[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

My best friend and god children live in Portugal, amongst several other friends, and this backs up what I've heard from them too. Compliance of mask wearing and respect for each other throughout this pandemic has been very high. That's the Portuguese for you though. Good and considerate people in the main! Usually go at least once a year and boy do I miss it. Have a great time!

Brits are libertarian fuckwits, unlike the Portuguese.

Island and Empire mentality still remains, I guess.

[R0B]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Well it wont.... they will then have holiday to take later and so will get leave twice and you will still have to pay it!

(holiday pay is at full pay even when on furlough, and not reclaimable....)

Not necessarily - flexi furlough opened that up a bit for me as well as agreements with staff. Holiday year entitlement timescales play a part in that. Obvs all this is much easier in an SME of course.

[Lando72]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

I thought that, but according to this, the 80% is over 12s

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations.

I think we were overtaken by a few countries over the summer, but seem to be doing better again now, in terms of vaccination numbers anyway

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...pe-by-country/

You’re right, it is over 12’s, but for comparison purposes it really doesn’t matter.

Whole population figures that are published for comparison with other nations show us at 68.6%, Austria at 65% and Portugal miles ahead at 86.6%.

So we’re pretty middling and much closer to Austria than Portugal.

As in my first post, I think our saving grace is that the older age group more at risk are all having boosters now. That’s where we’re ahead.

But, we still have too many fuckwits that won’t take it and keep our overall infection figures down.

[MY340i]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225803/Europe-descends-chaos-second-night-protests-continue-Austria-Holland-Denmark.html

Ouch - would assume this kind of behaviour would be in most places that do lockdown

[Lando72]

Originally Posted by MY340i

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225803/Europe-descends-chaos-second-night-protests-continue-Austria-Holland-Denmark.html

Ouch - would assume this kind of behaviour would be in most places that do lockdown

They could just go and form a queue at the vaccine centre instead?!

[MY340i]

well redlist has come back for SA. interesting to see how this pans out.

[Lando72]

Originally Posted by MY340i

well redlist has come back for SA. interesting to see how this pans out.

If the variant is as bad as first thought, red list rules should apply from right now. Not Sunday.

Two teams of rugby players racing back to beat quarantine was this mornings headline. Kind of defeats the object surely.

Although, it’s probably just delaying the inevitable. Don’t think any strains have been controlled or eliminated so far, unless the virus did itself by replacing with a more transmissible version.

[MY340i]

Originally Posted by Lando72

If the variant is as bad as first thought, red list rules should apply from right now. Not Sunday.

Two teams of rugby players racing back to beat quarantine was this mornings headline. Kind of defeats the object surely.

Although, it’s probably just delaying the inevitable. Don’t think any strains have been controlled or eliminated so far, unless the virus did itself by replacing with a more transmissible version.

agreed - and these new strains will just continue to pop up.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by Lando72

If the variant is as bad as first thought, red list rules should apply from right now. Not Sunday.

Two teams of rugby players racing back to beat quarantine was this mornings headline. Kind of defeats the object surely.

Although, it's probably just delaying the inevitable. Don't think any strains have been controlled or eliminated so far, unless the virus did itself by replacing with a more transmissible version.

You are correct that the virus will continue mutating. These RNA viruses are very good at doing that. The mutations will certainly come in many flavors (some worse, some better, some more transmissible, etc.) This new B.1.1.529 certainly has the world a bit on edge now. Timing wise it certainly stinks that this is right before the holidays when lots of people will travel. That is an ideal scenario for viral spread. That has upped the needle on the freaking out scale. Until data tells us otherwise, this is just another strain that is on the "variant of concern" list that warrants surveillance. It is very unlikely that a strain will quickly mutate in a crazy manner that will completely negate the vaccine induced or infection induced immune response or suddenly turn into a crazy deadly virus that has a much higher case fatality rate. With all that stated small changes in infectivity and where and how it spreads among people and within people can show larger changes on a population basis.

Cheers

[Blacktemplar]

Politicians & the media vs. The Science Community…

.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

Politicians & the media vs. The Science Community…

.

Well at least there is a name to the new beast. That should help. Omicron is it's name.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by CajunBMW

Well at least there is a name to the new beast. That should help. Omicron is it's name.

Better than Thanos

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Better than Thanos

Agreed (hahaha)….that would probably be a bad omen….

So far just a name and variant of concern that will be watched for the next few weeks/months.

Scientifically and medically they will watch the virus for enhanced spread and or changes in the ages of those infected or getting sick or in how sick people get when infected with this variant vs delta for example.

[RobUK]

It's encouraging that drug companies are already on Omicron's case. Moderna are already working on 3 vaccines targeting the variant and Pfizer BionTech say they'll know within 2 weeks if their current vaccine is effective and if not, could produce a new one in 100 days.

What is concerning is when the South African Health Minister says the travel ban is a "kneee jerk reaction". If anything, politicians should have realised from previous efforts that you need to go early, go hard and be transparent where Covid is concerned.

[Lando72]

Originally Posted by RobUK

It's encouraging that drug companies are already on Omicron's case. Moderna are already working on 3 vaccines targeting the variant and Pfizer BionTech say they'll know within 2 weeks if their current vaccine is effective and if not, could produce a new one in 100 days.

What is concerning is when the South African Health Minister says the travel ban is a "kneee jerk reaction". If anything, politicians should have realised from previous efforts that you need to go early, go hard and be transparent where Covid is concerned.

I’m not sure how much it matters ultimately. By the time they’re identified they’re usually spread further than thought anyway. Would be very surprised if it isn’t already here.

And we said similar when the Kent variant (seems ages ago) was the most dangerous new strain. France stopped our truck drivers etc and we protested.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Lando72

I’m not sure how much it matters ultimately. By the time they’re identified they’re usually spread further than thought anyway. Would be very surprised if it isn’t already here.

And we said similar when the Kent variant (seems ages ago) was the most dangerous new strain. France stopped our truck drivers etc and we protested.

You're probably right and it is here already, albeit in small numbers. It matters ultimately because while travel bans can't stop the spread of Omicron, they can help to slow it down and that buys time for science to come up with solutions. Dare say New Zealand wouldn't have such a good track record if it had said "it's probably here already so let's keep the borders open".

If Omicron turns out to be more vaccine resistant/deadly (and that's still an IF), a travel ban might push the inevitable UK Omicron peak back which may help save some lives in the long run.

As for protesting about France's reaction to the Kent variant, well Brits will always find something to moan about

[Lando72]

Originally Posted by RobUK

You're probably right and it is here already, albeit in small numbers. It matters ultimately because while travel bans can't stop the spread of Omicron, they can help to slow it down and that buys time for science to come up with solutions. Dare say New Zealand wouldn't have such a good track record if it had said "it's probably here already so let's keep the borders open".

If Omicron turns out to be more vaccine resistant/deadly (and that's still an IF), a travel ban might push the inevitable UK Omicron peak back which may help save some lives in the long run.

As for protesting about France's reaction to the Kent variant, well Brits will always find something to moan about

I agree in part. But if you’re letting everyone rush back now in high numbers, whole rugby teams for example, who are prime risks, it seems a little like a half measure.

Flights and airports chock full of people as they travel back from Africa over a few short days. What could go wrong.

[MY340i]

Just like clockwork Omicron will be here for Christmas

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MY340i

Just like clockwork Omicron will be here for Christmas

By which time we will know more about it and specifically whether the existing vaccines work - which seems to be the case so far.

Of course, if its more contagious and therefore can infect more people, even if most are not severe, the chances of more unvaccinated catching it are higher and so the NHS could come under pressure....

[MY340i]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

By which time we will know more about it and specifically whether the existing vaccines work - which seems to be the case so far.

Of course, if its more contagious and therefore can infect more people, even if most are not severe, the chances of more unvaccinated catching it are higher and so the NHS could come under pressure....

if existing vaccines work - then great. perhaps just need a faster roll out of a booster and or a 3rd jab.

Otherwise will need to create a new one which does take months.

really do feel sorry for NHS staff who have to deal with the "woke" unvaccinated population who seem to be putting far too much stress on the system.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Lando72

I agree in part. But if you’re letting everyone rush back now in high numbers, whole rugby teams for example, who are prime risks, it seems a little like a half measure.

Flights and airports chock full of people as they travel back from Africa over a few short days. What could go wrong.

I know, always seems they make exceptions. Still, didn't have to wait long as we have 2 cases of the new variant in the UK now (Chelmsford and Nottingham). https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59445388

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by MY340i

if existing vaccines work - then great. perhaps just need a faster roll out of a booster and or a 3rd jab.

Otherwise will need to create a new one which does take months.

really do feel sorry for NHS staff who have to deal with the "woke" unvaccinated population who seem to be putting far too much stress on the system.

Certainly it is not clear how effective the vaccines will be, but it would be very rare for the new virus to be all or nothing in the sense of evading the immune response generated by the vaccine or a natural infection. Although it is plausible that it could be all or nothing that would take a lot of changes at the same time and that would be a very rare circumstance. In general the viruses change incrementally. Also since perhaps (and just a guess) that this mutation came out of an area with lower vaccine rates there may not have been the selective pressure to become vaccine resistant per se.

Luckily with the mRNA vaccines they can be changed quickly and new prototypes made quickly, but it still takes time to put 100's of millions of doses in vials and to ship them around the world.

Omicron certainly arrives at a bad time, especially if it is more infectious or worse.