[jon102034050]

Looking for some input from the community on this one. I've got a 2014 335xi with the MPPK in a 6 speed manual transmission. I've followed the other threads regarding issues with CEL's and the MPPK, but I think my issue seems to be different than those.

Basically, I'm able to produce a CEL (and code 102001) almost on demand. When traveling at highway speeds (around 75 mph) and getting off the highway, I commonly shift the car into neutral. I've done this with all of my previously owned m/t cars with no issues. With my 335, when the speed goes down from 75 mph to 70 mph (and the car is in neutral), a CEL will come on.

I've now replicated this issue 6 times, and am about to take the car into the shop for the 4th time. The dealer told me that BMW is 'aware of this issue', and that it is 'impacting more cars than just yours'. They said that a software fix is in the works, but that they cannot guarantee it will be out any time soon.

I've found an attorney and am investigating my local lemon laws. What does everybody think? Is this really a known issue? Can anybody else with a 6 speed replicate this CEL?

[Mike_L]

Lemon law? For that? Not a single state in this country or single court in this country will let you lemon a car for a stupid thing like that. The US Lemon law requires that they try to fix the same problem 3 times, it still exists, and is a safety hazard or greatly reduces the value of the car. I see none of those requirements being met.

Simple solution, just don't do it!!

[jon102034050]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Lemon law? For that? Not a single state in this country or single court in this country will let you lemon a car for a stupid thing like that. The US Lemon law requires that they try to fix the same problem 3 times, it still exists, and is a safety hazard or greatly reduces the value of the car. I see none of those requirements being met.

Simple solution, just don't do it!!

Actually, my state requires 4 times in the shop for the same issue, and I'm taking it in tomorrow for the fourth time, along with a document of all the required information for me to claim it as a lemon. My issue with this whole thing is that nobody seems motivated to fix this at all, although they have admitted it's a known issue.

The way I understand the lemon law in my state is that there is a no cost arbitration option. I hope that by submitting this issue and claiming it as a lemon, this will make bmw get a little more serious about actually fixing it.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by jon102034050

Actually, my state requires 4 times in the shop for the same issue, and I'm taking it in tomorrow for the fourth time, along with a document of all the required information for me to claim it as a lemon. My issue with this whole thing is that nobody seems motivated to fix this at all, although they have admitted it's a known issue.

The way I understand the lemon law in my state is that there is a no cost arbitration option. I hope that by submitting this issue and claiming it as a lemon, this will make bmw get a little more serious about actually fixing it.

Arbitration is available through the BBB AutoLine in some states. It rarely gets you anywhere though, unless you live in CA. Otherwise they'll promise to fix it, maybe give you a grand and extended warranty, and you'll have to agree not to sue. I went through it with GM back in 2000-01.

CA seems to be much harder on them, because they work around Lemoning cars there. I've never seen a 3 series buyback, but I've seen a bunch of 5's and 7's. They'll buy it back, fix the problem, and then wholesale the car. It will never get the Lemon title because they claim they repurchased it "to ensure complete customer satisfaction", not because there was a problem with it. They get most of their money back when they resell it that way. Its always California cars though for whatever reason.

[jon102034050]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Arbitration is available through the BBB AutoLine in some states. It rarely gets you anywhere though, unless you live in CA. Otherwise they'll promise to fix it, maybe give you a grand and extended warranty, and you'll have to agree not to sue. I went through it with GM back in 2000-01.

CA seems to be much harsher on them. I've never seen a 3 series buyback, but I've seen a bunch of 5's and 7's. They'll buy it back, fix the problem, and then wholesale the car. It will never get the Lemon title because they claim they repurchased it "to ensure complete customer satisfaction", not because there was a problem with it. They get most of their money back when they resell it that way.

Well, that option seems okay to me. I guess I don't really care if the vehicle is titled a lemon if I get them to buy it back, right?

I have given a honest effort at downshifting rather than shifting into neutral, but it's very hard to break a very old habit.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by jon102034050

Basically, I'm able to produce a CEL (and code 100201) almost on demand. When traveling at highway speeds (around 75 mph) and getting off the highway, I commonly shift the car into neutral.

I've been driving MT cars for over 30 years and I never once had to do that. It begs the question why do you?

[FC4]

Originally Posted by JJS

I've been driving MT cars for over 30 years and I never once had to do that. It begs the question why do you?

Who cares. He's not looking for input on whether people coast or downshift to a stop.

OP, no it's not normal. Regardless of anyone questioning the driving habit, the car should not trigger a CEL after being shifted into neutral. Mine never has.

[jon102034050]

Originally Posted by FC4

Who cares. He's not looking for input on whether people coast or downshift to a stop.

OP, no it's not normal. Regardless of anyone questioning the driving habit, the car should not trigger a CEL after being shifted into neutral. Mine never has.

Right, it's not a question of having to do it - I understand my options. I'm trying to figure out if there is anybody else that can replicate this.

[Cyberdemon]

Is there any description of what code 100201 means?

Is there any indication of something going wrong while it is happening? (Rough idling, backfire, vibration?)

Either way it stinks, but if it's just the light flashing without anything going wrong you may just have to deal with it if it is in fact a software issue. The car is under warranty for a while so unless something is impacting the drivability the lemon law shouldn't come into effect.

[smithf80]

I don't think 100201 is a real code number.

You need to read the car with INPA to get the real code. It should be 4 digits.

[jon102034050]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Is there any description of what code 100201 means?

Is there any indication of something going wrong while it is happening? (Rough idling, backfire, vibration?)

Either way it stinks, but if it's just the light flashing without anything going wrong you may just have to deal with it if it is in fact a software issue. The car is under warranty for a while so unless something is impacting the drivability the lemon law shouldn't come into effect.

It's actually fault 102001 I believe (they typo'ed it on one of my service records). From my limited understanding, it seems to state that the air mass is too high and the mixture is too rich. Basically, there is an issue with the MAF. The MAF has been replaced once and this didn't do a thing, the issue is still reproducible. Other than the CEL, I don't notice much else. There may be a slight loss of power, but it's not terribly noticeable.

[jon102034050]

Originally Posted by smithe90

I don't think 100201 is a real code number.

You need to read the car with INPA to get the real code. It should be 4 digits.

I think you're right, its not a code but rather a fault. I'm not well versed in this, but does that make sense? From the service records, nobody has actually recorded a code, but rather that fault each time.

[smithf80]

Originally Posted by jon102034050

I think you're right, its not a code but rather a fault. I'm not well versed in this, but does that make sense? From the service records, nobody has actually recorded a code, but rather that fault each time.

as someone who does BMW coding and has extensive knowledge of BMW modules and how their codes work I can tell you that doesn't make sense to me.

If you get a check engine then your DME module will store a fault code, which is a four digit code usually consisting of 2 letters and 2 numbers.

[jon102034050]

Can I read the historic faults with an enet cable?

[smithf80]

Originally Posted by jon102034050

Can I read the historic faults with an enet cable?

Yes. You'll need INPA for F-Series. Shawnsheridan has it.

[Labeef]

I believe you have enough to lemon law the car. Regardless of BMW being aware of the issue or not, it's not normal and the car needs to be repaired.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Labeef

I believe you have enough to lemon law the car. Regardless of BMW being aware of the issue or not, it's not normal and the car needs to be repaired.

Don't most states require the issue to be detrimental to the safety and drivability of the vehicle? Wouldn't it be up to the OP to prove this is the case?

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Don't most states require the issue to be detrimental to the safety and drivability of the vehicle? Wouldn't it be up to the OP to prove this is the case?

Not in CA. He would qualify here. I would just leave the car at the dealer for 31 days and have them buy it back.
http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Labeef

Not in CA. He would qualify here. I would just leave the car at the dealer for 31 days and have them buy it back.
http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon

Intersting. Thanks for the link. Much different than PA.

[jon102034050]

Just got back from the dealer for the 4th visit, they confirmed the code thrown was the same and cleared it. They've since given me a statement saying that 'customer can drive vehicle while issue is investigated'.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Labeef

I believe you have enough to lemon law the car. Regardless of BMW being aware of the issue or not, it's not normal and the car needs to be repaired.

Totally agree. if you're able to produce it on demand, and they can't fix it, sounds like you've got a lemon on your hand!!!


I would demand it ether be rectified or replaced, no questions. It is not normal and will absolutely affect the value of your car long term. Question is not whether or not they can fix it but how they will handle the situation.


Whether it affects your daily driving is beside the question. Something is not right. It's a matter of principal. Every manufacturer has any number of cars produced each year which will be defective. They should admit that much and act accordingly.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Don't most states require the issue to be detrimental to the safety and drivability of the vehicle? Wouldn't it be up to the OP to prove this is the case?

A reproducible check engine light is pretty serious. It's not like his a/c is blowing warm air or something. I would never buy a car with a CEL.