[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Congrats! Took you a while to cover those last 5000 km from last year (see your post #20 in this thread from 02/2020 )...I'm guessing you didn't drive much in the pandemic.

Well 6500, but who's counting? Yep, working from home this past year and getting fatter. Mostly runs around the neighborhood to keep the fluids circulating. All the money I saved on gas turned into some new rifles in my safe. LoL

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by auburnf30x

Definitely not. I spent $5K+ on my 2012 Nissan Maxima in the last YEAR before cutting my losses. Impeccably maintained, but suddenly struck with a slew of failures ranging from the belt drive, to the alternator, and even the timing chain.

Want to throw in the year before that, with new tires and a wheel bearing...that's another $2.5K...

Plus at least another $3K or so in other random maintenance like oil changes, spark plugs, ignition coils, brake pads, rotors (front only), radiator & power steering flush, transmission fluid change, filters, etc. Comes out to over $5K per year spent keeping it going in the last two years. Prior to that, it was absolutely rock solid. Guess it hit the designed lifespan at some point.

Finally gave up on it at 115K miles. And now I'm here.

Thanks for posting, gives a lot of us new F30 owners peace of mind for the long haul.

Yeah, that's quite a bit. With my latest numbers, I am at 119k miles and have spent a total of $6100 so far...comes to an avg of $1220/yr post-warranty, just a hair higher than the $1184/yr I tallied in 2019 at 100k miles.

My car has now developed a play in the turbo wastegate actuator, which requires an entire turbo assembly replacement for $3500 (not going to do it unless and until the power delivery gets affected; right now I just get an occasional drivetrain malfunction warning, but no power delivery issues). It is also due for pads+rotors and tires in the next 10k miles ($1500 total). So with all these items, the average expense will climb momentarily, but I think it will settle down as these services won't come up again for several years. Other than that, the car is still rock solid.

[adhrp]

Of relevance to this thread, here's my recent Blackstone oil analysis report at 118k miles: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1809148

Engine condition is noted as excellent in the report.

[The Kurgan]

You are lucky. Since Dec 2017, I averaged approx. $3300 USD per year. Suspension, brakes and a few small repairs (thermostat, oil filter housing gasket, fuel vapour solenoid and new exterior mirror assembly) being the main culprits. Tires and frequent alignments aren't cheap either. I should be good for a while though. No wastegate rattle here (yet).

[auburnf30x]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Yeah, that's quite a bit. With my latest numbers, I am at 119k miles and have spent a total of $6100 so far...comes to an avg of $1220/yr post-warranty, just a hair higher than the $1184/yr I tallied in 2019 at 100k miles.

My car has now developed a play in the turbo wastegate actuator, which requires an entire turbo assembly replacement for $3500 (not going to do it unless and until the power delivery gets affected; right now I just get an occasional drivetrain malfunction warning, but no power delivery issues). It is also due for pads+rotors and tires in the next 10k miles ($1500 total). So with all these items, the average expense will climb momentarily, but I think it will settle down as these services won't come up again for several years. Other than that, the car is still rock solid.

I can live with those numbers. Doing as much of your own maintenance as possible (sounds like you do) really helps keep those numbers low.

Good looking oil report too, it’s not that far off from the one I just got back from Blackstone at 34k. Although your TBN is way better than mine on a 5k interval. I switched to Pennzoil for this change.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by auburnf30x

I can live with those numbers. Doing as much of your own maintenance as possible (sounds like you do) really helps keep those numbers low.

Good looking oil report too, it’s not that far off from the one I just got back from Blackstone at 34k. Although your TBN is way better than mine on a 5k interval. I switched to Pennzoil for this change.

I don't do much of my own maintenance actually...just a few minor things here and there. I go to trusted indies and also use BMW's Value Service at dealerships, which has very competitive pricing. My expense would probably have been half if I had the ability to service the car myself.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally Posted by adhrp

I don't do much of my own maintenance actually...just a few minor things here and there. I go to trusted indies and also use BMW's Value Service at dealerships, which has very competitive pricing. My expense would probably have been half if I had the ability to service the car myself.

There you go. You would have saved a ton If you did your own maintenance. I know I’ve save a few grand. In 3 years I’ve spent 1500 in maintenance and 2000 in mods.

[F30lolz]

Glad to see N20’s lasting past 100k miles. Currently sitting at 208k on the engine/198k chassis. Engine replaced at 79k miles due to getting caught in a flash flood and replaced with another n20 with 10k miles more by insurance. I do light maintenance on my own.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Randy Johnson

There you go. You would have saved a ton If you did your own maintenance. I know I’ve save a few grand. In 3 years I’ve spent 1500 in maintenance and 2000 in mods.

Fully agreed, but I just don't have the aptitude for it. I am wary of dabbling in anything I don't have the aptitude for, or the time to learn it properly, especially when it is something as expensive as a BMW (or any vehicle for that matter). I am pretty busy with my full-time job (for which I have the aptitude ), and thankfully it allows me to afford having someone else maintain my car. I did maintain my own motorcycle for several years, but that's where I draw the line.

[heifetz17]

I'm going to watch this thread for any future updates as I'm genuinely curious how much longer the car will go before major components start giving you trouble, especially if you haven't flushed the critical fluids (trans, diffs, etc.).

I flushed my trans at 68k (ZF recommends a flush at 60k) and the fluid was black as night. I'd hate to see the condition of the fluid and metal content at 120k+. I changed my diff and t-case fluid at the same time.

The timing chain issue seems to be consistent with an extended OCI, so I'm also curious what the conditioning and remaining lift of your chain and guides are as well.

My car, for comparison, has about 81k currently, and other than $800 to flush all fluids in the car at 68k miles and oil changes every 5k miles, I haven't spent any other money on the car. I've hardly spent any money at all in maintenance and no money on repairs so far.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by heifetz17

I'm going to watch this thread for any future updates as I'm genuinely curious how much longer the car will go before major components start giving you trouble, especially if you haven't flushed the critical fluids (trans, diffs, etc.).

I flushed my trans at 68k (ZF recommends a flush at 60k) and the fluid was black as night. I'd hate to see the condition of the fluid and metal content at 120k+. I changed my diff and t-case fluid at the same time.

The timing chain issue seems to be consistent with an extended OCI, so I'm also curious what the conditioning and remaining lift of your chain and guides are as well.

My car, for comparison, has about 81k currently, and other than $800 to flush all fluids in the car at 68k miles and oil changes every 5k miles, I haven't spent any other money on the car. I've hardly spent any money at all in maintenance and no money on repairs so far.

Yes, my car will be the guinea pig for that and I will update this thread if anything catastrophic happens. Do note that it is one of the earliest N20 builds, yet it hasn't had any of the major issues discussed on this forum. Also note that my expenses are all routine maintenance (top notch tires, spark plugs, brake pads, drive belt, etc., all at fairly standard intervals). The only repair was for a chafed wire in the headlight assembly. Re: OCI, if you see the Blackstone report I posted, my oil passed with flying colors with an 8k interval. The oil being in good condition is what matters.

You will start seeing more expenses around the 100k mile mark and soon thereafter. You only quote your expenses for fluids. If you haven't changed things like the plugs, engine/cabin filters, drive belt, done tire rotations, etc., you should. I can keep my expenses lower, but I like to keep my car in tip top shape while avoiding over-maintenance.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Yes, my car will be the guinea pig for that and I will update this thread if anything catastrophic happens. Do note that it is one of the earliest N20 builds, yet it hasn't had any of the major issues discussed on this forum. Also note that my expenses are all routine maintenance (top notch tires, spark plugs, brake pads, drive belt, etc., all at fairly standard intervals). The only repair was for a chafed wire in the headlight assembly. Re: OCI, if you see the Blackstone report I posted, my oil passed with flying colors with an 8k interval. The oil being in good condition is what matters.

You will start seeing more expenses around the 100k mile mark and soon thereafter. You only quote your expenses for fluids. If you haven't changed things like the plugs, engine/cabin filters, drive belt, done tire rotations, etc., you should. I can keep my expenses lower, but I like to keep my car in tip top shape while avoiding over-maintenance.

My 9/2012 built N26 (sold@8.5 yrs and 80k miles) costed $2k total out of pocket when sold.

That $2k includes:

$50-$100 x 6 6k-7k miles OCI@dealer
$150 spark plugs 60k miles@indy
$150 brake fluid@indy
$250 brake fluid + coolant special@dealer
$30 x 2 BMW cabin filters DIY
$10 x 2 BMW wiper blades DIY
$5 BMW air filter DIY
$750 x 1.5 Driveguards (road hazard replacement)

I project this $2k expense repeat every 40k miles.

Crossing 100k miles should add $1k for brakes on both axles, $300 drive belt job, $500 for OFHG.

As long as TC is good, this gen of N20/N26 appears to be quite reliable.

[M Smurf]

Arguably no different in cost with any other auto brand as far as parts go with the exception of possibly the trans fluid that I thought was high

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by M Smurf

Arguably no different in cost with any other auto brand as far as parts go with the exception of possibly the trans fluid that I thought was high

Any brand that uses ZF 8AT also has high cost of AT fluid service.

ZF does update their recommendation to 150000 km(almost 100000 miles) change interval, provided there is no high temp usage:

1. towing
2. extended autobahn speed
3. sporty driving(track use?)

If prior usage is high temperature and load, or unknown history, then interval can be shortened per ZF.

[M Smurf]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

ZF does update their recommendation to 150000 km(almost 100000 miles) change interval, provided there is no high temp usage:

INteresting! Is that new? All i've read is 60k interval. If that's the case, I'll save my $$!

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by M Smurf

INteresting! Is that new? All i've read is 60k interval. If that's the case, I'll save my $$!

This is dated 7/19/2021, so it is pretty new.

The wordings imply that even 150000 km interval is optional dependent on usage.

I would say one does have to be honest with one's usage to make sense of 60k/150k/lifetime.

"ZF automatic transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions.

In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals"

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...fluid-8-it.pdf

[bavarianride]

Also, ZF says "In principle, an oil change is only necessary when repairs are carried out."

Enthusiasts tend to believe BMW(and ZF) saying fluid is lifetime to entice costly transmission failure(and replacement).

My thinking is that as long as owners know their usages are not high temp and high load, this ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid can last past 100k miles and beyond.

[heifetz17]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Also, ZF says "In principle, an oil change is only necessary when repairs are carried out."

Enthusiasts tend to believe BMW(and ZF) saying fluid is lifetime to entice costly transmission failure(and replacement).

My thinking is that as long as owners know their usages are not high temp and high load, this ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid can last past 100k miles and beyond.

BMW has used "lifetime fluid" since the the '90's with the GM transmissions. Those GM's were well known to fail after 100k miles due to lack of fluid maintenance, although admittedly ZF failures are much less common. I wasn't aware they updated their fluid recommendations. Thanks for the link.

OP, you're correct I didn't include spark plugs in my cost, which were $64. My drive belt is original, but is nearing the end of it's service life, so I'll replace that soon. So far in the first 81k miles, it's been oil changes, all fluids flushed at 68k, and spark plugs. Nothing else. I guess air filters, but they're cheap anyway. My brake pads are nearing the end as well, so that's also coming up. $200-300 coming up I would imagine.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by heifetz17

BMW has used "lifetime fluid" since the the '90's with the GM transmissions. Those GM's were well known to fail after 100k miles due to lack of fluid maintenance, although admittedly ZF failures are much less common. I wasn't aware they updated their fluid recommendations. Thanks for the link.

Yeah ZF 8AT is garnering a reputation as a reliable and sturdy piece of hardware.

Also the BMW AT + throttle map programming is optimized for fuel efficiency such that the gear box gets to 6th and overdrives quickly(with engine rpm@2k 65mph).

So normal DD likely does not entice high temp/load operations that much.

I would say if towing, track use, and/or sustained autobahn speed, are not the typical usages, following ZF's 150000 km (or lifetime?) interval may not be bad.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by heifetz17

OP, you're correct I didn't include spark plugs in my cost, which were $64. My drive belt is original, but is nearing the end of it's service life, so I'll replace that soon. So far in the first 81k miles, it's been oil changes, all fluids flushed at 68k, and spark plugs. Nothing else. I guess air filters, but they're cheap anyway. My brake pads are nearing the end as well, so that's also coming up. $200-300 coming up I would imagine.

Good to hear. And since you seem to do you own work, your costs are much lower

[JUSKIDN]

I bought a 2013 328i M sport from Germany in late 2012 while I was in the military. I have since given it to my daughter and it currently has 160K miles. Only problem was one of the turbos had to be replaced about 4 years ago. Other than that just regular maintenance.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by JUSKIDN

I bought a 2013 328i M sport from Germany in late 2012 while I was in the military. I have since given it to my daughter and it currently has 160K miles. Only problem was one of the turbos had to be replaced about 4 years ago. Other than that just regular maintenance.

Glad to hear. The car only has one turbo. The turbo is a known issue on these engines, with a wastegate leak being the most common point of failure. I am staring at that issue right now in my car. My indy told me that these turbos (with a pneumatic wastegate) almost always end up failing whether OEM or not.