[RPM90]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I guess we can take a poll of how many people who purchase BMWs purchase them with the intention of tracking them.....in addition to using them as their mode of transportation. Not necessarily their only mode. Because so many people in these forums ARE interested in modding their cars with performance parts and tuning chips, etc.

These cars are expensive because of their quality and already good performers without mods. So, I find it interesting that at $50,000, do people really mod their cars for competition purposes. It seems odd to do all the mods just go to 80 down I-95.

It's surprising but there are a lot of drivers who mod these cars for even more power. On enthusiasts sites like this you'll find a much greater percentage who mod vs the regular population.

Just take a look at how many 328i owners on this site are excited about mods to get more power from the N20. They are happy that they can mod the N20 to equal or near equal power level as the N55.
That's great. Yet, as with any mod that messes with stock engine tuning, the warranty will be void if the dealer finds it.

Another benefit to getting the 335i over the 328i is that the N55 already produces that power, stock, that some 328i drivers will get after the mods.
If you knew you wanted more power to begin with, the N55 is the better choice, imo, mostly because it retains it's warranty.
The lower cost of the 328i sounds promising to those who want to mod it, and the cost to get 335i power will likely cost less than the cost difference between the two models. But, what cost is there to potentially losing your warranty? For me, I prefer to have the warranty with the higher stock power.

For me I won't mod the engine. I may do a couple track days, but that's it.
The appeal of the 335i isn't just the added power. It's also the inherent smoothness of the N55's inline 6. Also, the sound of the engine when I crack the throttle WFO. I just enjoy it, and it's worth paying extra for.
There is a visceral quality that some people simply enjoy with the N54/N55.
Where I live I get ample opportunity to use my 135i's N54 engine at full zing, and I can continue to do that with my 335i as well.

No, I don't "need" all that power for daily driving. But then I didn't get a BMW just for relaxed daily driving. If that is all I wanted, something to get me to work and back everyday, there are plenty of other cars at lower cost that would do that. That's not a slam on anyone. Some of us just have different wants.

The 335i gives me 2 cars in one. I have a very nice, comfortable daily driver, that will get me decent MPG with the 8spd AT, and with the same car I can pretend to have a "sports car" that I can bomb around on the weekends and evenings.

I was sold on the 328i when I first drove it. I was really amazed at how well the engine worked along with the whole F30 chassis. There is more than enough power from the N20 to drive daily and have fun at other times.
Then I tested the 335i, and it was more like my 135i. It adds something that I like and enjoy. I knew I would give up the lighter handling of the 328i, but I gain something else I like with the 335i.
It's not true that the 335i is not a great handling sport sedan. It simply is.
The 328i just adds more to the great handling of a 3 series.

It's funny to me when those who negate the 335i's greater power, by saying you can't use all that power on a daily basis, yet praise the 328i for it's better handling. Well, the same standard can be thrown back at that.
How often will you get the chance to exploit the 328i's better handling on a daily driving basis?
You make choices, and sometimes you may give up something to get something else.

Yes, yes I know, another long "book" from me.
Part of my work requires writing, so I can get long winded.
Sorry Elk.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Elk

I suspect it comes down to a desire to claim "My car is faster" and other bench racing needs.

It probably does for some, but not for all.
It's too easy to paint with that broad of a brush.

I'm 47, and I'm way past pumping up my chest to claim superiority with my car. I simply enjoy my car for me, and hold no illusions that I'm THE man on the street.

I do like to discuss automotive performance though, as most everyone else here does. Otherwise, why are they here, and continue to read these types of threads?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I do like to discuss automotive performance though,

Sure, but the question dealt with the obsession with 0-60 times, particularly with 328 v. 335. Often those obsessed with the numbers are not interested in performance per se, but rather the number itself.

Bench racers are an odd breed.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Elk

Sure, but the question dealt with the obsession with 0-60 times, particularly with 328 v. 335. Often those obsessed with the numbers are not interested in performance per se, but rather the number itself.

Bench racers are an odd breed.

It's true, there is an obsession with 0-60. I've noted it myself in other threads and forums. I guess it's partially due to the fact that all car mags, and online test use that figure. And, auto makers are quite aware of it as well.
Many even tune the trans to help achieve a better number.

It's obsessive when it's the only measure being considered.
It's comes from all sides. I keep reading the 335i naysayers who keep saying the the 0-60 time is so minimal. And, they ignore all the other accel tests.
If you're going to discuss that measure or acceleration, then consider the wider range of accel test data like 0-100, 1/4 mile, trap speed, passing power, etc...

I don't know that it's so much odd as it's uninformed.
But then, this is what happens when discussing cars and their performance while sitting behind a screen and keyboard.
I can type 60 words per minute, beat that!

[MaestroAl]

40-100 in 4th gear (MT) is the real measure of how quick a car is int he real world Over on the MPS (that's Mazdaspeed for our American cousins) owners forum, nobody cares about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. It's all about in-gear acceleratio and torque.

For what it's worth, I test drove a 335i to test the adaptive suspension option (which I subsequently ordered!) but kept thinking I'd got the handbrake on because the car felt so slow for a 300bhp car. Again, that's all about the torque curve which is pretty flat in the 335i and revs like a wild thing up to the redline. My MPS has much more torque lower down in the rev range but gives up and goes for a cup of tea after 5500 rpm. As a consequence, normal in-gear performance felt week in the 335i whereas the car is actually ultimately quicker than my MPS ... it's just that you have to wind the nuts off it to get the most out of it. I suspect that the comparison between the 328 and the 335 would be very similar in back to back tests in real world driving.

[BMWgasm]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Just take a look at how many 328i owners on this site are excited about mods to get more power from the N20. They are happy that they can mod the N20 to equal or near equal power level as the N55.
That's great. Yet, as with any mod that messes with stock engine tuning, the warranty will be void if the dealer finds it.

For most yes, but companies such as Dinan are recognized by BMW, and their tunes won't void the warranty. I do agree 100% with the rest of your post. I currently own a 2011 E90 335 M Sport, but just ordered the F30 328 M Sport. I know I am going to miss the N55 a ton. My reasons for the switch have more to do with being practical than anything else as I have my first child on the way and need to consider the lower car payment, lower insurance, and lower fuel costs. But some day I will go back to the 335. Or the M3. Or the M5. Or the M6.

[BMWgasm]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

For what it's worth, I test drove a 335i to test the adaptive suspension option (which I subsequently ordered!) but kept thinking I'd got the handbrake on because the car felt so slow for a 300bhp car. Again, that's all about the torque curve which is pretty flat in the 335i and revs like a wild thing up to the redline. My MPS has much more torque lower down in the rev range but gives up and goes for a cup of tea after 5500 rpm. As a consequence, normal in-gear performance felt week in the 335i whereas the car is actually ultimately quicker than my MPS ... it's just that you have to wind the nuts off it to get the most out of it. I suspect that the comparison between the 328 and the 335 would be very similar in back to back tests in real world driving.

How does the 6 have more torque in the lower RPMs? 335 puts out max torque (300 lb/feet or 406Nm) starting at around 1200 RPM. The 6 stats show max torque (280 lb/ft or 380Nm) at around 3000 RPM. Am I looking at the wrong specs? I haven't found the need to wind the nuts off my 335 to get the most out of it.

[Digtlartst]

Waiting for an F31 335xiT 6MT.

But I'm not holding my breath!

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by cpw2626

How does the 6 have more torque in the lower RPMs? 335 puts out max torque (300 lb/feet or 406Nm) starting at around 1200 RPM. The 6 stats show max torque (280 lb/ft or 380Nm) at around 3000 RPM. Am I looking at the wrong specs? I haven't found the need to wind the nuts off my 335 to get the most out of it.

Mine's modified Also, the characteristics are that the MPS has an enormous surge of torque and "feels" liek aproper turbo car. You know how they build ... it's like a mountain of torque coming in to around 2500rpm and then there's this big hump up to 4500 rpm-ish before it tapers off after around 5500rpm. I hit around 360ftlbs at 3000rpm. BMW tuned the 335i so that it doesn't feel ilke a forced induction car but just feels like a straight six - the torque curve isn't a curve, it's a straight line. Yes, it's more refined and yes, it's more "BMW" but ... in my opinion ... it's got less character and needs to be worked harder to feel as quick.

It's just a perception thing based on how it's been tuned. I don't think anyone disputes that the 335i is a great car, it's quick and it's refined. It just doesn't feel as quick as it is unless you wind the nuts off it

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

Mine's modified Also, the characteristics are that the MPS has an enormous surge of torque and "feels" liek aproper turbo car. You know how they build ... it's like a mountain of torque coming in to around 2500rpm and then there's this big hump up to 4500 rpm-ish before it tapers off after around 5500rpm. I hit around 360ftlbs at 3000rpm. BMW tuned the 335i so that it doesn't feel ilke a forced induction car but just feels like a straight six - the torque curve isn't a curve, it's a straight line. Yes, it's more refined and yes, it's more "BMW" but ... in my opinion ... it's got less character and needs to be worked harder to feel as quick.

It's just a perception thing based on how it's been tuned. I don't think anyone disputes that the 335i is a great car, it's quick and it's refined. It just doesn't feel as quick as it is unless you wind the nuts off it

That's one aspect of older turbo engines that I really love, the way the torque all of a sudden slams you back in your seat.
It feels massive because there's little torque at lower rpm until the revs build and the turbo spools and it's off to the races.
I had a new 1990 Plymouth/Mits Laser/Eclipse FWD 5spd.
I modded it with a 16G turbo and upped boost. Off the line you had to have a firm grip on the wheel as it wasn't the AWD model.
But, at speed around 60, drop the gears and slam the loud pedal that thing would leap like a scalded cat.
The other great aspect was that it would pull all the way to red line, and there was still a lot of torque there, but, red line.

Modern turbo's are different. With the addition of direct injection, these engines can now run higher compression ratio's unheard of in the old turbo days. With the higher compression ratio's smaller turbo's make sense, as the engine can still naturally develop good low rpm torque, and the smaller turbo's can spool so much quicker to add to that low rpm torque.
Add variable valve timing and how you have a torque "curve" that is flatter, but the table top is very high, and gives you that huge torque for a broad rev range.

The thing I wish manufacturers of "sport/sporty" turbo's would do is retune these engines so that they don't build all their torque at such low rpm.
Rather, move the torque curve higher in the rev band, using a bit larger twin scroll turbo's that flow better at higher rpm.
Instead of 300lb ft by 1200rpm, more like 225lb ft at 1200rpm that steadily climb, and perhaps peak around 2500-3000 but running to near red line.
So the curve looks more like a softly rounded balloon.
It would give it more character and allow the driver to enjoy the cacophony or whirly bits at very high rpm.

As it is now, most turbo engines have a diesel like torque output, but it dies too early. Sure, it saves on friction as we get a lot of power without having to rev it up, but again, for a sport/sporty automobile, that's part of the allure and pleasure.

I think I got lucky with my 335i Msport. My engine feels very strong.
It's the strongest feeling N55 of all the 335i's I've tested, which is about 5-6 of them. It even feels stronger than the N54 in my 135i.
I'm quite happy with it.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RPM90

That's true.
And there are those who have higher powered cars and have the skills to drive them. Those are the drivers out front of the also good drivers with less power.
Depends on the track too.
Some tracks don't have a configuration to allow a higher powered car to use it's power advantage.

I agree with this point. But most ppl enthusiast or not are getting more power and more handling done to their cars when they can't even take stock to the limits (including myself). There are professionals and those that take turns slow and then mash on the gas on straights and are fast because they are in say an m3 . What are the chances that owners can achieve lap times equal to the professionals hired to do all the testing. I'm not saying one should not do it because I would too.

[rocko911]

Well the video for the 335i shows 0-60 in around 5.3 secs. Does any of you (335i owners) got anything better than that? BMW USA website claims 5.1 secs and I dont know how and doubt it that Motor Trend got 4.7 secs!

[redfireball.f30n55]

Originally Posted by Beyu

Since we're on the topic of exhaust notes I think this video by BimmerPost is the best comparison out there.

The 335i definitely sounds much better, especially during the initial flybys.

+10

[DarkTrigger]

If you're looking at 0-60 times, you really want to be in an AWD car to really dig in. I get little traction on my 335i from the start, really gotta modulate the gas pedal depending on the surface. I like looking cars up on zeroto60times.com although, who really knows where they get their times.

2012 BMW 335i Sedan 0-60 mph 4.6 Quarter Mile 13.1

2012 BMW 328i Sedan Sport (Auto) 0-60 mph 5.5 Quarter Mile 14.0

2013 BMW ActiveHybrid 3 0-60 mph 5.0 Quarter Mile 13.6

[normsbimmer]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

there's something called the driver mod. some guys in low hp cars will dust ppl with high hp cars on the track.

and there will always be a car out there faster than you.

+ 10

[hkdude]

the 335 is much more powerful but I chose the 328 purely because in Hong Kong the price difference between them on the list price is USD28,571 or USD468 per extra hp and even adding the M performance bits it is still a bargain, imo BMW are pushing for sales of 328i so they can keep production costs down and make more profit. +its the ideal small family car.

but for real sound nothing beats a V8/V10.

[Windsor027]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

40-100 in 4th gear (MT) is the real measure of how quick a car is int he real world Over on the MPS (that's Mazdaspeed for our American cousins) owners forum, nobody cares about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. It's all about in-gear acceleratio and torque.

For what it's worth, I test drove a 335i to test the adaptive suspension option (which I subsequently ordered!) but kept thinking I'd got the handbrake on because the car felt so slow for a 300bhp car. Again, that's all about the torque curve which is pretty flat in the 335i and revs like a wild thing up to the redline. My MPS has much more torque lower down in the rev range but gives up and goes for a cup of tea after 5500 rpm. As a consequence, normal in-gear performance felt week in the 335i whereas the car is actually ultimately quicker than my MPS ... it's just that you have to wind the nuts off it to get the most out of it. I suspect that the comparison between the 328 and the 335 would be very similar in back to back tests in real world driving.

you sure the thing was in sport mode and not in eco mode? I can't really believe many people would want a faster 4-door sedan for the street. I love how my 335i takes off, especially in the 30 to 75 mph. Now I have a manual so I can't talk about the automatic but from what people have said about them they are awesome also.

[BMW DRUG]

355 is a much faster, check here

http://bmwdrug.ru/bmw-320xi-328-ecu-...ls-protiv-360/

[lens]

I managed to grab a time of 4.6-4.7 secs with the MPPK/dinan intake/borla exhaust on my winter tires and rims (400M, Sottozero 3s, all square) with launch control for shits and giggles. I also had a my buddy who was next to me, that used his phone to time it. (2013 335i xdrive) so I have no doubt I can probably hit 4.3-4.4 without a passenger and with summer tires.

Boy, does the torque throw you into your seat.

[BMW DRUG]

[2015bmw328in26]

I'm going to jump in here and piss someone off I'm sure. Have a 2015 328 xdrive with the 8sp sports trans and bms jb+ And launch control. With half a tank of 93, just the driver and 65 degrees outside I consistently run 0 to 60 in 4.8 flat and 13.1 at 103 in the 1/4. Keep in mind the JB plus was 200 bucks. Another thing to know it which I don't think people are considering but is important with the f30 N20 is mileage increasing hp up until about 25k. I'm putting 260 to the wheels and similar torque.

[2015bmw328in26]

Originally Posted by DarkTrigger

If you're looking at 0-60 times, you really want to be in an AWD car to really dig in. I get little traction on my 335i from the start, really gotta modulate the gas pedal depending on the surface. I like looking cars up on zeroto60times.com although, who really knows where they get their times.

2012 BMW 335i Sedan 0-60 mph 4.6 Quarter Mile 13.1

2012 BMW 328i Sedan Sport (Auto) 0-60 mph 5.5 Quarter Mile 14.0

2013 BMW ActiveHybrid 3 0-60 mph 5.0 Quarter Mile 13.6

I'm going to jump in here and piss someone off I'm sure. Have a 2015 328 xdrive with the 8sp sports trans and bms jb+ And launch control. With half a tank of 93, just the driver and 65 degrees outside I consistently run 0 to 60 in 4.8 flat and 13.1 at 103 in the 1/4. Keep in mind the JB plus was 200 bucks. Another thing to know it which I don't think people are considering but is important with the f30 N20 is mileage increasing hp up until about 25k. I'm putting 260 to the wheels and similar torque.