04-04-2018, 09:47 PM | #23 | |
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04-05-2018, 01:39 AM | #25 |
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can you elaborate a bit more? thanks in advance
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04-05-2018, 02:08 AM | #26 |
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I stand corrected on our issue now that I think about it. In our case, it's highly unlikely that we're getting compressor surge. It's very likely valve flutter that we're getting. If you're getting during WOT or after WOT, then I'd call it compressor surge. This only occurs at low boost in my case, which is causing the valve to bounce. Normal and not harmful
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04-05-2018, 05:36 AM | #27 |
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OP, THANKS for the steps. No way the 5mm will fit if it's not grinded? Also how is the wastegate removed. Thanks
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04-05-2018, 06:54 AM | #28 | |
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04-05-2018, 09:11 AM | #29 |
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Your welcome, and yes you need to be girded down the tool because you won't able to fit the tool between the block and DV the clearance is super tight and you need to go in an angle already. The waste gate is held by 2 screws and you won't be removing it you will be moving it up and to the side. Hope that helps.
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04-05-2018, 09:13 AM | #30 |
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that's kind of what I was thinking. I know compressor surge is no good, but that's the flutter you hear on supras and the like. if the DV+ causes this, then I'm definitely going to avoid it. but if not, like you asked, where is this flutter coming from? what valve, the diverter valve?
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04-05-2018, 09:24 AM | #31 |
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Compressor surge is when the valve doesn’t open and the air doesn’t escape the bypass valve because the spring is too stiff. This causes the excess air to bounce back and forth between the throttle body and the turbo. This can damage the turbo. Basically the air is banging into the compressor wheel of the turbo, that’s the flutter sound.
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04-05-2018, 09:27 AM | #32 | |
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Many high hp turbo cars get low boost compressor surge because the springs are so stiff in their blow off valves because they need to hold 50 psi of boost so during normal driving and low boost the valve will not open. |
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04-05-2018, 09:35 AM | #33 | ||
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TLDR: Fluttering at low RPM is perfectly normal with a DV+. This is NOT compressor surge and is simply the stiffer spring allowing only the amount of boost out needed to prevent compressor surge. If you get this at full throttle or full throttle liftoff/high rpm liftoff, then you might want to ensure it was installed correctly.
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04-05-2018, 09:36 AM | #34 | |
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04-05-2018, 09:39 AM | #35 |
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Agree to disagree.
If the valve is “fluttering”, this means it’s closing and air bounces back to the turbo and then back to the valve again to reopen it. This is a light surge. If at any point during light throttle the valve opens, closes, opens, during a shift, the air has to go somewhere during the closed period. That’s back into the compressor of the turbo. |
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04-05-2018, 09:52 AM | #36 | |
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"During assembly, you can choose to install the main piston spring (indicated below by the arrow) or not. Using the spring is recommended because it results in the best possible throttle response and minimum lag on gearshift, particularly on manual cars. This can sometimes result in a slightly different sound from the intake at low RPM, which is no cause for alarm – it’s simply the different way in which the valve works. If however the noise is objectionable, removing the spring will make the DV+ operate the same way as the factory valve, albeit at the expense of throttle response. To explain further, minimum lag on gearshift on any petrol turbo engine is achieved when the diverter or blow-off valve vents only just enough air to prevent compressor surge. Venting more air than necessary increases lag on gearshift because the intercooler is completely relieved of pressure, meaning it takes longer to return to peak boost when the throttle is re-opened. This is the basis behind GFB’s TMS principle (as explained in this article here), and is also the principle that all GFB valves operate on. The DV+ is no exception, because unlike the factory diverter, the DV+ opens and closes in response to both the ECU command AND the amount of boost pressure in the intercooler. So when the ECU triggers the solenoid, the DV+ piston will only open as far as the boost pressure in the intercooler can push it against the spring. The factory diverter on the other hand will simply open regardless of the boost pressure. The different sound you may hear on throttle lift-off at low RPM is simply because of this different operation method, and it does not adversely affect the turbo or engine. Removing the spring means the DV+ piston will simply open and close when directed by the ECU, just as the factory diverter does. Rest assured that even with the spring removed, the DV+ will still continue to hold boost normally, however you will forfeit the benefit of the TMS principle and throttle response will be the same as with the factory diverter."
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04-05-2018, 10:09 AM | #37 |
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So I understand it as the stronger spring in the upgraded diverter valve DOES cause surge at lower boost levels because it's stronger. But being stronger obviously can handle higher boost levels much better than the stock one. This seems like one of those "stock is a compromise of both X and Y application; this one is really good at Y application, but not good as stock on X"
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04-05-2018, 10:33 AM | #38 | |
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04-05-2018, 10:38 AM | #39 |
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I think I'm with BunkerJ on this one. after some reading, I understand the flutter is caused by the valve, which vents less boost at low rpm than the stock DV because the stock DV vents too much, thus allowing the DV+ to help hold boost. compressor surge would happen when not enough boost gets vented and bounces back against the compressor. if I'm misunderstood, please let me know, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works here.
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04-05-2018, 10:42 AM | #40 | |
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04-05-2018, 10:44 AM | #41 | |
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Some companies for turbo cars make multi piston designs to help mitigate this. I ran a tial single piston on my 700whp sti. It held boost but would get light surge, it does shorten the life of the turbo a bit, but not enough to where I would care since at that power level, things break a lot anyways on a 4 cylinder. In the grand scheme, GFB isn’t a super high end bpv, so I wouldn’t expect a lot out of it. People don’t use those at high power levels. Last edited by ilivas; 04-05-2018 at 10:53 AM.. |
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04-05-2018, 10:50 AM | #42 | |
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04-05-2018, 10:51 AM | #43 | |
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Ah okay. Understood. I might have a misunderstanding of what compressor surge is then. Off topic... do you think it'd be possible to install this with long ball end screw drivers, patience, with just the intake and charge pipe off? I have a 428i xdrive n26 ewg... thanks. |
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04-05-2018, 10:51 AM | #44 | |
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There are varying degrees of compressor surge. Full on compressor surge happens when the valve is stuck shut or you don’t have a bypass valve or blow off valve at all. |
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