[Conntron]

For all the bootmod3 guys here. What gas and maps are you guys using. I'm using stage 2 91 octane with shell 91 & sent a data log to PTF. They said my gas is really bad. They are suggesting trying Petro 94 with stage 2 93 flash or trying the stage 2 ACN91 map with shell 91. FBO M235i here. Curious what you guys are having success with.

[thejeremyman9]

Can you post your log that you sent them?

Their suggestion sounds reasonable. If you have access to 94 why not run it all the time? Is there a substantial price difference or limited access?

[Conntron]

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee9...729b70aebc043e

^^^^ this is the log I sent them.
And the main reason is I have 91 gas stations all around me and the only petro 94 access I have is quite a hassle to get too. Especially for every time I fill the car.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Conntron

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee9...729b70aebc043e

^^^^ this is the log I sent them.
And the main reason is I have 91 gas stations all around me and the only petro 94 access I have is quite a hassle to get too. Especially for every time I fill the car.

Are you 6MT or 8AT? You really need a "proper" log, 2500-6k or 6500 rpm at WOT in 3rd if 6MT or 4th if 8AT, start log before WOT and end right after you hit 6500 and let off. It looks like you spun 2nd gear in that log then shifted into 3rd and continued on.

Timing isnt great in the log, but its also not totally horrible. It would probably be better on the ACN map though as they said.

I would say go out and get 2 "proper" logs, evaluate the timing, and go from there. Their recommendations is definitely the 'safest' way to go though.

[Pray for Mojo]

Need to be more specific on your location, it varies by locale.

[Conntron]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Are you 6MT or 8AT? You really need a "proper" log, 2500-6k or 6500 rpm at WOT in 3rd if 6MT or 4th if 8AT, start log before WOT and end right after you hit 6500 and let off. It looks like you spun 2nd gear in that log then shifted into 3rd and continued on.

Timing isnt great in the log, but its also not totally horrible. It would probably be better on the ACN map though as they said.

I would say go out and get 2 "proper" logs, evaluate the timing, and go from there. Their recommendations is definitely the 'safest' way to go though.

Okay thank you for your help.
Here is another data log I don't recall which had a better pull this or the previous one.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee9...90c62a22b5a132

Honestly I'm not concerned at all about the little bit of extra power for the 93 tune. I just want what's 'safest' for my engine. That's all that I'm concerned for. Whatever that takes I will do. Would you recommenced the acn 91 stage 2 or the 93 stage 2?
Also I'm located about an hour north of Toronto Ontario.
Transmission is 6mt rwd

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Conntron

Okay thank you for your help.
Here is another data log I don't recall which had a better pull this or the previous one.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee9...90c62a22b5a132

Honestly I'm not concerned at all about the little bit of extra power for the 93 tune. I just want what's 'safest' for my engine. That's all that I'm concerned for. Whatever that takes I will do. Would you recommenced the acn 91 stage 2 or the 93 stage 2?
Also I'm located about an hour north of Toronto Ontario.
Transmission is 6mt rwd

The potential power level of the tunes would be: ACN < 91 < 93

If you are going to run 91 pump gas, in theory the ACN is the "safest" because its going to target the lowest timing. But the DME is very good at pulling timing so its not like running the 91 tune is going to instantly blow your engine, but again its always safer to run a more conservative timing map if fuel quality is an issue.

We have no data to know whether or not you could run the 93 map with 94 gas or not. You would need to run your tank to nearly empty, fill up with 94, flash the 93 map, drive for a bit, then do a few logs on that map to see how timing looks. But if you dont want to go through the hassle of getting 94 all the time, that might be a moot point.

[Conntron]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The potential power level of the tunes would be: ACN < 91 < 93

If you are going to run 91 pump gas, in theory the ACN is the "safest" because its going to target the lowest timing. But the DME is very good at pulling timing so its not like running the 91 tune is going to instantly blow your engine, but again its always safer to run a more conservative timing map if fuel quality is an issue.

We have no data to know whether or not you could run the 93 map with 94 gas or not. You would need to run your tank to nearly empty, fill up with 94, flash the 93 map, drive for a bit, then do a few logs on that map to see how timing looks. But if you dont want to go through the hassle of getting 94 all the time, that might be a moot point.

Thank you very much for your input and quick responses. I appreciate the help. I'm going to decide which option to try and then I will post further data logs. Car also has n20 spark plugs gapped it .022, forgot to mention that. I have been running stage 1 91 octane for the last year because I wanted to ensure long term reliability, which is still a concern of mine. So I'm leaning towards the acn 91 tune for that reason. The acn 91 stage 2 tune mentions "beta" is this something to be concerned about ? Also running 94 octane with a 91 tune is that acceptable ? Or just time fill ups accordingly if wanting to use higher octane than 91

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Conntron

Thank you very much for your input and quick responses. I appreciate the help. I'm going to decide which option to try and then I will post further data logs. Car also has n20 spark plugs gapped it .022, forgot to mention that. I have been running stage 1 91 octane for the last year because I wanted to ensure long term reliability, which is still a concern of mine. So I'm leaning towards the acn 91 tune for that reason. The acn 91 stage 2 tune mentions "beta" is this something to be concerned about ? Also running 94 octane with a 91 tune is that acceptable ? Or just time fill ups accordingly if wanting to use higher octane than 91

Using higher octane gas than what the tune calls for is always safe (but obviously dont do the other way around). It should also clean up your timing. So you could definitely try the 91 tune on 94 gas.

What are the N20 plugs? The NGKs?

I just don't think they prioritize the ACN tune since its sort of a "on request" tune and not widely used. If they say its safe... it should be fine lol.

[TurboCanadian]

I dont want to thread hijack. But I am in almost the same boat with bad gas here in Canada. I am running the ACN91 tune from BM3 on my stock 435i and I am having the same issues. I have been talking with PTF about what we can do, as using even shell 91 here is terrible. I recently filled up about half a tank with some chevron 94 and here are my logs I tried today:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eef...729b70aebc190a

It was only in 3rd gear as I couldn't find any place nearby that I could run 4th gear out.

I am hoping to maybe try mixing a bit of E85 this week as we have a single station here that sells it, but I am waiting to hear back from PTF to see what they say.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

I dont want to thread hijack. But I am in almost the same boat with bad gas here in Canada. I am running the ACN91 tune from BM3 on my stock 435i and I am having the same issues. I have been talking with PTF about what we can do, as using even shell 91 here is terrible. I recently filled up about half a tank with some chevron 94 and here are my logs I tried today:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eef...729b70aebc190a

It was only in 3rd gear as I couldn't find any place nearby that I could run 4th gear out.

I am hoping to maybe try mixing a bit of E85 this week as we have a single station here that sells it, but I am waiting to hear back from PTF to see what they say.

Yeah timing doesnt look great. Not the worst i have ever seen (no negative values) but definitely not clean. Its also possible you are still finishing up winter blend gas and it will improve slightly in the summer. It will help, if you can, to get two 4th gear logs so we can confirm the timing is repeatable and not just a bad run.

Did you add the half tank of 94 to half a tank of 91? Or was this all 94?

E85 is a great option if you have it. It's also worth getting one of the test kits to test your E85 content so you know how much to mix, especially if you plan to do it long term. I ordered the fuel-it one on amazon. Its just a little glass jar you use (i.e., not a sensor you wire in).

Also, gonna put a plug for my new datalogging thread incase you want to learn
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

[TurboCanadian]

This was done with half a tank of 94. im going to try and refill later with all 94 once this tank is empty. Then depending on those results, I will go get some e85 and try some mixing.

Thanks for the heads up on testing E85. ill make sure to get one. Also funny enough I was just reading the thread on how to read logs this morning .

As for blending E85, is there a good guideline on how much to fill? This car is my DD so im not sure if I want to try amd mix for E30 all the time. Maybe just help it to run the regular 91 or 93 tune.

I will see if I can find a good place to do some 4th gear pulls. I think ill just need to drive little ways out of town and find a quiet road to go that fast on.

[DreamerJoe]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

This was done with half a tank of 94. im going to try and refill later with all 94 once this tank is empty. Then depending on those results, I will go get some e85 and try some mixing.

Thanks for the heads up on testing E85. ill make sure to get one. Also funny enough I was just reading the thread on how to read logs this morning .

As for blending E85, is there a good guideline on how much to fill? This car is my DD so im not sure if I want to try amd mix for E30 all the time. Maybe just help it to run the regular 91 or 93 tune.

I will see if I can find a good place to do some 4th gear pulls. I think ill just need to drive little ways out of town and find a quiet road to go that fast on.

I usually put 3-3.5 gallons of e85 per fill up and the timing in my logs look good. I live in Southern California so my gas isn't great either, and the mix would put me at ~93oct for my 91oct tune. I've never tested the e85 gas either so it "should" be putting me @ 93, regardless it definitley still cleans up the 91oct.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

This was done with half a tank of 94. im going to try and refill later with all 94 once this tank is empty. Then depending on those results, I will go get some e85 and try some mixing.

Thanks for the heads up on testing E85. ill make sure to get one. Also funny enough I was just reading the thread on how to read logs this morning .

As for blending E85, is there a good guideline on how much to fill? This car is my DD so im not sure if I want to try amd mix for E30 all the time. Maybe just help it to run the regular 91 or 93 tune.

I will see if I can find a good place to do some 4th gear pulls. I think ill just need to drive little ways out of town and find a quiet road to go that fast on.

The calculation to determine E% in your tank is simple if you know the ethanol content of your pump gas and that of your E85. Not sure about canada, but USA pump gas has 0-10% ethanol, and E85 is typically 60-85%. If you are just looking to boost octane for a pump gas map (and not run an actual E mix map), putting 3 gallons in to an otherwise full tank of pump gas is a good starting point as mentioned above. Without testing the fuel coming out of the pump, you really have no idea the actual E content in your tank (nor the octane), but it will certainly be more than crappy 91.

The only drawback to adding ethanol into a pump gas map is your fueling will be off (lower energy density of ethanol) so you need to watch your STFTs.

[TurboCanadian]

Thanks for all the info. Ill put it too good use. Ill grab a bunch of logs with some pure 94 this week and some e85 mixes after and see how it goes.

[randyf32]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

Thanks for all the info. Ill put it too good use. Ill grab a bunch of logs with some pure 94 this week and some e85 mixes after and see how it goes.

Shell 91 is horrible sadly in our area I stay faaar away from it. Chev 94 has proven to be consistent. All my logs are too old too post so I will grab some next time I'm out on a cruise.

[TurboCanadian]

Well I just filled up with chevron 94 and did a 3rd gear pull. Results were....not great. Thought there still is a bit of 91 in there. I did fill it with 50L of 94 so well see if I fill up another tank and get some more logs in this tank. Makes tuning so disappointing when our fuel is this bad. My only saving grace is I might be able to get some E85. Though I might be moving to Edmonton in a few months so not sure if ill be able to get anymore of that out there.

Here is my 50L of Chevron 94 with Shell 91 previously in there log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ef8...90c61189c02c80

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

Well I just filled up with chevron 94 and did a 3rd gear pull. Results were....not great. Thought there still is a bit of 91 in there. I did fill it with 50L of 94 so well see if I fill up another tank and get some more logs in this tank. Makes tuning so disappointing when our fuel is this bad. My only saving grace is I might be able to get some E85. Though I might be moving to Edmonton in a few months so not sure if ill be able to get anymore of that out there.

Here is my 50L of Chevron 94 with Shell 91 previously in there log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ef8...90c61189c02c80

Yeah timing in that log is pretty bad... i feel your pain with crappy 91 gas here in California as well. Thats why i switched to E30 and the ethanol map; its worth having to mix at each fillup.

How much 91 was left and how far did you drive after filling up? At least a few miles to get the new fuel mixed and to the engine?

Try to run nearly empty and add the 94.

EDIT: Also, how many miles on plugs and what gap?

[TurboCanadian]

I put in about 50L of 94 which should have left me with about 10L of 91. I did drive for about 10 mins to mix the fuel. I'll give it a shot later this week and then try and get the tank lower to completely remove as much of the 91 as I can.

I have about 44,000kms on the car and I don't think the plugs have been replaced. Unless it was part of the regular maintenance up to this point, I have not touched them. So I cant say I know what the gap might be. Do you think changing the gap or replacing the plugs would help at all?

[Pray for Mojo]

Spark plugs don't really make a big difference. I'm surprised the ACN91 map is this bad. If you can't find ethanol you might need to get boostane. Have you tried Petro Ultra94?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TurboCanadian

I put in about 50L of 94 which should have left me with about 10L of 91. I did drive for about 10 mins to mix the fuel. I'll give it a shot later this week and then try and get the tank lower to completely remove as much of the 91 as I can.

I have about 44,000kms on the car and I don't think the plugs have been replaced. Unless it was part of the regular maintenance up to this point, I have not touched them. So I cant say I know what the gap might be. Do you think changing the gap or replacing the plugs would help at all?

Yeah 44k km is not much for oem plugs, i ran them up to 45k miles on MHD stage 2+ 91 tune and was able to get logs with perfect timing (occasionally) on California 91. Giving the behavior its likely fuel quality. I wouldnt worry about the plugs unless getting E85 or some truly high quality fuel doesnt improve timing.

[BMW435xDrive]

Wait so Shell V Power 91 in Canada is bad? I was hoping it being ethanol free it would be the best option for our cars.