[330istocknot]

Hello

My car is a black 2014 328i, pain is in good condition, but i have a lot of water marks, and im looking to clay bar it, and hope the water stains go away, then i want to wax it by hand, i bought the wax butter, and i was thinking, can i then apply the ceramic coating?

This is my first time for all these 3 things. my goal is to have a shiny as possible car without watermarks and possible minor scratches waxed away by hand.

Is the clay bar, wax, then ceramic the correct order? or some of those dont mix?

Thanks all!

[ATL_Nak-Muay]

Clay bar first to clean the surface then ceramic or wax/top seal. You don't want to mix the two.

[Billfitz]

IMO none of the above. Depending on how much correction is needed I buff with Menzerna polishes, Steps 1, 2 and 3 (Step 1 for serious spider webbing) and finish it off with Jescar Power Lock. If you were to use ceramic it would go on in place of the Power Lock. Wax is fine...on linoleum.

[Skyhigh]

A few things:

- Watermarks will most likely not disappear with a clay bar. Clay bar has a different purpose - to remove particles which are stuck on the clear-coat. Try chemical products for water marks (E.g. chemical guys have such a product, never tried it myself though: https://www.chemicalguys.com/heavy-d...t-remover.html). If that doesn't work - polishing / buffing is the way to go

- Waxing is a good idea once you clean the clear-coat of watermarks / dirt / particles

- Ceramic coat is also a good idea, but you don't put ceramic coat on top of wax the same way you don't put mayonnaise on top of butter! It is either, or! Research and inform yourself about the Pros and Cons before selecting. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

Very top-level sequence:
1. Pre-wash
2. Thorough wash
3. Clean surface (tar removal, ironX, IPA, clay bar - any or all of those, depending on the clear-coat condition and how thorough you want to be)
4. Buffing/Polishing - optional, depending on clear-coat condition.
5. Wax / Sealant / Ceramic coating - depending on the desired outcome, all 3 have advantages and disadvantages. But it is any of the 3, never more

[Onizukachan]

I use the chemical guys stuff on my glass shower door to take out HARD water spots, it is a gel so easier to apply than that other standby… vinegar.

Mostly what you geton a car though would come right out with any of the speed wax products. I used to use meguirs, and now I use chemical guys. Prefered the meguirs.

[Skyhigh]

Vinegar solution is a well known method for removing water stains in the bathroom. Wouldn't use it on a car clearcoat though.

[ECTO1]

I would say the only true way to get water spots removed would be to polish as they are usually ettched in the cars clear coat or ceramic. You are on the right track with clay bar. As a paint prep.
If it it was me. I would

1Decon wash the car
2 iron/ tar remove
3 clay bar
4 polish
5 protect with ceramic or wax got to pick one as these don't mix well think oil and water
Now if your worried about etching in the future from hard water or rain I would recommend wax as it's easier to deal with a good combo is jecar power lock topped with colinite 845. You can always top up the wax after every wash if you want completely up to you though.

[Onizukachan]

As indicated above, Never clay bar bar (ie scratch up) your paint unless you are go)g to polish it (ie remove paint) to flatten it back out,p and get rid of the scratches you put in it after. keep in mind also you only have a limited number of polishes and such before your clear is too thin so don’t be one of those people that clays and polishes every other weekend.


Yes a ceramic coat goes on before wax. The wax protects the ceramic and the paint underneath, other wise you are ceramic coating your 2-4 week lasting wax job not your decade lasting paint.

[CincyBearcats]

Originally Posted by Onizukachan

I used to use meguirs, and now I use chemical guys. Prefered the meguirs.

Would you care to expand on this a bit?

New F31 owner here. Black over black, and it has tons of water spots from the previous owner. If I'm going to spend an entire weekend with "wax on" and "wax off" exercises, I wanna make sure that I get it right the first time. Thanks!

[Onizukachan]

Megs speed shine (blue color) worked great with less product than the CG… but is now apparently defunct. So I use CG (pink color) instead.

[CincyBearcats]

Thanks to everyone for the advice here and on other similar threads. In particular, a big thanks to Billfitz! His recommendation of Menzerna products got me on the right track.

I just purchased a 2017 F31 in sapphire metallic. The previous owner had completely neglected the paint. It was covered in swirl marks, deep scratches, rock chips, and various blemishes. I was able to remove 95% of the swirl marks, 90% of the scratches, and 100% of the blemishes. While not perfect, it looks WAY better than it did a week ago. The metal roof and sunroof glass are now nearly indistinguishable! From a few feet away, the entire car looks like a black mirror.

I ended up going pretty deep down the detailing rabbit hole. If you care to come along, here are the steps that I took:

1. wash with car shampoo
2. wash with Simple Green (8 oz with 4 gal water)
3. (remove iron with a proper spray, such as Iron X; I later learned that I should have done this step)
4. clay bar (lubricate with spray bottle of car shampoo and water) and rinse with water
5. clean with isopropyl alcohol (70% ISA, 30% water)
6. mask windows, lights, etc. with blue painter’s masking tape
7. polish with Menzerna 400; T120 green heavy cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 5; use slow overlapping passes (~1 in/s, 50% overlap), 4 passes on all horizontal surfaces (horizontal-vertical-horizontal-vertical), 2 passes on vertical surfaces (vertical-vertical); use three dime-sized dots of polish for a 2’ x 2’ area; first touch pad to multiple places on panel and then spread polish using speed 1; after 2 or 3 areas of application, clean pad by spinning it against a stiff nylon brush (used a kitchen dish cleaning brush); change pads after a large section of the car (used 3 pads total: one pad for hood, roof, rear, front; one pad for driver side; one pad for passenger side)
8. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
9. polish with Menzerna 2500; T80 yellow medium cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 5; use slightly faster passes
10. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
11. polish with Menzerna 3800; T60 orange light cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 6 (max); use same speed of passes as with 2500
12. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
13. clean with isopropyl alcohol
14. remove masking tape
15. wash with Simple Green (8 oz with 4 gal water); spray with high pressure in all the places where polish residue/dust has collected; let soap soak on paint for a few minutes and wipe a second time
16. seal with Menzerna Power Lock Ultimate Protection polymer sealant; T20 red finish polish SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 3.5; use three pea-sized dots of polish for a 4’ x 4’ area (very thin layer; goes a very long way); apply by hand with a foam pad; go right up to trim and glass because it is very easy to remove; actually applied sealant directly to roof cargo rails
17. wait overnight (must have at least 4 hr between coats)
18. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
19. seal a second time with Menzerna PL.
20. wait at least 1 hr
21. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
22. wash with car shampoo
23. spray with Menzerna Endless Shine

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by CincyBearcats

I ended up going pretty deep down the detailing rabbit hole. If you care to come along, here are the steps that I took:

1. wash with car shampoo
2. wash with Simple Green (8 oz with 4 gal water)
3. (remove iron with a proper spray, such as Iron X; I later learned that I should have done this step)
4. clay bar (lubricate with spray bottle of car shampoo and water) and rinse with water
5. clean with isopropyl alcohol (70% ISA, 30% water)
6. mask windows, lights, etc. with blue painter’s masking tape
7. polish with Menzerna 400; T120 green heavy cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 5; use slow overlapping passes (~1 in/s, 50% overlap), 4 passes on all horizontal surfaces (horizontal-vertical-horizontal-vertical), 2 passes on vertical surfaces (vertical-vertical); use three dime-sized dots of polish for a 2’ x 2’ area; first touch pad to multiple places on panel and then spread polish using speed 1; after 2 or 3 areas of application, clean pad by spinning it against a stiff nylon brush (used a kitchen dish cleaning brush); change pads after a large section of the car (used 3 pads total: one pad for hood, roof, rear, front; one pad for driver side; one pad for passenger side)
8. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
9. polish with Menzerna 2500; T80 yellow medium cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 5; use slightly faster passes
10. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
11. polish with Menzerna 3800; T60 orange light cut SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 6 (max); use same speed of passes as with 2500
12. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
13. clean with isopropyl alcohol
14. remove masking tape
15. wash with Simple Green (8 oz with 4 gal water); spray with high pressure in all the places where polish residue/dust has collected; let soap soak on paint for a few minutes and wipe a second time
16. seal with Menzerna Power Lock Ultimate Protection polymer sealant; T20 red finish polish SPTA pad; 7424XP speed 3.5; use three pea-sized dots of polish for a 4’ x 4’ area (very thin layer; goes a very long way); apply by hand with a foam pad; go right up to trim and glass because it is very easy to remove; actually applied sealant directly to roof cargo rails
17. wait overnight (must have at least 4 hr between coats)
18. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
19. seal a second time with Menzerna PL.
20. wait at least 1 hr
21. wipe away residue with a microfiber cloth
22. wash with car shampoo
23. spray with Menzerna Endless Shine

Great job. Since ceramic is discussed here, I need to emphasize that the paint really should be touched up, corrected, and decontaminated before any ceramic is applied. Otherwise, any imperfections will be locked in. And no other products be applied for at least a week after application.

Above is a pretty good procedure, but if you're going the ceramic route, the deviations start after Step 15. You'd need to decon with alcohol one last time prior to applying the coat per manufacturer's procedure.

[CincyBearcats]

Originally Posted by capt_slow

Great job. Since ceramic is discussed here, I need to emphasize that the paint really should be touched up, corrected, and decontaminated before any ceramic is applied. Otherwise, any imperfections will be locked in. And no other products be applied for at least a week after application.

Above is a pretty good procedure, but if you're going the ceramic route, the deviations start after Step 15. You'd need to decon with alcohol one last time prior to applying the coat per manufacturer's procedure.

Thanks for the feedback. I would love to see your detailed list of steps. This was the first time that I have ever done this level of detailing, so I'm definitely still learning.

Regarding the additional alcohol decontamination step, why is that necessary? I did alcohol decontamination after the last polishing step. I then washed with Simple Green to remove the polish dust that had remained in the various cracks and seams. Would the residue from the Simple Green and rinse water really have that much of an effect on clear coat that had already been decontaminated?

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by CincyBearcats

Regarding the additional alcohol decontamination step, why is that necessary? I did alcohol decontamination after the last polishing step. I then washed with Simple Green to remove the polish dust that had remained in the various cracks and seams. Would the residue from the Simple Green and rinse water really have that much of an effect on clear coat that had already been decontaminated?

You need bare clean paint in order for the ceramic to form a chemical bond to the paint. There cannot be any grease, residue, or foreign chemicals left on the paint otherwise the ceramic wont adhere properly. It's the same reason why some people use Dawn as their car wash soap when prepping a car for ceramic, it's an excellent degreaser.

[CincyBearcats]

Originally Posted by capt_slow

You need bare clean paint in order for the ceramic to form a chemical bond to the paint. There cannot be any grease, residue, or foreign chemicals left on the paint otherwise the ceramic wont adhere properly. It's the same reason why some people use Dawn as their car wash soap when prepping a car for ceramic, it's an excellent degreaser.

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused by your last comment. I used Simple Green because it is an excellent degreaser, just like Dawn dish soap. If you're saying that Dawn is ok to use as the last step prior to applying a ceramic coating, then why wouldn't Simple Green be ok, too? Thanks.

[Solidjake]

Jescar Powerlock Plus is amazing, been using it for years. I apply it three times a year (before winter, after winter when it warms up and sometime around June as a refresher)

[John in VA]

Originally Posted by CincyBearcats

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused by your last comment. I used Simple Green because it is an excellent degreaser, just like Dawn dish soap. If you're saying that Dawn is ok to use as the last step prior to applying a ceramic coating, then why wouldn't Simple Green be ok, too? Thanks.

There are better/safer products to strip your exterior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdWN...6AutoDetailing