[MissionPerformance]

For months now we have been asked about updates on the new HPFP upgrade for our B58, and now its time for us to come out and give you some updated info.
In the end of the last year we have started working on a fully custom HPFP for our engines, in a way similar to something that is already available by other manufactures for the N55 motor. The first prototype was built and tested to yield about 10-12% improvement over stock B58 version, and came at a hefty price-tag. Because of that price, that was not something we could release to our customers, so that plan was scrapped until we got a hold of G20 B58 variant. That pump, on paper, has about 15% flow increase at higher pressure, so it seemed as an optimal solution. The first test unit went into our test vehicle in June, but quickly we realized there are clearances issues as the pump piston has different stroke and uses much wider cam follower. The pump was modified to fit our factory cam follower, and in it went.
Right off the bat, we discovered that because of difference of strokes of both pumps, the factory programming will not work as the pump would attempt to over-pressurizer the system, nearly damaging the injectors. Only solution to correct that issue was to rewrite pump controlling parameters from scratch specifically for this pump. And to make things much worse, new generation B58 runs at 35mPa, while we run at 20mPa, so none of the mapping found on the G20 computer could be carried over.

And now, finally at the end of July, after weeks and weeks of dialing in the pump, we can safely say that our programming is capable of supporting the 35mPa pump on the 20mPa system. With this programming, anyone can install a B58D pump (still requires some hardware modification), and have a much more robust fuel system.

Now that the pump programming and hardware aspect are done, we can FINALLY safely push the E85 support forward. Today I have tested E60 mixture at 20.6psi and only 5degrees of timing with great result. On top of the fuel pressure being rock solid at 20mPa, we were able to achieve that running a ridiculously safe 0.92lambda.

With that being the case, I decided to grab Draggy and do few pulls to see what this boat can do. Being at over 4400lb, I was hoping for very low 12s, but I was gladly surprised by a 11.74s at 3700da, even though (as you can see by the speed chart), I let go a bit too early. Not bad for a heavy wagon.

Here is a datalog result from the E60 mixture as well as a Draggy numbers
DataZap:
https://datazap.me/u/missiontuning/b...lo=8&zoom=1-73

Draggy:



Full E85 support is coming soon as well, after some extensive testing. As we have said from the day the B58 flashing was released by us, the stock HPFP can NOT flow enough volume to support full E85. Once the high pressure drops, the DME will attempt to increase injector open time in order to hit the lambda. With increased On-Time for the injectors, you are stressing out not only the engine components, but also the physical DME. You push your car enough on full E85 and low Fuel Pressure, and you will melt the DME, as seen from the picture below. We were capable of running full E85 on B58 back in October, but on stock HPFP, this is way too dangerous and irresponsible due to the physical flow limitations. Combine that with completely different knock characteristics of E85, and you are just asking for trouble.

Doing 20 full E85 pulls back to back pulls on stock pump results in melted DME:

[Solid67]

Damn this exactly what I have been looking for. No need for WMI or PI with this option. Congrats to you and the team on all the hard work!

[Solid67]

Any ETA when this will come out and will this only work with MP tune or will it work with BM3/MHD/MG Flasher/AA?

[GT500R]

Pretty good stuff! Couple of questions / comments.

1. With the new pump, if you flash back to stock, will the modified pump work with stock tune?

2. What would the tuning options be with the new pump? E30, E50, E85?

3. Any capabilities to have the tune auto adjust for whatever fuel is added?

4. You are a liar, that 11.74 is with you letting off at the end, probably 11.6

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Pretty good stuff! Couple of questions / comments.

1. With the new pump, if you flash back to stock, will the modified pump work with stock tune?

2. What would the tuning options be with the new pump? E30, E50, E85?

3. Any capabilities to have the tune auto adjust for whatever fuel is added?

4. You are a liar, that 11.74 is with you letting off at the end, probably 11.6

Thanks!
1) Stock tune will (should) adjust for the most part. You might see a bit higher rail pressure at certain times (especailyl during shift at WOT), but for the most the adjustment parameters are sufficient under stock boost/airflow.

2-3) This is where the big issue is, and one of the reasons why we never made Full E85 public. Without E85 sensor, ECU just has no way what type of fuel you are running. Because of that, it only has narrow Ethanol % adjustments possibilities. Once the Portal and iOS app is live, users will be able to input/select E85 blend they are running, and flash will get built specifically to that information. So each time you switch blends, you will have to re-flash.

4) Yeah the car is about 11.6 the way it sits right now, launch at 6psi only. Once we have open Drag Day at Fontana, ill head down there and do few runs.

[PURE340i]

Crazy how some tuners vouched and swore that full e85 or E60 was possible on a stock fuel system without any issues lol

[PURE340i]

Alex is this with a Pure Stage 2 B58 wagon?

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by PURE340i

Crazy how some tuners vouched and swore that full e85 or E60 was possible on a stock fuel system without any issues lol

Possible is way different then executed correctly. We have ran full e85 on S63 and N63 back in 2013, before E85 S55 went viral, but just like with B58, there were fundamental issues. Unlike B58, S63/N63 has water cooling system for the DME that helps keep the board temperature in place and you are not risking melting your computer. On B58 you are running passive cooling, so heat becomes yet another issue especially since of the location of the DME.

From the day one (before any one else even had ability to flash these cars), we explained that B58 can physically run full E85 but only for short periods of time. In bursts (dyno/small pull), the reserve in lines and fuel rails allows you to have barely enough fueling not to miss fire. You see people posting full E85 dynos or saying that setup is daily driven. But you throw that same car on a track and beat on it for 30 minutes non stop, then you will see what happens.

Originally Posted by PURE340i

Alex is this with a Pure Stage 2 B58 wagon?

Yep this is our wagon. The PS2 was great addition and even though we are running same boost as we did with stock turbo, we have a much more efficient turbo now that won't blow out on a track.

[Solid67]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

Possible is way different then executed correctly. We have ran full e85 on S63 and N63 back in 2013, before E85 S55 went viral, but just like with B58, there were fundamental issues. Unlike B58, S63/N63 has water cooling system for the DME that helps keep the board temperature in place and you are not risking melting your computer. On B58 you are running passive cooling, so heat becomes yet another issue especially since of the location of the DME.

From the day one (before any one else even had ability to flash these cars), we explained that B58 can physically run full E85 but only for short periods of time. In bursts (dyno/small pull), the reserve in lines and fuel rails allows you to have barely enough fueling not to miss fire. You see people posting full E85 dynos or saying that setup is daily driven. But you throw that same car on a track and beat on it for 30 minutes non stop, then you will see what happens.




Yep this is our wagon. The PS2 was great addition and even though we are running same boost as we did with stock turbo, we have a much more efficient turbo now that won't blow out on a track.

Do you think running e50 is okay with the stock HPFP?

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by Solid67

Do you think running e50 is okay with the stock HPFP?

I can't run E30 without fuel cut on MP Tune.

I go about 2.5-3 gallons to a full tank for E20 MAX

[Solid67]

Originally Posted by GT500R

I can't run E30 without fuel cut on MP Tune.

I go about 2.5-3 gallons to a full tank for E20 MAX

Wow is that something that has to do with the MP tune? I'm running BM3 stg 1 e30 OTS and ive had several people review my logs. Everything looks perfect. No throttle closure issues and definitely never hit fuel cut. The m240i has a 13.5 gallon tank. I do about 4.5 gallons of e85 to 9 gallons of 93 with 10% ethanol. To be honest, I'm probably right around e33-35.

Here is my latest log from Sunday when I installed the FTP intake pipe/filter and charge pipe.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d351...MXdWJSJzqkAlso

*It was over 100f that day + very humid, so thats the reason IATs were a little high.

[bacon_45]

On a stock hpfp, E60 will still experience fuel pump cut outs. Loud backfire and the car suddenly stopping is how you know you got a nasty fuel pump cut out. E40 is the best for now on hpfp.

[Solid67]

Originally Posted by bacon_45

On a stock hpfp, E60 will still experience fuel pump cut outs. Loud backfire and the car suddenly stopping is how you know you got a nasty fuel pump cut out. E40 is the best for now on hpfp.

Thanks for letting me know so I can at least be aware of what to look out for in the future. Do you run E40 yourself? If so, is that on a custom tune? I have been speaking with F80Paul and he said right now E50 is the sweet spot for the b58 (I'm assuming he means with the stock HPFP).

[MissionPerformance]

E60 mixture on stock HPFP is the maximum limit of the pump's flow ability at about 42lb/min oxygen consumption. At E50, you are coming very close to the limits of the pump, and your Duty Cycles on both HPFP and Injectors will eventually overload the DME. Again, you can do a dyno or two, few street pulls and such without any issues. But put the car on a 30 minute torture test on a real track, and you will see what happens. Call me old fashioned, but I just do not see any reason to risk your motor just to say you can run E50 blend and then deal with issues each time your blend ratio changes.
With a mild blend of E20-E30, you are not over stressing the pump too much, and also you have the advantage of not having to deal with issues when you go down to E10 blend and such.

Another huge risk of high Ethanol % blends is over fueling scenario. Lets say you run a full tank of clean E50 blend, and everything is fine. Now you go to a gas station and fill up to E50 mixture based on your own calculation. But you do not realize that the E85 pump you are at only has E50 fuel to begin with (nearly every E85 station has disclaimer stating that actual ethanol rating of their E85 can be anywhere between 45 to 85%). So in the end of the day, you no longer have E50 in the tank, but E30ish. If you don't give your computer enough time to adapt fuel trims, guess what happens. You will flood your motor and thus bend a rod from over rich mixture. That has happened so many times in the S55 community in the past. If B58s had a factory fitted ethanol sensor, then this would not be an issue and you could run any mix of E85 (with good enough fuel system), but without it, you are just risking your motor. On top of this, E85 has way different knock characteristics and our DME is not equipped to precisely detect the E85 knock, though that is another can of worms. So once again, what is the point of wild E85 mixtures on a system that cant detect E85 content of fuel?

Now, as it has been covered so many times in the past, full E85 is possible even on stock HPFP, given you tank the boost and skyrocket the timing. B58 is a high compression motor, and because of the way BMW designed it, its actually likes more boost vs timing. Doing log after log, and closely monitoring knock sensor input (not knock count), its clear that engine is much happier with lets say 21psi and 7degrees vs 15psi and 17 degrees.

If you look at the log provided above from the BM3 site, you will see your timing in the 13 degrees, and boost at only 16psi. That is only 2.5psi increase over stock MPPSK, but double the timing. That is why you are seeing only 41lb/min. You can do you own research, but since engine is basically a pump and performance can be calculated by the air it consumes, using a base function that is true within few % error, you are only making 410hp. As a contrast, stock MPPSK consumes 1000kg/h 36.7kg/h which translates to 367hp. That is nearly identical to a number of MPPSK results posted on members on these boards. Now, take your vehicle, pump the boost to 21psi, lower the ignition to 7-8degrees at 6200 and you will see oxygen consumption of 47kg or their about.

[chenry]

And while we all have our own opinions on platforms, tuners, secondary tuners etc...for me this is why I am happy to be working with Alex (MP)

He is an innovator, mechanic, a programmer, a tuner, an enthusiast, a driver etc... and the buck stops with him

Complete transparency to boot - when he melts a turbo or a board on his own car he shares and explains and then says why he wouldn't bring it to market - when I asked him "do you mind if I broadcast live a dyno session on my car and grassy's (fellow forum member) he simply said "sure lets see what happens"

Not taking anything away from any of the other tuners but after way too many cars and now in my late 40's I couldn't be happier to have Alex in my corner

Kudos to you Alex - looking forward to transferring my tune to my 2021 M340 next year! Also looking forward to watching you at the drag strip - keep us updated

[bacon_45]

Originally Posted by Solid67

Thanks for letting me know so I can at least be aware of what to look out for in the future. Do you run E40 yourself? If so, is that on a custom tune? I have been speaking with F80Paul and he said right now E50 is the sweet spot for the b58 (I'm assuming he means with the stock HPFP).

Yes, e40 custom tune. e50 would still be too high for me to comfortable running it. I feel like e40 is the safest, just because if you add too much e in accident you won't be stressing the fuel pump.

[enemigo13]

PS2 turbo requires wgdc % to be around 90% to have 1.4 bar at 6000rpm? really?

[GrayB58]

What is everyone’s general measure for E40 or E50?

How many gallons of pump E85 on a 13.7 gallon tank would yield e40 or e50 given its 80 percent and higher content.

[i_m_Andrew]

First off thanks MP for all the R&D work you do. I have been holding off on a tune for now, this fall for sure and it will be a MP.

I had a fully built and custom tuned 15 WRX before my 340i M-sport. 360 whp. Fun car Forsure. Cobb had a flex fuel sensor designed to work with custom tunes so you could fill any combo of e85 you wanted and it would auto-tune, changing timing etc. I think this could solve a lot of issues after the HPFP, same issues on the Subaru platform, is available. Is that even an option for the bmw platforms?

Thanks MP, super jelly over your wagon build. 👍

[SoCalCarGuy]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

E60 mixture on stock HPFP is the maximum limit of the pump's flow ability at about 42lb/min oxygen consumption. At E50, you are coming very close to the limits of the pump, and your Duty Cycles on both HPFP and Injectors will eventually overload the DME. Again, you can do a dyno or two, few street pulls and such without any issues. But put the car on a 30 minute torture test on a real track, and you will see what happens. Call me old fashioned, but I just do not see any reason to risk your motor just to say you can run E50 blend and then deal with issues each time your blend ratio changes.
With a mild blend of E20-E30, you are not over stressing the pump too much, and also you have the advantage of not having to deal with issues when you go down to E10 blend and such.

Another huge risk of high Ethanol % blends is over fueling scenario. Lets say you run a full tank of clean E50 blend, and everything is fine. Now you go to a gas station and fill up to E50 mixture based on your own calculation. But you do not realize that the E85 pump you are at only has E50 fuel to begin with (nearly every E85 station has disclaimer stating that actual ethanol rating of their E85 can be anywhere between 45 to 85%). So in the end of the day, you no longer have E50 in the tank, but E30ish. If you don't give your computer enough time to adapt fuel trims, guess what happens. You will flood your motor and thus bend a rod from over rich mixture. That has happened so many times in the S55 community in the past. If B58s had a factory fitted ethanol sensor, then this would not be an issue and you could run any mix of E85 (with good enough fuel system), but without it, you are just risking your motor. On top of this, E85 has way different knock characteristics and our DME is not equipped to precisely detect the E85 knock, though that is another can of worms. So once again, what is the point of wild E85 mixtures on a system that cant detect E85 content of fuel?

Now, as it has been covered so many times in the past, full E85 is possible even on stock HPFP, given you tank the boost and skyrocket the timing. B58 is a high compression motor, and because of the way BMW designed it, its actually likes more boost vs timing. Doing log after log, and closely monitoring knock sensor input (not knock count), its clear that engine is much happier with lets say 21psi and 7degrees vs 15psi and 17 degrees.

If you look at the log provided above from the BM3 site, you will see your timing in the 13 degrees, and boost at only 16psi. That is only 2.5psi increase over stock MPPSK, but double the timing. That is why you are seeing only 41lb/min. You can do you own research, but since engine is basically a pump and performance can be calculated by the air it consumes, using a base function that is true w

ithin few % error, you are only making 410hp. As a contrast, stock MPPSK consumes 1000kg/h 36.7kg/h which translates to 367hp. That is nearly identical to a number of MPPSK results posted on members on these boards. Now, take your vehicle, pump the boost to 21psi, lower the ignition to 7-8degrees at 6200 and you will see oxygen consumption of 47kg or their about.

do you have a dyno showing that more boost and less timing makes more power?

thank you!

I have bm3, but would switch for more power and better performance.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by SoCalCarGuy

do you have a dyno showing that more boost and less timing makes more power?

I have dynos showing the opposite.
Made more power on less boost comparing MP stage 2 to BM3 OTS e30.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by i_m_Andrew

First off thanks MP for all the R&D work you do. I have been holding off on a tune for now, this fall for sure and it will be a MP.

I had a fully built and custom tuned 15 WRX before my 340i M-sport. 360 whp. Fun car Forsure. Cobb had a flex fuel sensor designed to work with custom tunes so you could fill any combo of e85 you wanted and it would auto-tune, changing timing etc. I think this could solve a lot of issues after the HPFP, same issues on the Subaru platform, is available. Is that even an option for the bmw platforms?

Thanks MP, super jelly over your wagon build. 👍

Flex fuel tuning is available via MHD for N54s.
Apparently was not easy to figure out and uptake was not as big as expected, so I wouldn't expect it for B58s any time soon.