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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Cosmetic Maintenance: Wash, Wax, Detailing, Repairs > The Mother of All "How to Remove Swirls & Scratches for Novices" Thread!
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      04-17-2016, 07:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
Used a microfiber applicator and some w205. The ol college try resulted in some smooth paint and almost no swirls - quite happy with the results. Keep in mind the car is 3 weeks old.

Anyway - I'll checked out the machine that another member recommended.
Two things. Depending on what level of perfection you are going for, I would love to see a flash test of your finished results. The flash test is the tell all of tell all. When you see what your paint looks like after the flash test, I bet that you will QUICKLY start looking for a polisher because there ain't no way in Bethlehem that you are going to get the results by hand that you will get with a machine.

Here's what the flash test did for another person who THOUGHT that his paint looked good. He TOLD me it was flawless, although he had NEVER washed it with water (only a waterless product like ONR). He also bought his towels in bulk from Costco, because they were the best towels that he had ever used bar none. I told him to bring me his car and when he pulled up, I could immediately see his damage. He couldn't, because he was stilled plugged into the paint Matrix. Here's what I saw:



Then I unplugged him from the paint Matrix and opened his eyes with "the flash test." Here's what HE saw, and everyone standing around because they were curious too:



Them swirls showed up like scattering roaches when the light comes on!

Needless to say, he about broke his jaw when it hit the ground. I never unplug a mind before it's time so I don't share what I know with everyone. But if I feel a person is ready for the truth, I will let them know. Since we are all here because we care about the appearance of our cars, I feel that anyone reading this is ready to be unplugged (if they haven't already as some of you have ). So if you really think your paint looks good after what you've done, now you know how to find out the truth.

By the way, I took a polisher and went over that spot ONCE. Here's what it looked like after just one pass. His daughter was tickled pink. She was pretty hot too.





Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Three week old car and your already getting swirls out...oh shit..time to find out the right way to wash your car. Junkman can help you with that.
That was the first thought that came to my mind too!

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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
So, new cars come with swirls? Is that an option? Or can you choose: swirl delete.
Not saying you particularly made the swirls--maybe took it too some wash and almost none of those guys let you out swirl free. The only way is to wash yourself--actually I made some swirls in my car recently drying with those crap towels from China I have. Junkman, cleared that up for me.
Yea, those cheap China towels sold at the auto stores are like 6000 grit sandpaper. I wouldn't wish that crap on my worse enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudhrysn View Post
Whenever I go to dealerships, I like to check out the new cars for a couple reasons: to check them out and to see the swirls on them. You'd be surprised at how many of these new cars already come with swirls somehow. It's ridiculous. Even at the Porsche dealership, a new panamera GTS had some swirls in the paint.
You should give them the baggy test too. It would blow you away how bad of a shape the paint is on a brand new car sitting on a dealership lot.

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Those "cheap" China towels are not cheap..I bought mine for 9$ each and I have two of them. I already have a bunch of even cheaper micros I use for exhaust tips and wheels...Bummer....lot's of this stuff is trial and error. My towels from the rag company are due to arrive monday..then the palm test.
OMG. Brother, somebody saw you coming if you paid that much. Wait until you get your new towels. You will be kicking yourself for days.
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      04-17-2016, 07:54 PM   #46
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here ya go Junkman2008, i'm ready for your critique.

all pics are of random spot on the hood.

photos taken with iPhone 5s inside my garage with CFL lighting and no photo correction at all (snap, upload in that order).

finally - thanks for posting and helping out the detailing noobs. I try my best to avoid swirls with two bucket method, foam cannon, good MF towels, 2 wash mits, clay and detail spray, Mazerna/Wolfgangs sealant, Adams Americana/Collinite wax.

dark blue is Estoril Blue II
light blue is yas marina blue











random pic from yesterday documentation small rock chip on hood:

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      04-17-2016, 09:41 PM   #47
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Did you post pics of the car? I was too busy looking at the girl.
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His daughter was tickled pink. She was pretty hot too.


.















OMG. Brother, somebody saw you coming if you paid that much. Wait until you get your new towels. You will be kicking yourself for days.
Tomorrow, I get em!
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      04-18-2016, 12:44 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
here ya go Junkman2008, i'm ready for your critique.
I definitely can't find any swirls in those pics. Pretty much looks perfect from here as far as swirls go. The only thing I can see that would improve significantly is your depth of shine. That you will be able to achieve with a polisher, a white pad and a light polish like Optimum's Polish II. Here's what I mean by depth, using my own ride. This color is called Midnight Pearl Blue. It looks like you can stick your finger THROUGH the paint. You can only achieve that kind of depth with a light polish and a polisher. There is NO WAX OR SEALANT on that paint:





Quote:
Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
I try my best to avoid swirls with two bucket method, foam cannon, good MF towels, 2 wash mits, clay and detail spray, Mazerna/Wolfgangs sealant, Adams Americana/Collinite wax.
Save yourself some serious money and drop the Americana. Adam's doesn't manufacture any products they sell, those products are manufactured for them. Americana under another name will cost you half of what you're paying. If you want something just as good if not better, go with Collinite’s Marque D’Elegance Carnauba Paste Wax. You only need one carnuba paste wax and that one is the best I have used as far as longevity is concerned. You also only need ONE sealant. I like Hi-Temp's sealants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
random pic from yesterday documentation small rock chip on hood:
I see two choices in order to fix that if you are good at following instructions TO THE LETTER. Langka or Dr. Colorchip. Google them both and read until your eyes bleed.
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Last edited by Junkman2008; 04-18-2016 at 07:31 PM..
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      04-18-2016, 12:50 AM   #49
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Did you post pics of the car? I was too busy looking at the girl.
Dude, I felt like the dirtiest old man in the room while checking her out. She was like 19 and had body for days. I wanted to get pictures of her standing next to the car but daddy must have seen the twinkle in my eye and wouldn't leave her for a second!
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      04-18-2016, 06:22 PM   #50
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My towels have arrived!! Sucka, is super soft...don't have time to do any polishing now--will have to wait til next week, but it is for sure a difference. The waffle weave looks to be of pretty good quality as well.
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      04-18-2016, 07:34 PM   #51
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Now you know why I raved about them in the video. It's like updating your dating pool from Rosanne Barr to Denyca Lawton. Now THAT'S an upgrade!

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      04-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #52
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dude you're hilarious...love the comments...looks like the hunt will go on for me, rag company would be extremely expensive to get their stuff to Canada.
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      04-19-2016, 11:45 PM   #53
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dude you're hilarious...love the comments...looks like the hunt will go on for me, rag company would be extremely expensive to get their stuff to Canada.
I think they have a special rate for Canada. Did you check with them?
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      04-20-2016, 12:14 AM   #54
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dude you're hilarious...love the comments...looks like the hunt will go on for me, rag company would be extremely expensive to get their stuff to Canada.
Why would it be expensive? They are in Idaho. Think like this: the crap towels in the store are how much? Right. So pay a few bucks more and have a towel that makes your work worth it. I still have not tried it on my car..but next week will.
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      04-25-2016, 09:10 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
I think they have a special rate for Canada. Did you check with them?
Thanks, I'll check with them
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      04-25-2016, 03:04 PM   #56
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Just did a wash and after water drying, used my new waffle weave from the Rag company and then got the polisher out and used the new towel from Korea. HUGE difference. Instead of polishing swirls out and then wiping the stuff off with sandpaper I am wiping off the way it is supposed to be done and keeping my swirls off instead of adding new ones.

Getting pretty good results with Meguier's Ultimate compound. Started with some 105 but was getting muted sun and the car being warm was drying out the polish...moved to shade but my heavy pad was done which leads to my next question:
How do you know when a pad is done for the day? How much time or area? I can feel it gets smooth so I move on to the next pad. I only have one orange pad, one white and a finishing pad, so the amount of time I can put in is limited...not a terrible thing as I prefer to go little by little. I only have a couple hours at a time and that includes wash.
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      04-25-2016, 08:06 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
... How do you know when a pad is done for the day? How much time or area? I can feel it gets smooth so I move on to the next pad. I only have one orange pad, one white and a finishing pad, so the amount of time I can put in is limited...not a terrible thing as I prefer to go little by little. I only have a couple hours at a time and that includes wash.
Your questions tell me one thing for sure. You need to watch these videos AGAIN.

Here's what I am seeing. First, you started working in direct sunlight. I have been doing this for longer than some of the people reading this are old and I NEVER do this in direct sunlight unless I am putting on a detail clinic at a car show an have no choice. NOTHING goes right in direct sunlight. The compound dries way too fast, it creates more dust than a saw mill and your pads become useless quicker than a butter knife on a Waffle House steak. Working in direct sunlight has DOOM written all over it and I have to fight with both the pad and the compound when I show people how to do this at an outdoor show. If I have that much trouble as someone who knows what they are doing, guess what it must be like for a novice? Actually, you now know first hand.

Working in the CORRECT environment, I can take one orange pad and do an entire car without stopping to clean the pad. How? The environment coupled with my TECHNIQUE is exactly how. My technique when followed to the letter will result in the pad NOT clogging because you will keep it flushed. You have assumed that only PART of what I said in those videos is important. EVERYTHING that I say in those videos is EQUALLY important. I explain this in detail throughout the videos. If you drop ANY aspect of what I show and tell, then you open yourself up to the very issues that you are having.

With all that said, you need to go back to the video where I start the actual correction work and watch those videos again. It would probably be better if you watched them all again (while taking NOTES), because if you missed that much of the polishing part, you probably missed just as much of the other videos too. It's funny, I've had guys (not you) complain that I repeat myself too much in my videos and then they proceed to ask a question that I've answered in the videos multiple times. My standard answer to them is short and sweet. "Go watch the videos again."

So in order to remedy the issues that you are having, go through those videos again and look at all the things you are doing wrong. There is no way that you can watch those videos once and know what to do. All that information is like a college course in paint correction. It's information overload and requires multiple views. Once you do that, you will quickly see what needs to be done in order to resolve the issues you are having. You will also drastically speed up the results that you are getting. You have what you need to be more successful than you are right now (minus a few pads), now all you need to do is "stay on the yellow brick road." As Dorothy found out, good things never happen when you venture off the yellow brick road.

I can see your shiny car down that road. Can you see it?

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      04-26-2016, 10:27 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
Your questions tell me one thing for sure. You need to watch these videos AGAIN.

Here's what I am seeing. First, you started working in direct sunlight. I have been doing this for longer than some of the people reading this are old and I NEVER do this in direct sunlight unless I am putting on a detail clinic at a car show an have no choice. NOTHING goes right in direct sunlight. The compound dries way too fast, it creates more dust than a saw mill and your pads become useless quicker than a butter knife on a Waffle House steak. Working in direct sunlight has DOOM written all over it and I have to fight with both the pad and the compound when I show people how to do this at an outdoor show. If I have that much trouble as someone who knows what they are doing, guess what it must be like for a novice? Actually, you now know first hand.

Working in the CORRECT environment, I can take one orange pad and do an entire car without stopping to clean the pad. How? The environment coupled with my TECHNIQUE is exactly how. My technique when followed to the letter will result in the pad NOT clogging because you will keep it flushed. You have assumed that only PART of what I said in those videos is important. EVERYTHING that I say in those videos is EQUALLY important. I explain this in detail throughout the videos. If you drop ANY aspect of what I show and tell, then you open yourself up to the very issues that you are having.

With all that said, you need to go back to the video where I start the actual correction work and watch those videos again. It would probably be better if you watched them all again (while taking NOTES), because if you missed that much of the polishing part, you probably missed just as much of the other videos too. It's funny, I've had guys (not you) complain that I repeat myself too much in my videos and then they proceed to ask a question that I've answered in the videos multiple times. My standard answer to them is short and sweet. "Go watch the videos again."

So in order to remedy the issues that you are having, go through those videos again and look at all the things you are doing wrong. There is no way that you can watch those videos once and know what to do. All that information is like a college course in paint correction. It's information overload and requires multiple views. Once you do that, you will quickly see what needs to be done in order to resolve the issues you are having. You will also drastically speed up the results that you are getting. You have what you need to be more successful than you are right now (minus a few pads), now all you need to do is "stay on the yellow brick road." As Dorothy found out, good things never happen when you venture off the yellow brick road.

I can see your shiny car down that road. Can you see it?

Yeah, your right! Unfortunately, I have to do my work outside, but luckily I have a big tree in my front yard...I started with partial shade and the sun moved into my work space and uhhh..I got a little lazy in moving the car right away like I should have and as you said my pad became useless quick as I was polishing a warm car. I did move it back under the tree and got much better results.
Here is my car under the tree.

Moral of the story: don't be lazy and follow Junk man's instructions. But, once again the towel is a huge improvement in my technique.

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      04-26-2016, 12:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Yeah, your right! Unfortunately, I have to do my work outside, but luckily I have a big tree in my front yard...I started with partial shade and the sun moved into my work space and uhhh..I got a little lazy in moving the car right away like I should have and as you said my pad became useless quick as I was polishing a warm car. I did move it back under the tree and got much better results.
Here is my car under the tree.
Once that paint gets warm, forgettaboutit. You are fighting an uphill battle after that. You may want to try working at the crack of dawn but any sunlight will heat up the panels pretty quick. A popup car cover will be better than a tree. Popup car cover don't drip sap and stuff all over the car and it doesn't give the birds any place to hang out and screw with you. Because Lord knows, birds can tell when you're fixing paint.

Quote:
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Moral of the story: don't be lazy and follow Junk man's instructions. But, once again the towel is a huge improvement in my technique.
I 1000% believe you!
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      05-04-2016, 10:44 PM   #60
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Once that paint gets warm, forgettaboutit. You are fighting an uphill battle after that. You may want to try working at the crack of dawn but any sunlight will heat up the panels pretty quick. A popup car cover will be better than a tree. Popup car cover don't drip sap and stuff all over the car and it doesn't give the birds any place to hang out and screw with you. Because Lord knows, birds can tell when you're fixing paint.



I 1000% believe you!
After a couple more sessions with my new Korean towel and polishing out of the sun, I'm getting excellent results. The trunk had light swirls--hit it with M105 and the towel and bam..95% out. My technique is definitely getting better but the biggest thing holding me back all this time was the towel. I spent a lot of time taking swirls out and then a lot of time rubbing new ones back in....the Rag Company..great find Junkman
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      05-05-2016, 12:10 AM   #61
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... I spent a lot of time taking swirls out and then a lot of time rubbing new ones back in....
If you just knew how many times I cringe at car shows every time I see people using those Costco/auto store towels on their show cars...

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      05-06-2016, 11:17 PM   #62
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I cant beliece i am saying this:

I love you Junkman !
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      05-07-2016, 02:36 AM   #63
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I cant beliece i am saying this:

I love you Junkman !
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      05-13-2016, 04:36 PM   #64
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If you just knew how many times I cringe at car shows every time I see people using those Costco/auto store towels on their show cars...

Junkman,
So things have been going pretty good on the paint correction front except for one issue I have been difficulty resolving: micro-marring. On a door panel I have been able to get the swirls and scratches out but have been left with the holographic micro- scratches. Went over it with the M105 again and used my clean rag co. towel and they are still there. I don't have that on other parts of the car which I used the same products and technique.

The M105 and orange pad should cut that right? I tried some Meguier's Ultimate compound as well. I'm not sure if you said in your vids, to use M205 to cut those out. I watched them a while back. I got my system down, but got this gliche going. I'm assuming it is something with my towel....don't tell me it went Chinese on me?
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      05-13-2016, 05:49 PM   #65
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You need to make a video of you buffing on the car and show me exactly what you are doing and the results of what you've done. If you tried to get that out with M205, that makes me think that you need to watch those videos again. I can instantly spot what your issue is when I see you work.
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      05-13-2016, 07:12 PM   #66
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Quote:
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You need to make a video of you buffing on the car and show me exactly what you are doing and the results of what you've done. If you tried to get that out with M205, that makes me think that you need to watch those videos again. I can instantly spot what your issue is when I see you work.
Hard for me to do the vid thing--I don't have the fancy camera setup like you and when I am working typically no one is around. I didn't use M205 as I don't have that product--I have the Ultimate compound which according to Meguier's (who I have spoken with directly) that is a comparable product.

Here's the deal that gets me: I did most of the car and it came out great and on that door panel the micro marring...not bad but a little bit. My hood is nearly perfect and I did parts of that the same day as the door panel.
So, a question for you: is micro marring more invasive on the paint versus swirls?
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