F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Stock turbo XDI 35 map question
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-03-2020, 10:03 PM   #1
mikeycons
Private First Class
mikeycons's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2013 f30 335i Sapphire black D
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: new york

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Stock turbo XDI 35 map question

Hey so I have every basic bolt on through ER and Dinan, but a stock PWG turbo. At the moment I'm using BM3 stage 2 93 Agg tune with my PR coil set. I have reached out to Jordan and F80 Paul in regards to a custom map. J got back to me saying I can make about 420 wheel with an upgraded fuel pump and was just wondering what anyone else is making on a similar set up. I do have an XDI 35 that I'm going to install soon. Side note the only e85 station near me is 30mins away. Could I possibly max the stock turbo out ? Anything I google is paired with PS2 so I'm at a loss there and decided to come here.
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2020, 11:40 PM   #2
thejeremyman9
Colonel
thejeremyman9's Avatar
1139
Rep
2,402
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

He said you can make 420whp with PWG? That seems a bit high... even for a custom tune on E. Maybe if you run a really high E mix and alot of timing to compensate for the smaller turbo.

There's no doubt you will max out PWG turbo with a custom tune and HPFP upgrade... but a pwg making that much power seems a little farfetched.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 12:04 AM   #3
mikeycons
Private First Class
mikeycons's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2013 f30 335i Sapphire black D
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: new york

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
He said you can make 420whp with PWG? That seems a bit high... even for a custom tune on E. Maybe if you run a really high E mix and alot of timing to compensate for the smaller turbo.

There's no doubt you will max out PWG turbo with a custom tune and HPFP upgrade... but a pwg making that much power seems a little farfetched.
I was thinking the same thing. The email reply came from someone on his team not directly from his team in regards to my inquiry in a custom tune.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #4
DreamerJoe
Captain
United_States
215
Rep
716
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeycons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
He said you can make 420whp with PWG? That seems a bit high... even for a custom tune on E. Maybe if you run a really high E mix and alot of timing to compensate for the smaller turbo.

There's no doubt you will max out PWG turbo with a custom tune and HPFP upgrade... but a pwg making that much power seems a little farfetched.
I was thinking the same thing. The email reply came from someone on his team not directly from his team in regards to my inquiry in a custom tune.
BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.
__________________
MG F30 M-Sport 6mt FBO w/ MHD stage 2 plus (PWG), ST XA Coilovers, 19" VMR V804.
Appreciate 1
      08-04-2020, 11:50 AM   #5
thejeremyman9
Colonel
thejeremyman9's Avatar
1139
Rep
2,402
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.
Yeah, i know, and that was on 93 i believe. His graph also looked terrible in terms of area under the curve. I suspect with PWG it would be even worse, with a peak then sharp fall off.

I agree with getting an inlet, i am a big advocate now... MST v2 all the way.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 12:25 PM   #6
DreamerJoe
Captain
United_States
215
Rep
716
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.
Yeah, i know, and that was on 93 i believe. His graph also looked terrible in terms of area under the curve. I suspect with PWG it would be even worse, with a peak then sharp fall off.

I agree with getting an inlet, i am a big advocate now... MST v2 all the way.
yea even 400whp is a bit promising for a PWG. I really wish BMW had either a better location for the turbo or not have it welded as a single peice with the turbofold.. the main thing keeping me from going PS2 for my PWG is it's hard to justify spending over 1,000 on labor for something I don't really need..
__________________
MG F30 M-Sport 6mt FBO w/ MHD stage 2 plus (PWG), ST XA Coilovers, 19" VMR V804.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 04:07 PM   #7
5w20
Private
18
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: Bmw 435i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeycons View Post
Hey so I have every basic bolt on through ER and Dinan, but a stock PWG turbo. At the moment I'm using BM3 stage 2 93 Agg tune with my PR coil set. I have reached out to Jordan and F80 Paul in regards to a custom map. J got back to me saying I can make about 420 wheel with an upgraded fuel pump and was just wondering what anyone else is making on a similar set up. I do have an XDI 35 that I'm going to install soon. Side note the only e85 station near me is 30mins away. Could I possibly max the stock turbo out ? Anything I google is paired with PS2 so I'm at a loss there and decided to come here.
I wouldn't recommend a custom tune without going to a custom ethanol tune or if you're adding Methanol to your 91/93 pump gas tune. Straight pump gas would be a waste of money IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.
Key missing note is that was accomplished with METH.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 04:27 PM   #8
thejeremyman9
Colonel
thejeremyman9's Avatar
1139
Rep
2,402
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5w20 View Post
I wouldn't recommend a custom tune without going to a custom ethanol tune or if you're adding Methanol to your 91/93 pump gas tune. Straight pump gas would be a waste of money IMO.



Key missing note is that was accomplished with METH.
Agree that gains on pump gas with custom tune will not really be worth it. Too much of a octane limit and you need timing to make power.

Are you sure BMWDIYGUY runs meth? I dont follow dyno numbers really, so could be wrong, but i dont recall him mentioning it in his mod list... someone will need to dig up the thread.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 04:42 PM   #9
5w20
Private
18
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: Bmw 435i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Agree that gains on pump gas with custom tune will not really be worth it. Too much of a octane limit and you need timing to make power.

Are you sure BMWDIYGUY runs meth? I dont follow dyno numbers really, so could be wrong, but i dont recall him mentioning it in his mod list... someone will need to dig up the thread.
I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 05:22 PM   #10
ZM2
Colonel
1318
Rep
2,057
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5w20 View Post
I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.
Dynocom, not a Dynojet to be able to compare better with others.

No stock map baseline, and his Jordan tune only made 10hp more (on a cooler day) than his Active custom tune. Def not going to hold up in the summer.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 05:49 PM   #11
mikeycons
Private First Class
mikeycons's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2013 f30 335i Sapphire black D
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: new york

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5w20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Agree that gains on pump gas with custom tune will not really be worth it. Too much of a octane limit and you need timing to make power.

Are you sure BMWDIYGUY runs meth? I dont follow dyno numbers really, so could be wrong, but i dont recall him mentioning it in his mod list... someone will need to dig up the thread.
I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.
But he did have an E85 tune right ?
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 06:11 PM   #12
thejeremyman9
Colonel
thejeremyman9's Avatar
1139
Rep
2,402
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeycons View Post
But he did have an E85 tune right ?
No, he ran 93.

I will just reiterate what i always do that all these numbers that get thrown around are pointless for so many reasons, especially without a baseline. Different cars on different dynos on different days, etc etc. Not only that, but the shape of the curve for some custom tunes i have seen is awful - it might give you a peak # to brag about but area under the curve is what matters.

So let's circle back to the original question -

Yes, you will max out stock PWG turbo with a XDI-35 and a custom tune. The amount of power it makes in terms of xxx WHP is irrelevant because it is what it is - you wont be able to push any higher without a turbo upgrade. The more relevant question, which is equally as difficult to put a number to, is how much gain you will have relative to your current tune. That will depend heavily on your E mix, since the PWG turbo is already pushed pretty far on the OTS map, so most of the gains will be from timing and not more boost. I think you will have to answer that question in hindsight. I recommend getting some good 4th gear logs on a nice smooth road with your current setup and then go back and log under the same/closest conditions with the new setup and tune and throw them in VD for comparison.

Last edited by thejeremyman9; 08-04-2020 at 06:19 PM..
Appreciate 1
harkes797.00

      08-04-2020, 06:16 PM   #13
mikeycons
Private First Class
mikeycons's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2013 f30 335i Sapphire black D
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: new york

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeycons View Post
But he did have an E85 tune right ?
No, he ran 93.

I will just reiterate what i always do that all these numbers that get thrown around are pointless for so many reasons, especially without a baseline. Different cars on different dynos on different days, etc etc. Not only that, but the shape of the curve for some custom tunes i have seen is awful - it might give you a peak # to brag about but area under the curve is what matters.

So let's circle back to the original question -

Yes, you will max out stock PWG turbo with a XDI-35 and a custom tune. The amount of power it makes in terms of xxx WHP is irrelevant because it is what it is - you wont be able to push any higher without a turbo upgrade. The more relevant question, which is equally as difficult to put a number to, is how much gain you will have relative to your current tune. That will depend heavily on your E mix, since the PWG turbo is already pushed pretty far on the OTS map, so most of the gains will be from timing and not more boost. I think you will have to answer that question in hindsight. I recommend getting some good 4th gear logs on a nice smooth load with your current setup and then go back and log under the same/closest conditions with the new setup and tune and throw them in VD for comparison.
I see what you mean by stock turbo falling flat on its face. Thank you for the information I probably should just wait until I upgrade the turbo to install the new HPFP and custom tune and log from there.
Appreciate 1
harkes797.00

      08-04-2020, 06:37 PM   #14
ZM2
Colonel
1318
Rep
2,057
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (0)

To add context, Ive got a Halim tuned FBO M2 with Dorch Stage 1 HPFP, Dinan turbo, and am running half 93/half E85.

Were working to create a setup that is rock solid with no power loss or overheating the car on a 100F summer track day during a 45min open track session, and I have every plug & play cooling solution available (CSF, do88, Wagner Evo3), and Im only expecting 425-430whp on a Dynojet.

Sure, we could push more, but I have some 100F+ ambient logs with several back to back 3-4 & 3-4-5 pulls with hard braking in between, and weve got no timing pull and coolant/oil temps seem stable at the upper limit of what I want to see.

Im hitting the rollers next week with another M2 guy with a PS2 that is focused on max reliable power for the street so hell be able to push quite a bit further than me, but well still overlay the curves and post up in the M2 forum so everyone can take a look.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 09:21 PM   #15
harkes
Lieutenant Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
797
Rep
1,928
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

420whp....LOOOL That is what I am making with PS2 on 93+methanol.

Sales talk!
__________________
M135i PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, Torqbyte CM5-LT, xHP
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 09:25 PM   #16
mikeycons
Private First Class
mikeycons's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2013 f30 335i Sapphire black D
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: new york

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
420whp....LOOOL That is what I am making with PS2 on 93+methanol.

Sales talk!
Stoppppp no way
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 11:17 PM   #17
akgambino
Lieutenant
Canada
175
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335xi M-Sport (PWG)
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Saskatchewan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeycons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
420whp....LOOOL That is what I am making with PS2 on 93+methanol.

Sales talk!
Stoppppp no way
Lol Man U can't make 400whp with stock pwg turbo it's laughable that they said it was doable!

Why on earth would you waste thousands of dollars on a hpfp upgrade with stock turbo? It will literally do nothing of benefit for you and the turbo will still fall flat after 5000rpm and you will still struggle to make 10psi past 6000rpm.
Do yourself a favour and invest that money in a turbo upgrade, run the stg2h ots map and if you still aren't happy upgrade hpfp.
__________________
2013 F30 335i xDrive M-Sport 6MT (FBO/BM3 custom tune by HCP, 91 oct, 550i clutch, xDelete)
Appreciate 1
harkes797.00

      08-05-2020, 09:05 AM   #18
TSA8151
Private First Class
45
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i msport
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

I would keep the XDI-35 in its box until you can get a new turbo. If you don't want to get a new turbo I would sell the fuel pump. Stage 2 OTS maps already max out the PWG turbo.
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2020, 10:28 AM   #19
BMW DIY Guy
Lieutenant Colonel
993
Rep
1,756
Posts

Drives: 2014 435i
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Maple Valley WA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW 435i  [0.00]
Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.
__________________
Check out my BMW DIY Channel on YouTube! F32, F80, E39, E46, E53, and E83 projects from Active Autowerke, TuningTechFS, Kies Motorsports, AvinUSA, Karbonius Composites and more!
** YouTube BMW DIY Guy ** ** Facebook BMW DIY Guy **
'Furiosa' F32 Build Thread
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2020, 06:59 AM   #20
Phantom10R
Captain
United_States
211
Rep
604
Posts

Drives: 2015 335i, 2015 X3 x35i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chelsea, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.
where does your boost start to fall off at? and how far does it drop? im running into an issue with my ewg stock turbo where boost just goes bye bye at some point. do you have any logs to share?
__________________
2015 335i xDrive 11.85 on stock turbo.
2015 X3 x35i

IG: @N55David
Youtube: @ n55david
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2020, 08:51 AM   #21
Logicoeur
Major
Logicoeur's Avatar
479
Rep
1,238
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.
Same. But I have no power mods yet
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | 18X9 ET32 19lb TR-1 255/40/18 | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2020, 08:55 AM   #22
BMW DIY Guy
Lieutenant Colonel
993
Rep
1,756
Posts

Drives: 2014 435i
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Maple Valley WA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW 435i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom10R View Post
where does your boost start to fall off at? and how far does it drop? im running into an issue with my ewg stock turbo where boost just goes bye bye at some point. do you have any logs to share?
I am driving VERY little right now, so this really is all I can share. I pulled some very brief WOT pulls while out running errands () so are not like dyno quality. Just brief WOT as road and traffic conditions would allow.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f30...0b434cf74fb0f3


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f30...90c6691455c1e4
__________________
Check out my BMW DIY Channel on YouTube! F32, F80, E39, E46, E53, and E83 projects from Active Autowerke, TuningTechFS, Kies Motorsports, AvinUSA, Karbonius Composites and more!
** YouTube BMW DIY Guy ** ** Facebook BMW DIY Guy **
'Furiosa' F32 Build Thread
Appreciate 1
AmuroRay166.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST