[RobUK]

Well according to this JD Power survey they are: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...dability-study

I think there are various factors that may skew these results, such as the likelihood of owners to do surveys, reports problems, etc., still it makes for interesting reading.

Have to admit, my first F30, an MY 2012 328i was one of the worst cars I ever owned. The amount of time it spent off the road and the number of problems it had (starting with a new gearbox at just 6,000 miles) was just ridiculous. Touch wood, the 340i has been fine so far.

[MickyD'bo]

Based on that survey I'm screwed.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Well according to this JD Power survey they are: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...dability-study

I think there are various factors that may skew these results, such as the likelihood of owners to do surveys, reports problems, etc., still it makes for interesting reading.

Have to admit, my first F30, an MY 2012 328i was one of the worst cars I ever owned. The amount of time it spent off the road and the number of problems it had (starting with a new gearbox at just 6,000 miles) was just ridiculous. Touch wood, the 340i has been fine so far.

There were a surprising number of problems reported with the 328i on this forum a few years ago, particularly given how few members owned one. It could just have been a coincidence.

As we have discussed on this forum before, expectation seems to have a lot to do with customer satisfaction. It is notable that of the 4 VAG brands which share parts, satisfaction seems to correlate with cheapness. The order from high to low satisfaction is - Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, Audi.

That said, there must be something behind BMW's poor performance, even if I haven't experienced it myself. Hopefully gives them a kick up the arse...

[creepy coupe]

A lot of the poor performers are tech laden brands.

[Syntac]

What sort of problems are people reporting in that survey? I'd say that people who buy BMW will complain about the smallest of problems compared to say people who bought a Kia simply because they cost more and expect more quality, which is still a fair point but I don't think it's a fair representation of the brand's reliability if that's the case.

Also I think BMW have one of the best manufacturer warranties compared to some other manufacturers listed in that chart.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Syntac

What sort of problems are people reporting in that survey? I'd say that people who buy BMW will complain about the smallest of problems compared to say people who bought a Kia simply because they cost more and expect more quality, which is still a fair point but I don't think it's a fair representation of the brand's reliability if that's the case.

I'd imagine so. Divs who cant log onto their BMW connected account.

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

A lot of the poor performers are tech laden brands.

Looking at new offerings from Audi or even new VW Toureg with 15" tablet screens I am struggling to find where all that tech is hidden in BMW

They are slowly becoming Apple Inc of motoring world, running out of steam and ideas.......

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

Looking at new offerings from Audi or even new VW Toureg with 15" tablet screens I am struggling to find where all that tech is hidden in BMW

They are slowly becoming Apple Inc of motoring world, running out of steam and ideas.......

I recently drove a 530e. they are bristling with tech.

[Kendo67]

My previous car , 2010 Merc CLS 350d , was the worst car i ever owned regarding faults and repairs. It had covered >40k over its eight years when i sold it a few months back.

I had more issues with it over 54 months of ownership than i had with all the other cars in the household put together over the same period and they were all French at one point , 06 Clio , 57 Scenic , 10 Pug 107 and latterly a Juke which replaced the Scenic.

Kenny

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Kendo67

My previous car , 2010 Merc CLS 350d , was the worst car i ever owned regarding faults and repairs. It had covered >40k over its eight years when i sold it a few months back.

I had more issues with it over 54 months of ownership than i had with all the other cars in the household put together over the same period and they were all French at one point , 06 Clio , 57 Scenic , 10 Pug 107 and latterly a Juke which replaced the Scenic.

Kenny

My point really. A 57 scenic and a 107 aren't exactly dripping with innovations

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

I recently drove a 530e. they are bristling with tech.

best part.... digital cockpit

[Kendo67]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

My point really. A 57 scenic and a 107 aren't exactly dripping with innovations

They dont cost almost £50k either and they still run the same basic (problematic) suspension that the CLS had but without the problems.

The Scenic has a digi dash eleven years ago , an E handbrake , keyless start , total closure locking etc. all of which gave us no issues over five years of ownership.

A 2010 Merc was certainly not a tech-fest even when it was new.

Kenny

[Wills2]

These surveys always mystify me, I've had 10 BMWs over a 15 year period driven over 400,000 miles across them and only had one warranty claim for a wheel with peeling lacquer.

Never had a breakdown or anything break, no limp modes, no idrive issues, nothing mechanical has ever gone wrong, zero reliability problems.

I guess I must be lucky.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Kendo67

They dont cost almost £50k either and they still run the same basic (problematic) suspension that the CLS had but without the problems.

The Scenic has a digi dash eleven years ago , an E handbrake , keyless start , total closure locking etc. all of which gave us no issues over five years of ownership.

A 2010 Merc was certainly not a tech-fest even when it was new.

Kenny

A 1980's Astra GTE had a digi dash

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by Syntac

What sort of problems are people reporting in that survey? I'd say that people who buy BMW will complain about the smallest of problems compared to say people who bought a Kia simply because they cost more and expect more quality, which is still a fair point but I don't think it's a fair representation of the brand's reliability if that's the case.

Also I think BMW have one of the best manufacturer warranties compared to some other manufacturers listed in that chart.

I have both BMW and a KIA. The Kia warranty is 7 years vs BMW's 3 years.

The only warranty problems I've had in both cars have been diamond cut alloys. KIA are still replacing them at year 6, BMW will stop this year, year 3.

Sure the quality of materials in each vehicle is different, but the build isn't much different. The KIA has significantly more standard tech /options than the BMW - note this is different from car tech e.g. vehicle power management.

And being the same owner, I have the same standards and expectations levels for both cars.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

I have both BMW and a KIA. The Kia warranty is 7 years vs BMW's 3 years.

The only warranty problems I've had in both cars have been diamond cut alloys. KIA are still replacing them at year 6, BMW will stop this year, year 3.

Sure the quality of materials in each vehicle is different, but the build isn't much different. The KIA has significantly more standard tech /options than the BMW - note this is different from car tech e.g. vehicle power management.

And being the same owner, I have the same standards and expectations levels for both cars.

The KIA warranty is a diminishing level of cover though isn't it?

[Syntac]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

I have both BMW and a KIA. The Kia warranty is 7 years vs BMW's 3 years.

The only warranty problems I've had in both cars have been diamond cut alloys. KIA are still replacing them at year 6, BMW will stop this year, year 3.

Sure the quality of materials in each vehicle is different, but the build isn't much different. The KIA has significantly more standard tech /options than the BMW - note this is different from car tech e.g. vehicle power management.

And being the same owner, I have the same standards and expectations levels for both cars.

Does it cover as much as the comprehensive cover from BMW, as that pretty much covers everything up to 100K miles? It might have the tech on paper but from what I've seen on cars similarly priced, the quality of the tech isn't even worth the option. i.e. their media/nav system vs iDrive. Or comparing climate control effectiveness for example.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Wills2

These surveys always mystify me, I've had 10 BMWs over a 15 year period driven over 400,000 miles across them and only had one warranty claim for a wheel with peeling lacquer.

Never had a breakdown or anything break, no limp modes, no idrive issues, nothing mechanical has ever gone wrong, zero reliability problems.

I guess I must be lucky.

I do believe you've had a good run. My experience over the last 3 examples, BMW don't rate at all well for reliability or longevity. All sorts of small niggles, issues, and premature failures. You wouldn't want to see my list of warranty repairs over the three cars.

An idea of the annoying type of failure, includes a flat bed recovery due to a Comfort Access door handle failure, shorting the electrics. Plus a second door handle has failed since. Something like door handles... you don't expect them to fail. You can only put it down to poor quality.

Premature failure of both rear air springs, (~40k miles), common problem with BMW over 20 years and they still can't get it right. That's where users get niggled and expect more.

I drive with mechanical sympathy, don't expect perfection, (lived with a paint run on my 330d), try and keep an unprejudiced view of any car.

I've had friends say "why do you keep buying them?, when much cheaper cars can be more reliable".

On the larger subject, I agree on "expectations", BMW don't have a good track record, getting worse as cars get more complex.

[Soul_Glo]

The E9X platform was probably a large contribution to this. Jumped timing chains, failing coil packs, fires caused by overload... and to think some of those issues made it into the F3X. Lying bastads.

[mikeoz]

Most German brands don't do well in these type of surveys

[XK140]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

The KIA warranty is a diminishing level of cover though isn't it?

What about Toyota's 5 year/ 100k miles warranty?...

...which might diminish,I haven't checked,but if it doesn't it would confirm my gut feeling that they are generally more reliable than the German brands.

[FSE23]

One factor is people expectations. Those driving Hyundai do not expect a lot IMHO, so they do not bother with rattles, peeling of plastic, etc while people driving premium cars would claim almost every imperfection. So that would be one of the factors I suppose