even if I didn't have this option, I wouldn't get a car loan. I'm fine losing the 1% or whatever is the difference between a savings account and the loan rate.

The only exception to this is when I received $1,000 from Dodge to finance, which I then paid off a month later.
Pros & cons to everything. You could die & never get to spend that $.
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      12-02-2019, 10:28 AM   #141
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I have a similar problem. Two cars and two motorcycles.
Same. 4 cars here. We need rehab.
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      12-02-2019, 12:18 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmclone View Post
I don't care of the loan is 0%, I'm not going to have a car loan. I'd rather take the money that I was spending on a car loan and buy employee stock at a 15% discount and use that to fund future car purchases. Even if I didn't have this option, I wouldn't get a car loan. I'm fine losing the 1% or whatever is the difference between a savings account and the loan rate.

The only exception to this is when I received $1,000 from Dodge to finance, which I then paid off a month later.
Pros & cons to everything. You could die & never get to spend that $.
Or you can live and be broke....

I'd rather not spend the money, take the smart route.
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      12-02-2019, 01:30 PM   #143
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you can die a millionaire with nothing to show for it, or you can live a YOLO lifestyle paycheck to paycheck.


both are dumb. most of us find something in the middle we are comfortable with.

I never lease. never buy new. I buy used after depreciation has hit and always put down 50% or more. Only have 1 car loan out at a time.

my brother is the opposite. makes more money than me. its all in stocks. he drives a mk6 golf r everyday as his only car.
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      12-02-2019, 04:44 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
you can die a millionaire with nothing to show for it, or you can live a YOLO lifestyle paycheck to paycheck.


both are dumb. most of us find something in the middle we are comfortable with.

I never lease. never buy new. I buy used after depreciation has hit and always put down 50% or more. Only have 1 car loan out at a time.

my brother is the opposite. makes more money than me. its all in stocks. he drives a mk6 golf r everyday as his only car.
Years back I use to go to a Mexican restaurant where this nice Mexican lady always made small talks and I listened, she used to show me her brand new truck she had to work hard to afford. I went there again later on and she started making conversations again, she said her husband had left her so she had to send her kid back to Mexico because she couldn't afford the babysitter .... SMH

Really shocking how some people are little informed about personal finance; this is why predatory practices like payday loans, rent to own centers, etc... exist. Terrible stuff.
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      12-02-2019, 10:18 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by dsmclone View Post
I don't care of the loan is 0%, I'm not going to have a car loan. I'd rather take the money that I was spending on a car loan and buy employee stock at a 15% discount and use that to fund future car purchases. Even if I didn't have this option, I wouldn't get a car loan. I'm fine losing the 1% or whatever is the difference between a savings account and the loan rate.

.
I don't understand the logic here, unless you're never buying a car.

If you want to take the money from the car loan and buy stock instead, aren't you implying you would buy the car in-full instead of financing? So (for example) instead of a loan of $30k over 4 years ($625/month), you're going to write a check for $30k.

Had you financed, you could have put that $30k into the stock purchase immediately, and gotten larger returns off the investment (beauty of compound interest), rather than the other scenario where you "save" $625 in monthly payments and put that towards stock over 4 years.

Let's say that stock grew at 5%/year for you. After 4 years of the initial $30k purchase you'd have $36,465.19. On the $625/month approach, assuming a stock purchase of $625 each month over 4 years at the same 5% return it would be $33,942.23. Congrats, refusing the loan just cost you roughly $2500.

I've learned to stay away from these arguments because there's no right answer and no one-sized-fits-all approach, but scenarios like the above make me scratch my head and wonder what I'm missing...
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      12-02-2019, 10:30 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
you can die a millionaire with nothing to show for it, or you can live a YOLO lifestyle paycheck to paycheck.


both are dumb. most of us find something in the middle we are comfortable with.

I never lease. never buy new. I buy used after depreciation has hit and always put down 50% or more. Only have 1 car loan out at a time.

my brother is the opposite. makes more money than me. its all in stocks. he drives a mk6 golf r everyday as his only car.

YOLO all the way!!! Having a blast doing it too. Wife and I always say if and when we have kids that will end. We buy what we want when we want, most of the time we do pay cash though. Currently have 4 car loans but 2 are business and total only 32k so not too bad I guess, especially compared to our income. We do also have a 6 figure positive net worth so I guess we're in the middle. Longest I ever go on a car loan is 60 months but normal is 36 or 48, only at lower interest, and never new.
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      12-03-2019, 12:07 AM   #147
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It's all a house of cards anyway. The entire commerce system depends on people's making rash decisions and getting new and better things over and over. Whether it's cars, clothes, house or gadgets. There's that school of thought about faking it till you make it. When you can afford a Honda, buy a BMW. When you could buy a BMW, get a Bentley. It's being flaunted in popular media. It's ingrained in the yuppie movement. There is even a saying of keeping up with the Jones.

In Tokyo Japan, people have 100 years mortgages where their children would inherit the parents' debt.

Somewhere there has to be a balance. Can you blame individuals for not making sound financial decisions when the government don't even make good financial decions and are always drowning in debt. There's not a single course in school that emphasize making good financial decision.

When I was 18, I was offered $40K in 2 credit cards with zero income. I bet this is going on today. When I first made $100K a year, I was offered a $350K loan to buy a house. I didn't take it but I wonder why the hell a bank would even tempt anyone with this offer.

Credit is like a drug, once you're hooked, you'll always crave more and more.
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      12-03-2019, 08:40 AM   #148
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Debt - Itís not necessarily a question of what I think, it's a question of facts, financial professionals have collected a lot of data through formal research projects ó Iím talking about a huge stockpile of statistics, facts and figures. And all that data shows debt is the biggest roadblock between people and wealth. Iím also a Christian. Having read the Bible, and what it says about money, I can tell you thereís not one place where it says debt is a good idea. As a matter of fact, the Bible says "The debtor is slave to the lender." and I cannot think of a more accurate description.

So, all that information leads me to one conclusion. Debt is not a positive thing. The only kind of debt I donít beat people up over is mortgage debt, as long as itís a 15-year, fixed-rate loan. Houses are wildly expensive, and I understand that most people canít save up to buy a home with cash in a reasonable amount of time. Still, that doesnít make mortgage debt a good thing.

Any kind of debt is a burden. It steals from your ability to save, build wealth, and be generous.
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      12-03-2019, 10:06 AM   #149
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The only kind of debt I donít beat people up over is mortgage debt, as long as itís a 15-year, fixed-rate loan. Houses are wildly expensive, and I understand that most people canít save up to buy a home with cash in a reasonable amount of time. Still, that doesnít make mortgage debt a good thing.
Or better yet, a 10 year. Talk about a quickly diminishing balance. I highly recommend it to anyone who can afford the monthly payment.
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      12-03-2019, 10:27 AM   #150
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When I first made $100K a year, I was offered a $350K loan to buy a house. I didn't take it but I wonder why the hell a bank would even tempt anyone with this offer.
To me that seems reasonable and agree with most of what you say.
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      12-03-2019, 10:28 AM   #151
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Having read the Bible, and what it says about money, I can tell you thereís not one place where it says debt is a good idea. As a matter of fact, the Bible says "The debtor is slave to the lender." and I cannot think of a more accurate description.
This will do me. Man, words fail me. We're taking the bible for guidance now?
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      12-03-2019, 10:40 AM   #152
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Or you can live and be broke....

I'd rather not spend the money, take the smart route.
Why would you be broke if you bought a car you can afford? Come on, man.

Wages are not keeping up with COL across the board. Just look at the issue of people staying in the wrong/getting into the wrong relationships just to be able to afford rent!
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      12-03-2019, 10:42 AM   #153
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Debt - Itís not necessarily a question of what I think, it's a question of facts, financial professionals have collected a lot of data through formal research projects ó Iím talking about a huge stockpile of statistics, facts and figures. And all that data shows debt is the biggest roadblock between people and wealth. Iím also a Christian. Having read the Bible, and what it says about money, I can tell you thereís not one place where it says debt is a good idea. As a matter of fact, the Bible says "The debtor is slave to the lender." and I cannot think of a more accurate description.

So, all that information leads me to one conclusion. Debt is not a positive thing. The only kind of debt I donít beat people up over is mortgage debt, as long as itís a 15-year, fixed-rate loan. Houses are wildly expensive, and I understand that most people canít save up to buy a home with cash in a reasonable amount of time. Still, that doesnít make mortgage debt a good thing.

Any kind of debt is a burden. It steals from your ability to save, build wealth, and be generous.
So you beat em up over a 30 yr? Seems like a few people here are confused about what 1% actually means in terms of 100%...
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      12-03-2019, 10:45 AM   #154
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Wages are not keeping up with COL across the board.
This is one of the all time great myths. It's 100% not true. People just want more shit.
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