[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

I don't get out on my bike as often as I'd like, but from a cyclist's perspective number 3 is the only one that'd get my vote. Possible exception for really badly surfaced cycle lanes.

[sahajesh]

Cycling really isn't in the national psyche here, so trying to force co-operation and "awareness" isn't going to work.

On a personal note, I just don't get why (even with cycle lanes), anybody would willingly risk their life using a bike on the road, in the UK.

Plenty of off-road opportunities to exercise and surely that's more fun than just pounding the tarmac. Is being green worth the risk of permanent disability?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post and I'm simplifying/picking and choosing my arguments but it's what I think.

[Wills2]

We're losing all sense of proportion and individual responsibility, these new rules will just compound that within a certain set of individuals that think being right is better than being safe.

I walk 20 miles a week on single track moorland roads I'll still be giving way and stopping for cars/cyclists and motor bikes and will not be exercising my new "right" because, well because I'm not "that guy" The same will apply to when I'm cycling you won't find me riding in the middle of the road either...

Christ how have we got here?

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Cycling really isn't in the national psyche here, so trying to force co-operation and "awareness" isn't going to work.

On a personal note, I just don't get why (even with cycle lanes), anybody would willingly risk their life using a bike on the road, in the UK.

Plenty of off-road opportunities to exercise and surely that's more fun than just pounding the tarmac. Is being green worth the risk of permanent disability?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post and I'm simplifying/picking and choosing my arguments but it's what I think.

There are plenty of studies that demonstrate the benefits of cycling far out way the risks.

I cycle 7 miles each way to work, pre covid 5 days a week, now currently 4 days a week, all year round.

1) Its good, regular physical exercise. When I was WFH I started running, but difficult to get into the same type of routine. If you just have cycling as your default mode of transport everyday, it's a no brainer exercise wise.
2) Saves me money
3) Good for the environment, every one less car journey each way improves local air quality, even if it makes bugger all difference on a global scale.
4) Reduces congestion, so that those they really do need to use a car / van / bus are moving more efficiently

Yes, there is a minor chance that I could be involved in a serious accident, but an assertive approach to road positioning, awareness of what is going on around you, and common sense mitigate that, and if I didn't cycle, I'm far more likely to be a candidate for heart attack / other poor health related illness.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

On a personal note, I just don't get why (even with cycle lanes), anybody would willingly risk their life using a bike on the road, in the UK.

I've been commuting/riding my pedal bike on UK roads for as long as I've been driving.

I've had x2 collisions with cars in that time, once was my fault I simply didn't slow down enough for a junction and ended up taking a trip across the bonnet of a car that was stationary. The second time was when a driver decided to run a red light at a pedestrians crossing whilst in rush hour traffic, I could have been a pedestrian, jogger, another car, he just wasn't looking.

I've had plenty of 'close' calls, but nearly all of them are related to me going quickly - apart from the nutter running a red light whilst stopped I've never once felt 'unsafe' on the roads.

I have hit the deck countless times though, twice in the last 18 months, and many times before that. Every time it was just me going too fast around the corner for the conditions. The scariest was probably some 10 years ago when I thought I was heading off a bridge but luckily some crash barriers saved my bacon!!!

Why do I do it? Its a rush, we talk about 'steering feel', 'back end grip' etc in cars, forget all that on a pedal bike your 'connection' to the road and machine is x100 more visceral than any car could ever be, add in the knowledge of how much it'll hurt if you get it wrong and the 'rush' really doe make you feel alive in a way cars just don't. If you 'enjoy' driving you will love cycling, and its damn addictive.

Anyone who rides motorbikes am sure 'gets it', but the difference is accidents on a motorbike bike will be at much higher speeds, I was doing 15mph when I fell off a few weeks ago, the potential for injury is so much lower.

You will have noticed the theme to my accidents/falls . So to answer your question, I cycle because cars are simply too dull in comparison, and if I didn't ride my pedal bike I would have a much higher chance of being an organ donor on a motorbike. I've only ever ridden pillion once on a CBR, and rented a moped twice, I have promised my family I would never even think about getting on one again, I simply don't have the self control needed to stay alive on one.

[Stainy]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Anyone who rides motorbikes am sure 'gets it', but the difference is accidents on a motorbike bike will be at much higher speeds, I was doing 15mph when I fell off a few weeks ago, the potential for injury is so much lower.

I've ridden motorcycles for 40 years. I recognise the feelings you're describing, but I really don't 'get it' with a pedal cycle (and for the record, I've never been 'doored' which is weird reading this thread and being on a machine with a similar front cross section - anyone would think I was paying attention - that'll get a bite).
They're good for the environment, good for your health, but basically sh*t to be on - and if you've never ridden a 'proper' motorcycle, please don't try and put them into a similar category

On a more serious note; this is another example (think 20 mph zones and speed bumps) where Gov is legislating for idiots and tarring everyone in order to do it. Unfortunately, the ones they are trying to target will probably continue to be idiots and this will do little to improve safety or feelings between different groups.

Personally, I'm considerate of bike riders, as I am of pedestrians and horse riders. However, a good proportion of them don't help themselves by taking their own safety seriously (yesterday, I was on a National Limit Road with no pavement and a pedestrian was walking in the road with her back to me. Earlier in the month there were horse riders on the same road around blind bends- which is fine, but a driver only has to be able to stop within the distance they can see, so don't whine when they get closer than 5 metres - at speed - cos you didn't think your route through! )

I suppose we'll just keep legislating things tighter and tighter until we're back to red flags at the front of the car, cos common sense really isn't common.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I've had plenty of 'close' calls, but nearly all of them are related to me going quickly - apart from the nutter running a red light whilst stopped I've never once felt 'unsafe' on the roads.

I have hit the deck countless times though, twice in the last 18 months, and many times before that. Every time it was just me going too fast around the corner for the conditions. The scariest was probably some 10 years ago when I thought I was heading off a bridge but luckily some crash barriers saved my bacon!!!

Sounds like you are liability on the roads

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Anyone who rides motorbikes am sure 'gets it', but the difference is accidents on a motorbike bike will be at much higher speeds, I was doing 15mph when I fell off a few weeks ago, the potential for injury is so much lower.

Is this because your leathers saved your skin?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Cycling really isn't in the national psyche here, so trying to force co-operation and "awareness" isn't going to work.

On a personal note, I just don't get why (even with cycle lanes), anybody would willingly risk their life using a bike on the road, in the UK.

Plenty of off-road opportunities to exercise and surely that's more fun than just pounding the tarmac. Is being green worth the risk of permanent disability?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post and I'm simplifying/picking and choosing my arguments but it's what I think.

I'm a casual cyclist but very much prefer riding on tarmac to riding off road in any shape or form. I enjoy covering a good amount of distance and having all the senses engaged in a way that the same journey in a car doesn't even approach doing. Riding a nice 40-70 mile loop is a great way to exercise and destress.

Completely recognise your statement on risk, I never enjoy the first few miles of any ride, or the last few, they are the busy roads escaping from or returning to home. I've become much more risk-averse the last 2+ years and my cycling has dropped right off too. I now have no interest in a one hour ride that is largely busy roads.

I do look forward to a day when I have more time on my hands and can return to doing 2-4 hour rides.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Stainy

They're good for the environment, good for your health, but basically sh*t to be on - and if you've never ridden a 'proper' motorcycle, please don't try and put them into a similar category

Am sure you are right, I got told off by the direct access instructors for going too fast on a moped during a 'taster' event years back. The only other time I was on a powered 2 wheel machine was when I rented a moped in Corfu, apparently I overtook the owner of the rental shop around a blind corner and he was surprised I made it back to the rental shop without crashing. I've not been on anything powered with 2 wheels since - apart my eBike, which I've now fallen off on .

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Pentland

Sounds like you are liability on the roads

On 2 wheels, probably but only to my self. Zero points and zero at-fault accidents in car. On a bike though, I just loss all risk judgement interms of speed/safety, despite knowing this its very hard to modify my behavior.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Stainy

I suppose we'll just keep legislating things tighter and tighter until we're back to red flags at the front of the car, cos common sense really isn't common.

I agree and personally I think we've been on a slippery slope of legislating for the lowest common denominator for quite some time where traffic laws are concerned.

When I was a lad we had the Tufty Club (no laughing at the back!) and the Green Cross Code which together taught children the basics of how to cross the road safely. It really wasn't that difficult - and IMO still isn't - yet now we have a law which apparently gives pedestrians pretty much carte blanche to claim right of way over cars - seems the lunatics really are running the asylum.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by Stainy

I've never been 'doored' which is weird reading this thread and being on a machine with a similar front cross section - anyone would think I was paying attention - that'll get a bite).

I'll bite....

Motorbikes generally ride in the middle of the lane with the other motorised traffic where they can keep up, not at the side of the road. So the risk of being doored is considerably lower, no matter how much attention is being paid.

That's why the principle of "taking primary" in narrow lanes or at pinch point makes sense for someone on a pedal bike.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I agree and personally I think we've been on a slippery slope of legislating for the lowest common denominator for quite some time where traffic laws are concerned.

When I was a lad we had the Tufty Club (no laughing at the back!) and the Green Cross Code which together taught children the basics of how to cross the road safely. It really wasn't that difficult - and IMO still isn't - yet now we have a law which apparently gives pedestrians pretty much carte blanche to claim right of way over cars - seems the lunatics really are running the asylum.

Ah, good old Darth Vader, teaching the children of 70's Britain to cross the road without getting killed

[JR1664]

Therein lies one big problem. Frustrated motorists wondering why cyclists are taking primary when passing parked cars, completely unaware that it only takes one muppet to open a door and you're in casualty. You can almost feel the resentment building up behind you.

Likewise when they lay this loose gravel stuff on country lanes and roads. It always builds up on the side of the road so you have to avoid it which means you're basically in primary for no real reason as far as they're concerned. I hate that stuff, I'll avoid that route for a month or so until its all settled down.

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by Stainy

I've ridden motorcycles for 40 years. I recognise the feelings you're describing, but I really don't 'get it' with a pedal cycle (and for the record, I've never been 'doored' which is weird reading this thread and being on a machine with a similar front cross section - anyone would think I was paying attention - that'll get a bite).
They're good for the environment, good for your health, but basically sh*t to be on - and if you've never ridden a 'proper' motorcycle, please don't try and put them into a similar category

On what basis are they 'sh*te' exactly? I owned a CBR600F for a number of years, as well as Yamaha XT trail bike. They were both great fun, although in vary different ways. I also cycled at the time, and still do.

Your are correct in that they are not in any way in the same category, but I enjoy my morning ride, as much as a I did a motorbike ride, just in a different way.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Therein lies one big problem. Frustrated motorists wondering why cyclists are taking primary when passing parked cars, completely unaware that it only takes one muppet to open a door and you're in casualty. You can almost feel the resentment building up behind you.

Likewise when they lay this loose gravel stuff on country lanes and roads. It always builds up on the side of the road so you have to avoid it which means you're basically in primary for no real reason as far as they're concerned. I hate that stuff, I'll avoid that route for a month or so until its all settled down.

Likewise storm drains & potholes.

I once had a very heated argument with a driver when I had to swerve out into the road to avoid a water filled sunken drain in the dark on the way home from work. I know he got a bit of a fright as he was too close anyway, but he rolled down the window at the next set of lights and gave me very aggressive dog's abuse for 'swerving all over the road' as he saw it.

I politely asked him what would be the worst that could happen if he hit a pothole - burst tyre, damaged alloy? I also asked him what he thought the worst outcome would be for a cyclist hitting the same pothole. He looked a bit sheepish when I pointed out that for me it could mean serious injury or even death. When I suggested he might perhaps give cyclists a bit more room in future, he reverted to type and started shouting abuse, at which point I invited him to get out of the safety of his tin box to discuss the matter further. Needless to say he declined, and drove off....

[NanasBack]

:-

Total nonsense in my opinion.



1) If someone is opening a drivers door without looking, isn't there is as much chance of a car / van / lorry ripping it off, as there is a cyclist running into it?

2) Some people may only have one hand?

3) If image 1 is the new highway code, the cyclists in image 5 are already blatantly ignoring it!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Is there something sexually-suggestive about "the Dutch reach" or is it just me ?

Absolutely. Sounds like a chapter on the Karma Sutra.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by NanasBack

:-

Total nonsense in my opinion.

Attachment 2800125

1) If someone is opening a drivers door without looking, isn't there is as much chance of a car / van / lorry ripping it off, as there is a cyclist running into it?

2) Some people may only have one hand?

3) If image 1 is the new highway code, the cyclists in image 5 are already blatantly ignoring it!

All good for me except #5 sounds a bit insane, it's like green lighting cyclists to undertake.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by NanasBack

:-


1) If someone is opening a drivers door without looking, isn't there is as much chance of a car / van / lorry ripping it off, as there is a cyclist running into it?

Probably but you have more chance of seeing a car / van /lorry no matter how brief your check and they won't end up in hospital if you don't.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by JustChris

All good for me except #5 sounds a bit insane, it's like green lighting cyclists to undertake.

Sometimes these graphics are misleading.

S 72

Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

My guess its aimed at the left hookers who speed by cyclists on the approach to a left turn then cut across them. Not sure what the cyclist is doing on the offside of that vehicle hence I think its a another joey article.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Sometimes these graphics are misleading.

S 72

Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

My guess its aimed at the left hookers who speed by cyclists on the approach to a left turn then cut across them. Not sure what the cyclist is doing on the offside of that vehicle hence I think its a another joey article.

Ah makes sense yes.